#40480 - 05/09/05 01:09 PM
Re: Taurus destroying Smith & Wesson, Clintons fau
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Veteran
Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1468
Loc: Texas
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IMHO copper is about a million times easier to completely remove from the barrel than lead. Granted on a on 2" snubbing with typical rifling it's not so bad but on many other types of firearms removing lead is a major pain. Barrel length and type of rifling of course are the major factors in how hard it is to remove debris but overall copper is easier to remove on any firearm. Yes, lead is softer than copper which is exactly the problem. The way I understand it, that is the reason why lead leaves behind 10 times more debris than copper to begin with.
_________________________
Learn to improvise everything.
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#40481 - 05/09/05 04:47 PM
Re: To lead or not to lead, that is the question..
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Veteran
Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 1272
Loc: Upper Mississippi River Valley...
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Brian,
I don't question what your experience has been, but mine is quite different than yours.
I fire many thousands of rounds a year that use lead alloy bullets. Some are plain base and some are gas checked. I have never had problems with lead build-up; what little there is cleans out as easy or easier than copper fouling (I don't normally use the same solvent for copper as I do for lead unless I'm anticipating needing to clean afield, in which case I use an effective multi-purpose bore cleaner). Typically the velocities are relatively high. Several hundred of these regularly fired lead bullet rounds are fired through rifles ranging from 6.5mm to 458 at velocities over 2,000 fps and a little higher (depending on caliber). Bullet designs are all to suit me, with some having as few as one lube grove and some Loveren-designed with more grease grooves than I care to count. Again, I have never experienced leading.
Over the years I have seen badly leaded pistols and helped clean some of them. Hot loads with swaged bullets (soft alloy) were the most frequent culprit and swaged half-jacketed bullets were the other culprit (also hot loads and also soft lead)
I either cast my own or use commercial hard cast bullets, depending on my whim, how the stockpile is, and how much time I have available to reload. I only use fairly hard lead alloys, regardless. I have not found any bullet lube clearly superior to any other in any aspect and normally just use an ordinary Alox bullet lube.
I also shoot plenty of jacketed bullets - plain and moly - in all the calibers and firearms that I use cast bullets in. There are some cautions I could mention, but frankly, shooting moly coated bullets (I do my own coating) thru a moly-conditioned bore is the most effortless cleaning imaginable in my experience - not to mention seriously extending the interval between accuracy-driven cleanings when I'm putting several hundred rounds thru a rifle in one day. YMMV, and there are some potential downsides to moly bullets.
I'm suggesting that jacketed vs cast is not really a polarizing question with black and white answers.
Regards,
Tom
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#40484 - 05/11/05 06:01 AM
Re: Taurus destroying Smith & Wesson, Clintons fau
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old hand
Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 384
Loc: USA
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Martin,
Thanks for reminding us of an important point. Unjacketed bullets should not be shot in guns with polygonal rifling. They are susceptible to heavy leading and consequent catastrophically heavy pressures. AFAIK, Glock, and Heckler & Kock are the only pistol manufacturers using polygonal rifling instead of the conventional groves and lands.
I suspect a lot of us with only conventionally rifled pistols tend to forget about that limitation.
John
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#40485 - 05/11/05 05:40 PM
Re: Taurus destroying Smith & Wesson, Clintons fau
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Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 1224
Loc: Milwaukee, WI USA
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Johnbaker:
I thought polygonal rifling was a smoother process than button, broach, or hammer barreled rifling.
Why would it be more prone to lead build up unless the rifling is not gripping the bullets and the bullets are skidding down the bore?
If that is the case, than the bullets are not gettiing a good spin imparted on them for better flight stability.
Bountyhunter
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#40486 - 05/12/05 07:35 AM
Re: Taurus destroying Smith & Wesson, Clintons fau
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old hand
Registered: 01/17/02
Posts: 384
Loc: USA
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Bounty,
That's a great question, but I really don't know the reason why lead bullets lead to danger in polygonally rifled guns. I have several surmises, but that is all they are.
Maybe somebody else can the mechanism.
Incidentally, thanks for reminding me to check on the availability of long arms in .32 H&R Mag. I have been planning on getting one, but became distracted.
John
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