Does anyone know if satellites really monitor for triangular pattern S.O.S. fires.

If so, how far apart do the fires have to be and how large?

Bountyhunter

I would be very much inclined to doubt it. To monitor something like that by eye would be like looking for a single needle in all the haystacks in Montana. To perform an automated search you would have to (a) find a way for a computer to recognize a fire on a satellite image and (b) figure out a way to tell if three fires on a satellite image were related in some way. The computing power to process this search would be horrendous and would be much better spent on other resources.

Theres an urban legend with the black helicopter crowd. As it goes, somebody is camping back of beyond and federal agents respond to their fire tracked by satelite, fly out and interrogate them about their activities. In reality, thats alot of boyscouts or natural fires in their infancy for even the area 51 Saucers to investigate. People have been questioned yes: usually camping in known marijuana growing backcountry areas or near sensitive government installations. I once evicted a transient from our seasonal observation tower in Oregon. I wasn't off the 3 story stairwell but every bar in town was talking about a russian fishing fleet spy being caught.

Well you know what they say; "If you don't ask, you'll never know".

Thanks for the reponse.

Now instead of lighting a triangular fire, one can build a single fire and dine Peruvian soccer ball team style. <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Bountyhunter <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

In other words, do "they" care?. In todays profit hungry commercial world I think the individual would have to pay a very high price for such a service.
Can it be done? ...yes. Will it be done for all? ...No.

The issue to me isn't whether "they" care enough to spend *my* taxpayer's dollars on a fool's errand; it's whether those tax dollars can be spent more effectively on saving lives in some other fashion.

I know we have some pilots on these boards. Is there an official procedure to follow if you should happen to spot 3 fires while in flight? If so, do you think most pilots would report such a thing?

Thanks, Vince

I suspect most General Aviation pilots (who fly mainly for recreation or a hobby) wouldn't know what it meant, although I'm pretty sure we're supposed to. Assuming the pilot knew what it meant, they would most likely make a note of the position and radio in a distress call to whatever Air Traffic Control entity they were in communication with. If unable to communicate directly with ATC, I would feel duty bound to report it as soon as possible, even if it meant diverting my flight to a different location (e.g. returning to my point of departure rather than continuing on to my secluded cabin by the lake).

I'm inclined to think that 3 fires in a triangle on the ground are unlikely to be noticed by a pilot in the air unless (a) the fires are accompanied by a lot of smoke (burn lots of green, slightly damp material) or (b) the pilots are specifically looking for a downed aircraft or missing person(s). But, as Chris Kavanaugh's experience (documented elsewhere on this website) shows, some commercial pilots are heads-up enough to spot it and realize what it means even if there are no missing persons reported.

After all, you don't need "most" pilots to report it, you just need one. <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

There is a whole section on visual signals for downed aircraft in the AIM (Airman's Information Manual), ranging from hand/body signals to ground markers. But 3 fires is not mentioned. It does mention that if you spot a downed aircraft, to "transmit the information to the nearest FAA or other appropriate radio facility". There are always several frequencies you can call in on for assistance, I'd start with the universal emergency frequency, 121.5 mHz.

By the way, the "require assistance" ground signal is a "V", made with any material available, at least 10 feet or larger. An "X" means "require medical assistance", although I'd be careful with that one, since a "yellow cross" means the crash has already been reported and identified.

"But 3 fires is not mentioned."

This is interesting. I had always assumed that if I am in the wilderness and I desire rescue, then I should make three large piles of wood (assuming such fuel is available) and light it if a plane flies by overhead. At night they would (hopefully) see the three bonfires and during the day they would see the three columns of smoke. I had understood you should always augment the smoke with rubber, plastic, or anything else that would make it thicker and blacker.

Is this a wasted effort then? Obviously, if there are search planes out looking for you (as a result of a plane crash) then they are going to be looking for signals like this. But if you are a lost hiker, for example, will igniting three large piles of firewood simply be a waste of time?

I guess the question is this: if you (pilot, co-pilot, navigator, stewardess, or passenger) were to spot 3 fires at night, or 3 columns of smoke during the day, would you report it to anyone? And if you did, would anything be done about it?

Maybe PLB's are worth the money after all.

Regards, Vince

I hadn't heard about the 3 fires thing until I started studying survival. Never heard about it in my pilot training.

I seem to remember it being briefly mentioned in my Canadian pilot training. But, if you go down in the bush, or get lost hiking, nobody is going to be able to discern 3 distinct fires from the air unless they are a long distance apart. Having said that, when flying over uninhabited country, any fire stands out for miles. A signal mirror combined with a fire would be very effective. At nignt, a hand held strobe would be your best bet as smoke is almost impossible to see in the dark from the air.

Your best bet for being found is to make sure you file an accurate flight plan or hikng plan with the appropriate authorities or a trusted friend who will alert the authorities if you fail to return. Up here in Canada, if someone is missing in the bush or a plane is down, pilots are alerted to that fact in their flight service weather briefing. If pilots know somebody is missing down there, they'll be watching very carefully over the area. If you can't make fire, you must get out into an open area...from the air, it's almost impossible to see through the tree canopy.