I am a private pilot based in Wisconsin. I am part owner of a Cirrus Design SR22 4 seat airplane, the one with the whole airframe parachute. For most of our longer trips there will be 1 to two people in the plane. Rarely will there be 3. 4 people would be highly unlikely for weight reasons. This year we will be expanding our flight profile to include flights over the Rockies to destinations in Arizona, Nevada, and New Mexico. In addition we would like to reduce flight times for other trips by flying over the Great Lakes (Michigan and Superior in particular) instead of around them. These changes provide some obvious survival challenges. I have done a lot of reading on equipped.org and have come down to the following list (not all inclusive) of equipment:

+ Winslow Super Light Island Flyer Plus (including insulated floor and other options)
+ Switlik HV-35C Helicopter Crew Life Vests (for pilot and front seat passenger)
+ Switlik HV-35P Helicopter Passenger Life Vests (for back seat passengers if any)
+ ACR Aerofix 406 GPS I/O PLB
+ Wiggy Ultima Thule FTRSS Sleeping Bags (2) (will zip them together if more than 2 people)
+ Bibler Bombshelter Tent

I also want to get immersion/exposure suits. I know Equipped.org prefers Multifabs suits. What particular model would be best for our situation? Does anyone have a ball park cost per suit?

I would also welcome comments on the above list and suggestions for changes or other items...

--Galvin

Welcome to the forum. I'm in a flying club in MN that has an SR-20, and if I loaded all that crap, I would be able to take my wife, but probably not much luggage. But then again, an SR-20 won't make it over any serious mountains. But it's stll a real nice plane.

One thing that's occurred to me is that if I have to "land out", and I didnt' have to use the chute, I'd consider deploying it if I needed a supply of cord or tenting material, especially if the plane was totalled. Keep that in mind when packing survival gear.

Useful load left after me, my wife, and full fuel is about 167lb. So weight is an issue, of course, and I would taylor what I brought to the terrain we were going over.

Winslow Life Raft = 41lb
ACR PLB = 1lb
Bibler Tent = 9lb
Switlik HV-35C @ 3lb = 12lb
Wiggy's FTRSS @ 9lb = 18lb

Total so far = 81lb

--Galvin

First off, I am not a pilot and have never been a passenger. (probably never will) I also am new to exposure suits. I only know what I have read here.

I do have a question. Wouldn't you have to be wearing the exposure suits during flight for them to be useful?

Going off what what Goatrider said, I would consider picking up one of the Air Force survival manuals. It discusses how to make various shelters out of a parachute. Of course, using the aircraft's chute will make much bigger shelters than the ones displayed in the book. Could be useful for making a 2 person shelter, but you don't want to make them too big.

Another thing to remember is that for one reason or another you may only be able to make it out of the plane with what you are wearing. I would consider going down to the surplus store and picking up a military flight suit, they have a lot of pockets for storing useful stuff. You could also get a vest of some kind for storing additional items. (Get flight suits and vests for both you and your wife) Load up the flight suits and vests with suvival essentials. Beyond that I would try and limit your additional survival gear to a daypack (maybe 2, 1 for you and 1 for the wife) filled with a first aid kit, water, shelter, and food.


Robert

Yes you would have to be wearing them during the flight. So fo a flight over Lake Michigan we would have a life raft and PLB on board and we would be wearing exposure suits.

--Galvin

Is the "Land Shark" a viable alternative for an exposure suit in warmer climates?

Would it work for the cold waters of the great lakes if you have regular insulating clothes on when you ditch?

Is there any data on how hard it is to don a "Land Shark: while in the water?

Bountyhunter

Galvin, I'm a pilot in British Columbia. I think you would be wise to dispense with the tent unless you plan on going down in a camp ground. If you go down in the mountains, I can almost guarantee you will not find a suitable spot to pitch a tent. You'd be better with one or two Siltarps by Integral Design. They are super light weight fabric tarps that you can make skelter with, no matter what type of terrain you are in. A Siltarp and 100 feet of paracord would be a about 8 pounds lighter lighter and a lot more practical.

I'd also carry and axe or hatchet, a couple of good knives, multiple firemaking devices and tons of warm clothing. In the Rockies, even as low as 8,000 feet, the nights can be well below freezing during the summer.

Build your mountain survival kit around survival for at least a week. If you go down in the Rockies in bad weather it could be that long before any aircraft can fly. When it really socks in, even if SAR knows where you are, they won't be able to get to you.

Doug is on the road, but you may want his direct expertise. Email him a line asking to respond here. The caveat with an exposure suit is wearability in the aircraft. These things keep you alive in the water. In normal conditions you will easily become overheated and uncomfortable. You are assembling real world, premium kit here. You will need to become a premium user with their real world parameters too.

Check this out (air race survival on this site) http://www.equipped.org/simon_t.htm

This guy has to fly over mountains, bodies of water, and deserts throughout his flight, so it's pretty similar. Doug does a really good job packing things down to something small enough to fit into a seat.

I agree you should make use of your aircraft's ballistic parachute if you ever go down. The parachute and shroud lines are your friend in the mountains or deserts. As mentioned, refer to USAF survival manuals to learn how to make use of them.

As far a seperate shelter is concerned, you probably don't need one (with the exception of an emergency water landing). You have your parachute, and you also have the cabin of your aircraft, which is better than any tent assuming it's intact and safe to stay (not burning, etc).

While others may say you don't need separate shelter, please consider that if you go down in the mountains, your airplane may reach the ground but your parachute will probably be hung up in trees 30 or 40 feet over your head. And don't expect the aircraft to provide shelter. It will most likely be leaking fuel and pitched at an unuseable angle once it hits the ground. And, aluminum is not a great shelter even in the best of times. It gets very cold, very quickly.

SR-22 is composite, not aluminum. But most of your points are valid.

I stand corrected

What if we go down in the desert? Would the Siltarp still be the way to go?

Thanks for all the good advice.

What do people think about firearms as survival equipment? I received a Springfield Armory M6 Scout, dual shot 410 shotgun and .22 Hornet rifle, as a gift a few years ago. That is one of the items I have been thinking about including for trips west of Wisconsin.

--Galvin

The M6 is a fine survival rifle/shotgun combo. It's very capable of taking game to fill the pot and light defensive roles. My .22LR/410 M6 rides in my truck full time. If I had a plane, another would be there...

M

I guess I didn't put my question right.

It was answered here:



I would think it would become a hindrance while in flight. Someone else may be able to answer this (for my own knowledge <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />), but would the suit make it harder to get out of the plane?

I am sorry for not saying this earlier, and for what it?s worth, it sounds like a good idea!

FWIW, this is the first time I have heard of someone having the plane with the whole airframe parachute. I have only seen pictures from when it was introduced.

Though I've never flown the Atlantic via Greenland, I know it's common for ferry pilots to wear a survival suit on the flight over water. There's just no way you'd be able to don a survival suit in the cramped quarters of an airplane cockpit. They usually wear them half on, with their legs in the lower portion, but not their arms in the upper part. I think wearing a fully donned survival suit in flight would be way too hot for comfort.

OK, just to set the record straight, here's a quick "Exposure Suit 101:"

There are primarily two types of exposure/immersion suits commonly used in General Aviation. The least expensive old-fashioned kind are SOLAS approved marine types made of inherently buoyant closed-cell neoprene foam designed for emergency use in the Commercial Maritime environment. They are very loose fitting to be able to be quickly donned over clothing For an example see: https://www.stearnsinc.com/NC_ProductsList.aspx?selection=3&CategoryID=4504549 These are bulky and very hot to wear out of the water and, thus as noted, are typically worn with the top down around the waist and you finish donning them when needed in a ditching emergency (easier said than done, but it works, most of the time). The closed-cell foam also serves as the insulation. Being so bulky and inherently buoyant, they can present egress problems, as well as problems getting into a life raft, but they have saved many lives. I don't recommend these, but they do work.

The other style of exposure suit is a modern Gore-Tex exposure suit modeled on a traditional flight suit. Originally designed for the military, this is what fighter pilots wear flying over colder waters, what the USCG helo crews wear, etc. They are designed to be worn just like a flight suit and being Gore-Tex do breath and are reasonably comfortable. They do require you to wear additional insulation, which can be tailored to the temperature of water being flown over, all they do is keep you dry. They also require a life vest as they are not inherently buoyant. See: http://www.multifabs-survival.co.uk/products.cfm or http://www.switlik.com/pdf/u_zip_it_brochure.pdf . This is the type suit I recommend.

Class dismissed...