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#41471 - 06/05/05 05:47 AM Gene Ward - Survival and Outdoor Safety
Craig_phx Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 715
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
I just got back from a 90-minute class with Gene Ward from Survival and Outdoor Safety SOS . He had a free class at Sportsman?s Warehouse in Goodyear, AZ.

Gene is a former Air Force Survival Instructor. I believe he taught in Panama and Hawaii. Gene is into complicated shelters with clear plastic sheeting, zip-ties, and duct tape. He had one sitting out front of Sportsman?s Warehouse. It was collapsed from a light wind. In fairness he was not able to tie it down on the concrete.

I got there a good 30 minutes late. He was talking about getting water from transpiration. Putting a clear plastic bag over a tree branch. I think he must have talked about shelters before I arrived. There were few questions from the audience. I asked him about using two mirrors for a target located away from the sun. He showed us how to use only one mirror. I dropped the second mirror from my PSK. He has neon orange gaffers tape. I don?t see where it is any stickier that duct tape. But it is highly visible. I wrote on it with my space pen and ran water on it and rubbed it. The text stayed nice and clear. I am replacing my notepad of Rite-in-the-rain paper, small roll of orange tape, and REI small roll of duct tape.

Gene makes a hand made, tin foil wrapped, hot liquid Vaseline cotton ball he sells. He said it is like a candle. How big the flame is depends on how much cotton you pull out. He said it could last up to an hour. He said he has about a half-ounce of Vaseline in there. He also sells a ferro rod with a pitch wood handle with a piece of hacksaw blade attached. The cotton ball is so saturated that his ferro rod won?t light it. He shaves some fat wood on the cotton ball to light it. In the store with no wind the flame from the fat wood barely got the cotton ball going. I showed him my Boy Scout Hot Spark and Altoids strips tin holding two Coghlan?s Emergency Tinder. The size difference was significant. His stuff has to be carried in a pack. Mine takes up little space in my pocket.

He had two knifes, an old model LeatherMan Wave and a red SAK with a saw. He said the saw was the most useful blade in a survival situation. He did not use the back of the saw on his ferro rod.

He sold several of his survival kits and kit items. I bought the gaffers tape and 4 of his large clear trash bags. I wanted to try them out and they are not available in stores.

While I was in Sportsman?s Warehouse they had the Doug Ritter?s PSK. They also had the mirror, Sparklite, and Fox 40 Howler as separate items for sale. I bought the Fox 40 Howler. There are 2 in the package for $6.50. What a deal! That is cheaper than buying 2 mini Fox 40s at Sports Authority. Replaced my cut down mini Fox 40 with the Howler in my pocket.

I?m glad I went!
<img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Thermo-regulate, hydrate and communicate.

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#41472 - 06/05/05 09:09 AM Re: Gene Ward - Survival and Outdoor Safety
Anonymous
Unregistered


I went to Gene Ward's paid 2 day seminar. It was an OK course. He claims to be a US Air Force Global Survival Instructor. Never heard of that. I do agree that his shelters are overly complicated and required a lot of cable ties. He does show how the bow drill works and can get most people in the class making fire. I was not impressed with his navigation skills or teaching ability in this area. In the class that I went to, he was asked some questions pertaining to the Southern Hemisphere and didn't seem to know the answer. I thought that it was strange for a "Global Survival Instructor" Also, his compass teaching seemed to generate more confusion than it helped. I'm alway skeptical when an expert is weak in an important area.

I learned to use a bow drill in the class so it was worth it for me in that regard.

S.

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#41473 - 06/05/05 06:29 PM Re: Gene Ward - Survival and Outdoor Safety
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
I have this recurring nightmare. I'm on a dayhike and somebody asks me ( expert) to demonstrate some deadfall or I.D. a LGB (little grey bird.) My strategy is to plead the need for a toilet break, run behind a big bush and shake it vigorously while quickly thumbing through my SAS GEM or Peterson field guide. We are all products of other's efforts. Gene Ward comes from the USAF, and remember an elephant is a mouse built to MILSPEC, ergo the complicated shelter. I recently co invented the Origami folded rock tarp deployment. NO, you won't see this as an addendum to the excellent tarp resource onsite. We were cold, stayed out later than we should have and the crowded canyon trailway anything but conductive to a geometric, textbook perfect tarp. Even I know enough not to tie paracord to Poison Sumac <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> We sort of wrapped it around us it like a Taco Bell Burrito made by a first day employee. I think 2 day courses are rediculous beyond very, very basic instruction. Instructors are under a great deal of peer pressure, competition and simple hubris to make everybody a 'snake eater' for $99.99 If you learn something new consider it time well spent. There are lots of instructors in AZ. My favourite Is Reevis Mountain School. It is a magical place and you have fun too.

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#41474 - 06/06/05 02:18 AM Re: Gene Ward - Survival and Outdoor Safety
Craig_phx Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 715
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
My family and I have been to several compass classes held by the Phoenix Park system. They also seem to make it complicated instead of making it simple and usable. I had my first compass class in the Army in 1973. They had us pace and learn how to take a bearing. We were then sent out in teams. We were given a paper with points, distances, and compass directions to the next point. It was big fun. Since then I have always had a Silva/Brunton base plate compass. I have taught my 4 boys how to use a compass. They would not let them have the compass until they could demonstrate how to use it. They had to tell the difference between true north and magnetic north. They had to set their compass to magnetic north and point to true north. They had to orient a map with the compass taking declination into account. Then they had to pretend they were at one point on a map and had to get to another point. They had to plot the compass direction on the map and then adjust their compass and point to the direction they would have to go taking declination into account. Once they did that I let them have the compass. They are all in Scouts.
<img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Thermo-regulate, hydrate and communicate.

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#41475 - 06/06/05 02:29 AM Re: Gene Ward - Survival and Outdoor Safety
Craig_phx Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 715
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
What? Their web site looks like happy hippie land??? Is it a survival school? <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Reevis Mountain School

OK. This looks better.

Survival Skills (at RMS)

When: May 5-9
Price: $168.00
This is a comprehensive desert skills event. Experience life on a working homestead in the mountains of the Superstition Wilderness while acquiring wilderness skills and nature awareness in a desert environment. Skills covered: wilderness healing of venomous bites and stings; rope and string made of natural fibers; bow & drill primitive fire making; knife sharpening; all natural emergency first aid; and so much more. Meet new friends, eat home grown food, enjoy evening campfires ? a unique, life enriching experience. Discuss preparedness for the years ahead. Four days.
_________________________
Thermo-regulate, hydrate and communicate.

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#41476 - 06/06/05 03:03 AM Re: Gene Ward - Survival and Outdoor Safety
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
I wonder if Gene Ward has anything to do with this:

http://www.globalprinciples.com/

BTW, does every single, solitary business in America HAVE to have a Mission Statement? How on earth did they get along without them for all those previous years? And why all the BS now? (grumble, grumble, mutter, mutter...)

Sue

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#41477 - 06/06/05 04:00 AM Re: Gene Ward - Survival and Outdoor Safety
NY RAT Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 256
Loc: brooklyn, ny
because in the past they just DID things instead of stacking mountains of papers and forms on things they would like to do.
_________________________
been gone so long im glad to be back

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#41478 - 06/06/05 04:54 AM Re: Gene Ward - Survival and Outdoor Safety
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
Reevis is very much a 'new Age' community. Peter and his staff are also very ethical, caring and knowledgeable. I first became aware of Reevis years ago when a friend attended. This chunkhead complained bitterly about no caffeine, guns and evening campfire chats about reincarnation. I could never teach this guy bowdrill firemaking. Peter succeeded in a few days. I figure an industry full of cammie clad snake eaters, born again furtrappers and 1/64th chippewa medicine men offering sweat lodge vision quest- native skills weekend seminars for $300 ( for another $50 you receive your animal guide and spirit name) can make room for Reevis. The location, staff and knowledge gained make you fervently hope there is reincarnation <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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#41479 - 06/06/05 04:42 PM Re: Gene Ward - Survival and Outdoor Safety
Craig_phx Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 715
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Gene said that water from transpiration does not require water treatment. I pointed out that you often end up with insects in the water. He came back with the fact that many people on the planet eat bugs. I have read that to eat bugs you need to cook them first to kill the bad bacteria they harbor. Anybody have thoughts on if you need to treat the water before you drink it? I asked Cody Lundin about water when he was at REI and he said right after a rainstorm when you find water pooling on rocks that you do not need to treat that water. Beyond that I suspect you need to treat all water if you can. I once saw Cody on TV say that if you find water and you cannot treat it to go ahead and drink it. You should be rescued within three days and you can get medical treatment for it when you get back.

Any thoughts on buggy water?
_________________________
Thermo-regulate, hydrate and communicate.

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#41480 - 06/06/05 05:16 PM Re: Gene Ward - Survival and Outdoor Safety
Craig_phx Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 715
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
I asked Gene if SAR looked for people at night. He did not know, but there was a SAR guy seated next to me. He said that they do often search at night. I asked if a strobe light would help them find the missing person. He said that would be very helpful. I don’t often see strobe lights mentioned in survival kits. I wonder if I should carry one.

Any thoughts?
_________________________
Thermo-regulate, hydrate and communicate.

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#41481 - 06/06/05 06:09 PM Re: Gene Ward - Survival and Outdoor Safety
GoatRider Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 835
Loc: Maple Grove, MN
I decided a strobe light was better than a flare gun for my flying survival kit. The batteries probably only last a couple hours though, so I only plan on turning it on when I think someones actually in the area, when I would typically use a flare.
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- Benton

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#41482 - 06/06/05 06:11 PM Re: Gene Ward - Survival and Outdoor Safety
GoatRider Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 835
Loc: Maple Grove, MN
Quote:
I asked Cody Lundin about water when he was at REI and he said right after a rainstorm when you find water pooling on rocks that you do not need to treat that water.

I'm not too sure about that. What if a bird had crapped on the rock?
_________________________
- Benton

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#41483 - 06/06/05 07:01 PM Re: Gene Ward - Survival and Outdoor Safety
Paul810 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 03/02/03
Posts: 1428
Loc: NJ, USA
All water found in nature should be treated if possible (even well water if you plan on drinking it, though I drank untreated well water all my life and I am ok, I think), if you don't have the stuff to treat it then drinking fresh rain water from rocks, dew gathered from leaves, ect carries less of a chance of making you sick then drinking, say, river water. Which is important because you don't want to get sick while you are trying to survive. There is always the risk of getting sick, you are just trying to lower your risk.

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#41484 - 06/06/05 07:22 PM Re: Gene Ward - Survival and Outdoor Safety
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
The main problems of pathogenic (disease producing) bacteria via ingestion from insect contaminated water would be the ones they would transmit by their contact with contaminated materials. Flies (and other insects) that land and feed off of the contaminated pile of fecal mater and then land on food and/or water you are about to ingest can easily transmit enteric pathogens. However, in a true survival situation, where you cannot treat/boil the water, risking an intestinal bout would be preferable to dying from dehydration. Even if you drink contaminated water, your personal health, genetic background, number of organisms and a whole host of other factors will all determine if you become ill.

Pete

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#41485 - 06/06/05 08:01 PM Re: Gene Ward - Survival and Outdoor Safety
brandtb Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/26/04
Posts: 512
Loc: S.E. Pennsylvania
I once got into a taxi in NYC and was handed a Mission Statement by the driver. As with a great many other business trends, the mission statement will run its course and be replaced with something else. Otherwise, there won't be any new editions in the Buz section at the bookstore.
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Univ of Saigon 68

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#41486 - 06/06/05 08:02 PM Re: Gene Ward - Survival and Outdoor Safety
brandtb Offline
Addict

Registered: 11/26/04
Posts: 512
Loc: S.E. Pennsylvania
Tell us more about the single mirror thing.
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Univ of Saigon 68

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#41487 - 06/06/05 08:18 PM Re: Gene Ward - Survival and Outdoor Safety
brian Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1468
Loc: Texas
My personal opinion... If you can treat it then you absolutely should. If you cannot treat it then you absolutely should still drink it.
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Learn to improvise everything.

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#41488 - 06/06/05 08:55 PM Re: Gene Ward - Survival and Outdoor Safety
Craig_phx Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 715
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
OK

The glass signal mirrors reflect more light than most of the plastic mirrors. The Ritter PSK mirror is an exception. However, all the plastic mirrors scratch easily compared to the glass mirrors. The flip side is if you drop a plastic mirror it is not going to break like a glass mirror. You will have about 30 seconds to deploy your mirror if you see an aircraft. If you have the large glass mirror you are not likely keep it around your neck because it is big and heavy.

A true signal mirror has a sighting gauze in the center hole that shows a fireball of light where the reflection will shine. To use this type of signal mirror first face the sun. Tilt the mirror so the reflection is just in front of you. Now move the mirror to your eye while looking where the reflection is. You should see the fireball in the mirror. Now you can tilt the mirror and place the fireball where you want the mirror to shine.

The problem is that if your face or hand blocks the sun on the mirror then the fireball disappears. To make a reflection 180 degrees from facing the sun is no problem. I had taken a survival class with the Phoenix Park system and the park ranger had us use two mirrors to reflect light to a point beyond the 180 degrees. To do that you face away from the sun and hold one mirror in front of you, over your head, and shine the light onto your chest. Then put your signal mirror up to your eye and tilt the mirror above your head onto the signal mirror and you can now signal objects in the opposite direction from the sun. It is had to keep the reflection on your signal mirror from the reflection of the other mirror. The Park Ranger was making it a two person exercise. One person held the mirror while the other used the signal mirror. This was a Cluster Foxtrot, as we use to say in the army.

So Gene show how if you face the sun and then when you turn keep the mirror on the eye that is closest to the sun and use the right hand for the left eye and the left hand for the right eye. That way your face and hand do not block the light. I tried it at home and was able to reflect the light straight away from the sun, up, and down. So I don?t need the second mirror or a second person holding one. I am able to do a 360 degree sweep of the horizon with only one mirror.

It works! Give it a try.

<img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Thermo-regulate, hydrate and communicate.

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#41489 - 06/06/05 09:06 PM Re: Gene Ward - Survival and Outdoor Safety
Craig_phx Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 715
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Here in the desert I would hate to get diarrhea from bad drinking water. That would make me more dehydrated. I have Amodium AD in my first-aid kit for that reason. I also suspect that it would take force to keep me from drinking any water once I was seriously dehydrated. I know my body would say: I don?t care, just drink.
<img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Thermo-regulate, hydrate and communicate.

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#41490 - 06/06/05 09:34 PM Re: Gene Ward - Survival and Outdoor Safety
Craig_phx Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 04/05/05
Posts: 715
Loc: Phoenix, AZ
Two last Air Force comments:

Gene said that pilots have been taught to use their parachute to make a shelter for years. But no pilot has ever used their parachute to make a shelter. I have a survival video of hunters using pieces of parachute to make a shelter and used as a blanket. It must be good stuff.

From interviewing POWs they learned that the men who had a will to survive, survived. The men that did not have something to stay alive for, died. He said is did not seem to make a difference if they were big and strong or small and in poor health.

Gene said if you think you are lost to stop and take a sip of water. He said it helps to clear your mind.
_________________________
Thermo-regulate, hydrate and communicate.

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#41491 - 06/06/05 09:55 PM small strobe, Re: Gene Ward
Anonymous
Unregistered


why not? If you are looking for a minimalist strobe, County Com has one the size of a watch. I'm thinking of getting one in a few weeks.

As for battery life, they say 120 hours (5 days continous) for the flashing mode. And since it uses two large coin batteries, a spare set is about the size of two half dollars on top of eachother. Can't go wrong with those specs, even if the side-view range is under a mile.

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#41492 - 06/06/05 10:17 PM Re: Gene Ward - Survival and Outdoor Safety
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
I can make arguments for treating any and all water. Even rain water can carry various chemical pollutants and some rocks surfaces dissolve chemical nasties. I know of one geologist who I.D.ed minerals by licking the samples, until one produced a major reaction and he almost required an emergency trach to breathe. But these are truly small concerns and again, hydration takes precedence over possible contamination. Remember the latin american proverb " when the dog is dead the fleas will leave." On your post re: Strobe lights: review Doug's article. They have limits like all tools but are usefull. If you, or anyone else meets Gene again please extend an invitation to the website. We may disagree on various details, but he seems sincere and we can learn from each other. ETS isn't some ivory tower with a gold roof that everyone needs to postrate before at sunrise. Actually, it's more like garbage bags held together with duct tape <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

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#41493 - 06/07/05 04:50 PM Re: small strobe, Re: Gene Ward
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
If they are the same ones I bought a while ago from CC a while ago, neat toys, smaller than a dime. I would not depend upon them to be seen from very far or as a replacement for a true survival strobe. They may have a greater distance of observance on a very very dark night or if night vision devices are being used in the search. They are the same LED flashers that are sold as novelty items that teens use at raves for bellybuttons and clothing.

Pete

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#41494 - 06/07/05 04:58 PM Re: Gene Ward - Survival and Outdoor Safety
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
Chris, the only problem with treating water for the removal of chemical contaminates, the standard microbial-cidal additives or boiling will not remove them. Only, activated charcoal filters, distillation and they is one chemical product that will chelate some chemical contaminants, will work to remove those agents.

Pete

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#41495 - 06/08/05 06:49 PM Re: small strobe, Re: Gene Ward
Brangdon Offline
Veteran

Registered: 12/12/04
Posts: 1204
Loc: Nottingham, UK
That sounds comparable to the flashing modes of the Photon Freedom keychain LED.
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Quality is addictive.

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