Hi back.
Thanks for the info on the subway cars...I knew the general facts, but it's good to see the system broken down like that. Also, very nice to hear about the rubber gaskets and that they could be pushed out. Wondering if there's a way to open the end doors from the outside on those cars (mostly thinking of the F)? Lots of people would not be able to squeeze out those windows (I think it would be tricky without help even if you fit).
And I understand the third rail info loud and clear.
I was in the subway when the blackout occurred - very luckily, aboveground, so we had daylight, could see around us, some could get cell reception, I could hear on my radio the news reports as the extent of the outage was more fully reported...but being underground would have been really terrible, especially in summer in a rush hour packed car (can you imagine being stuck in the Lex line like that?)
Even aboveground, we were in the car for 45 minutes before they decided to evacuate us, and even with the last car still being in direct contact with the platform, it took a LONG time for everyone to file through the train and out to the platform. People were mostly patient and polite, but overcrowding/heat/darkness/no info would REALLY change that dynamic, I think. That's the first time I started considering how else to get out of the car...and decided I needed to have some water on me always.

Brangdon: the first car info might work for regular trains, but there's no single engine car on the NYC subways...each car has electric-powered wheels, all power mechanisms under the chassis. Also, there are no hammers or other safety devices/tools aboard...just a pull cord for the emergency brake at each end of a car.

Dave

I can't imagine cutting up a couple of dozen bandages and slings with the tiny scissors on a multitool--not if I had a knife blade available anyway. And for cutting away clothing the sheepsfoot-type blade on the multitool would be far superior to scissors as well. I agree that for a subway incident the multitool would most likely be a little more useful than a larger folder, but as they say: "that's why I carry both." <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I looked at the CS4 and liked it, but I decided that for my purposes (rural, suburban, and wilderness rather than urban), the KF4 would be better for me. It really came down to the scissors vs. the awl. You really can't go wrong with either one.

Regards, Vince

>>Wondering if there's a way to open the end doors from the outside on those cars (mostly thinking of the F)? Lots of people would not be able to squeeze out those windows (I think it would be tricky without help even if you fit).<<

I *believe* that the end doors can be opened from the outside, once the window is knocked out, but I haven't tried it myself so I'm not sure. Again, it's only on the 75-foot cars that the end doors are locked - the F line mostly used 75' R46's, but also runs some 60' R32's (The R32's are the ones with the corrugated metal all the way up and down the sides and the route designation directly above the end door; the R46's have the LED signs on the sides and six metal stripes in two groups of three on the sides.)

In any event, it's a good incentive to stay in shape so I can climb out through the window just in case <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Some of the people trapped underground were stuck there for over 2 hours, from reports I've heard. Temperatures were often in excess of 90 degrees, the trains were completely dark, aside from any lighting carried by passengers or crew, many of the trains were crowded (SRO or worse), including children, the elderly, and physically ill or pregnant women in a few cases. No cell phone service or radio reception of any kind for the most part, no PA announcements, other than an occasional walkthrough by a TA employee, who usually didn't know much more than any of the passengers on the train.

Completely unacceptable. Yes, it's an exigent circumstance, but there is absolutely no reason why it had to be like that.

Wow I had no idea that there is that much of a difference when smoke is a factor. Do some lights really cut through smoke *alot* better than others? Maybe I should dust off my old CPF login and pose this question over there for details?

Thanks; it's always interesting to hear divergent views . The Vic Spirit is the only multitool I know of with a blunt-ended sheeps-foot blade. The blade on the CS4 I actually carry is rather more pointy than I'd like near my skin. Ditto the RSK. If I have to use a reaonable amount of force, I'd prefer scissors. Especially if it is some stranger about to use it on me <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

The CS4 has both scissors and awl (and wood saw). The main thing you give up is the file/metal saw.

If the CS4 has an awl then I would find that mildly annoying, as Leatherman doesn't list it as one of its features:

http://www.leatherman.com/products/tools/cs4/default.asp

I'm not sure that I would not have opted for the file over the scissors anyway, but it's nice to have the correct information before buying!

Regards, Vince

Edit: The awl IS listed in the descriptive paragraph below where the features are listed. Thanks for the correction!

>>Would a Res-Q-me escape tool be useful for escape from a subway car?<<

Probably not, as most train windows are made from Plexiglas or similar materials, and many also have layers of sticky material over them, so that when vandals try to scratch the windows with keys or whatever they have on hand (scratchiti) it just gums up, and the layers can be replaced. Besides, if the windows could be shattered that easily, the vandals would be doing that every night.

Some of the windows are designed to pop out, with rubber gaskets around the edges. And the end doors are usually unlocked, except in the cases noted above (on the longer cars for safety reasons, at the train ends, and past the conductor's position in the middle of the train if the conductor has a full-width cab)

>>("THANK GOD! I DEMAND that you arrest me and get me out of here!")<<

That would have been my thought had I been trapped in the blackout - even jail can't be much worse than that train!

>>Do compasses work in subway tunnels (with the metal tracks)?<<

a. I'm not sure but I will try.

b. Not that it makes much of a difference anyway - if you know where you're going in the train, you know about which way the train is facing, so finding direction below ground isn't that hard.

A compass is most useful when you emerge from below - sometimes the stairs wrap around a few times or you go through turns in the mezzanine and it's easy to lose track of where you're facing when you emerge.

>>Do ham radios work underground?<<

In the underround sections (most of Manhattan, the under-river tunnels, and some of the lines in Brooklyn and Queens), no. The tunnels are surrounded by metal on all sides.

Then there are lines that run in open cuts (trenches) where utility is limited to nearby contacts within reasonable line-of-sight, and embankment/elevated lines where ham radio, and cell phones as well, work just fine. These are mostly found in the outer boroughs.

In the underground portions of the NYC subway system, and much of the open cut portions, cell phones don't work either, although there are some other transit systems where cell phone repeaters have been installed in the tunnels so at least one service works.

That said, on the subway portions, if you pump 5W into a reasonably high-gain antenna, you can certainly reach other people on the train, and possibly someone not too far away on the surface, but I haven't done any systematic experimentation to find out. As for hitting a repeater, unless it were literally right above you, I'd highly doubt it and even then it's not likely.

One experiment I have done involved the N line in brooklyn, which runs in an uncovered trench. From inside the train, I couldn't reach a guy who was about half a mile away on one of the station platforms, this running 5W on 2 meters into a nearly full-size 1/4 wave vertical. I could reach a nearby repeater and pick up broadcast stations, however - it's all about line of sight.

About the most useful a ham transceiver, at least in the underground parts, would be is to pick up Transit communications - they have a system of repeaters in the tunnels. Theoretically, if one knew the input frequencies and the PL tones, and modified the radio to transmit out-of-band, one could talk to them as well, in a dire emergency.

Thanks for the info, Physics137! I've never been in a subway, have just seen them on tv. Raised in CA, I just don't like being underground for anything.

Sue

I know a lot of people who don't like riding the subway, but after trying to find parking in the city for a couple months and getting tickets every so often, or spending 2 hours on the bus trying to go 3 miles, you start to sing a different tune...

I would definately prefer scissors as well--but full-sized ones, not those itty-bitty multitool variations. But your comments on the serrated blade got me thinking. I think that the serrated sheepsfoot blade as is would be at least marginally safer for cutting away clothing than either the straight blade on the Juice or the Ritter. But after grinding off the tip and maybe the first 3/16" or so of the edge I think it would be quite a bit safer. In two years of carry I've never used the serrated blade on my Wave for anything anyway so it's not like I'll be losing much.

Now I just have to get up the guts to shove my brand-new toy up against a grinding wheel. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Regards, Vince