Let's start a discussion/rant about knives. Premise 1) a single knife (knife blade only, forget multitools and SAKs for this argument)for camping and survival. 2)not combat, hand-to-hand, survivalism.
..>> Here's my argument:
1) A small to mid size folder like the Ritter Benchmade
2) Locking
3) Any blade configuration you like, as long as it is a folder!
So Let's argue this point:
FIXED BLADE KNIVES, particularly the larger ones, MAKE NO SENSE AND OFFER NO ADVANTAGE (quick.. duck.. here comes a rant).
In a survival situation (not homesteading) you don't need more than a good folder.You're going to burn up more energy than you need to expend hacking at sticks and limbs any bigger than you could break over your knee. You're going to increase the chances of an injury. You're not going to dig holes or mine copper with your fixed blade, anyway. Just "mostly whittle" if you're smart/careful.

Aside from the observation that they look cool (I own many premium custom fixed blade knives, so I'm not underendowed.. in that arena...), tell me something you need a fixed blade knife for in the camping/survival situation.. that couldn't be done with the folder..that should be done in a camping/survival situation. "Should be done" as in.. let's not build suspension bridges or log cabins..

Hi

I have a SAK with a locking blade.

But, I just can't relax with folding knives because I don't have a firm grip on the blade's shaft/handle/extension. . . Every cutting/sawing action puts a bending force on the folding blade, so imagine cutting through a hard/rough material in the wet and when it's freezing and in panic . . .

I agree.

I myself am trying to be prepared for a relatively short survival duration. Maybe 3-4 days. I'm not planning on building a log cabin, nor do I need to snare and prep food (Lord knows I have enough "stored reserves").

My biggest worries are keeping healthy and sheltered, finding some water, and making sure I can get found quickly.

Last night I was reading the bonus material that comes with Doug's PSP. Good reading. If you haven't read it, then I recommend you do so. It can be found at the ETS PSP description page.

I once posted the question of why such a large fixed blade is needed in a survival situation and was told that it was needed to chop/split wood in order to get to dry inner wood (assuming the outter wood was wet).

I've camped for a looong time and never failed to find some dry wood for starting fires - usually deadwood still on trees near the trunk.

The one thing I have missed while using my Rittergrip is the awl that I have on my good old Boy Scout pocketknife. I found I used it a lot for poking holes in things. Not a very big deal. Though I haven't tried it yet - mostly for fear of ruining it - I always figured the tweezers in Doug's PSP could be used for a similar purpose.

Another thing not too often mentioned is the weight of the knife. Before I bought the Rittergrip I bought a Buck Alpha Hunter. While a fine knife, it is just too darn heavy to haul around with me without pulling my pants down (which leads to other social and physical issues). I very much appreciate lightweight knives. Just this morning I picked up the Rittergrip and tossed it in the air a few times (while closed) just to marvel at how light that big blade really is.

I also don't need a 1/4" thick blade. If I'm forcing my Rittergrip blade so hard that it is bending then (1) I am putting myself in danger of a real nasty injury, (2) I'm risking damaging a very important tool, and (3) I am not conserving vital energy.

I think your position makes a lot of sense; however, you state: "...forget multitools and SAKs for this argument..." . Now this is your thread and you make the rules, but I find that when I follow your argument to its natural conclusion, then it leads me inexorably to my Leatherman Wave rather than a plain folder.

Now if you want to kick me out of the discussion I will understand. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Regards, Vince

NAro:

In the urban world of Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA, I am limited to a maximum blade length of 3" and a folding type knife. I would prefer a maximum of 4" and a folding type knife.

In the "rural, outback, lower 40, woods, sticks, hunting & camping grounds, etc." I prefer a fixed blade knife with a hilt at least on the cutting side, of at least a 4" up to 6" slightly swept blade (For skinning.), beyond which I do not see any large advantages to and a folder of 4" with a lanyard ring and lanyard attached to my belt.

The preference for a fixed blade is a matter of convenience as I do not want to go to the trouble of opening and closing the blade every time I use the knife. I have never thought of a knife as a substitute for a hammer, chisel, or wood maul. If I want to hammer, chisel, or split something, I will use my hands and feet or modify a rock for that purpose. My carbon steel Craftsman fixed blade (I have got to find that knife in this mess of a house so I can measure the blade length to have when posting about it.) is a nice size, light weight, and about the only thing that needs modification is maybe a synthetic sheath for it. I have other knives and bayonets whose form and/or function I like, and I may carry more than one fixed blade knife with me when I feel it advisable, but the Craftsman is my mainstay for real excursions, and a folder on me will most likely be the only knife available in a true emergency.

Bountyhunter

KenK

I think that there are some key pints which need to be mentioned here. First of all you suggest that you would not expect to be in a survival situation for more than 4 days or so, or at least this is what you imply, but this cannot the same for everybody. you are obviously experienced and know what you are most likely to need, but i don't think anybody is expected to predict what their exact requirements in a survival situation may be, this is why we prepare ourselves with the best equipment we can reasonably carry. now a fixed blade knife is not all that heavy (the mora's are especially light for fixed blades) and is arguably the most important long term tool (and i think this is your point, you prepare for the short term).

secondly, yes a log cabin is slightly over the top for 4 days, but a lean to is not. you need something you can split wood with to be completely comfortable, maybe not in all situations. it's true that folders are becoming more reliable (but only really at the more expensive end of the spectrum), and maybe they can be used fairly efficiently for small work, but an important factor is how comfortable you are using the knife; blisters you don't want. i have not seen or used any folder which is as comfortable to use as my 5" mora steel as ideally i want a smooth oval wooden handle for extended periods of time.

thirdly, and i think this is the idea put across most often, what if your folder does become slightly loose, or worse break off? i would much rather have a full length knife with a tang to fix than half a knife.

just some ideas.

ian

Your premise is probably correct for 90% of the knife's potential use. It's the 10% I worry about. Gather 50' of poly, hemp or Manila line. Soak it and leave in a freezer for one hour. Now wrap yourself in it and jump into the shallow end of a swimming pool. For good measure lets imobilise your using arm. Have somebody toss a tarp over your head. You have a onehanded folder in your pocket and a sheath knife. For our second scenario sit in the park sandbox next Easter. We are hunting eggs, roots and water. Assume we don't have any improvised shovel and must use our knife. I discovered my RSK nearly imobile from lint and dust in my pockets gumming up in the viscous militec oil, even when applied sparingly ( working a waspy horse in a roundpen can stir up the ground!). This is more a maintenance headache, but again a consideration. Knives are just like firemaking gear. They are both so critical , predetermining to carry solely one is 'cutting' it close.

I prefer a folder for EDC, but rather have a fixed knife for outdoor activities or in a survival situation. They are stronger, safer and easier to use IMHO.

Dare I open up this can of worms <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />.

What about having to pry something apart. What about having to dig something up. Fixed blade knives are stronger than folders. In a survival situation a fixed blade knife would be preferable. Where I live everything has been covered with snow for over a month. Snapping a frozen piece of wood over your knee may not even be possible<img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />. Making a fire quickly wood require IMO spliting of the wood to get to a dry core. Try using a folder to split up a log for fire wood. Some folders can do it but it's less than ideal.

Adam

So wait. Your argument is that you'd rather break a branch over your knee, because if you hack at it with a knife you might injure yourself? I would take my chances chopping than risking injuring my leg on a branch that I misjudged I could break. Not to mention some branches are still attached to the tree, and cannot be broken over the knee simply because of their position. I digress...

Your point seems to be heavily based on your philosophy of what should and should not be done with knives. As long as you're doing what you "should" be doing with knives, a folder works just fine. But not everybody agrees with what's acceptable knife use.

Some people think you shouldn't dig, hammer, hack, or pry with a knife. For them, a folder works just fine. Not everybody agrees with that though, and for those who think using a knife like that is acceptable, a fixed blade is generally superior.

But don't make the mistake of thinking that just because someone has a fixed blade that they're immediately going to start abusing their knife. For some, it's a last resort thing, but the fact that it's an OPTION is important to them. Along those same lines, don't assume because someone carries a folder and believes using a knife this way isn't an acceptable practice that they'll never do it. They may have to one day, and their folder may or may not break.

Everything else about survival is "keep it simple" so why do you submit that this is not the case with knives? Generally people want the most ruggid/robust equipment they can practically have, so that they can depend on it if it's all that's standing between life and death. Generally compactness (a folding knife's main asset) comes second to that with the exception of places where something must be small to ensure you carry it, like PSK's. Even then, people strive to find the most dependable items that are still small enough to fit in the kit. I don't understand why you don't think that's the case here.

I can get into the old arguments that, depending on the model, fixed blade knives have no moving parts to maintain and fail, they have no moving parts to get clogged up, interfering with operation, they have no chance failing at the weak spots and folding on your fingers, no matter how remote that chance is (while we're talking about "chances for injury"), and those would all be accurate statements, but it doesn't really solve anything. It again comes down to preference.

That being said, I EDC several folders. I won't feel under equipped with a folder if I find myself in the wilderness and that's all I have, but if I have the choice, I want the strongest, most dependable fixed blade knife I can find.

You're ranting about folders as if they have something to prove. You compare them to fixed blades because they seem to be the benchmark. Well, that's because they are. They don't have to prove themselves, they've been doing that for thousands of years. Instead, you should ask yourself whether the ability to serve in the improvised and less ideal uses of knives is important to you. That's what it really boils down to. If it's not, then use your folder and be happy. It doesn't matter what other people think; to each their own. If it is, then the argument should be

"a fixed blade can do everything a folder can, and it can also do more if needed" not "a folder can do everything a fixed blade can" because that's incorrect unless you add the disclaimer "as long as you're doing what you should be doing with knives", the definition of which, as mentioned, varies from person to person.