I'm about to lead our troop through the process of building their own Photon stoves (starting Feb. 8 after the Klondike Derby!). We are tying it into a more general discussion and demonstration of stoves. Our troop backpacking stoves use white gas as a fuel and I'm curious if that would be an acceptable fuel for the Photon in addition to the alchohol. I know you can use grain alchohol and Heet, but I haven't seen anything on the web about white gas.

I know it's a very different fuel with very different properties than white gas. But it still may work. Our scoutmaster and I are thinking of testing it (not at a meeting), but I was wondering if folks could provide some insights, experience or warnings. BTW, we'll be very cautious (outdoors, proper distance, etc.) as I realize that we're working with a highly flamable and combustable liquid here.

FWIW, I first considered taking the can stove to Philmont with me this summer so I could treat myself to a personal morning cup of coffee without heating up one of the crew stoves. But the I decided against it as I didn't want to carry two types of fuel, plus I reduced my overall coffee drinking to help ensure keeping my blood pressure inline on the trail. It would have been nice once in a while, but I didn't really miss it too much (Too busy keeping up with the young stallions in our crew to worry about morning coffee!). Anyway, if it does work with white gas, then I could piggy back on the existing fuel carried for future hikes (like Kettle Morraine South in Wisconsin this April, a time of year when a hot Cup O' Joe would be welcomed).

Thanks for your insight.

I have no experience to share, but will follow your proposed experiment with interest.

I'd hazard a guess that in the relatively unpressurized Photon, the white gas will be sooty. This in itself may make it unsuitable.

Have you considered carrying some Esbit tabs and a folding or wing stove for them? You could rationalize them as backup firestarters or a safety margin in case your white gas estimate is a meal off.

Bear

Having built and used several of these type of stoves I would have to recommend staying away from the white gas. It is very volatile and with so many other cheaper fuels out there, HEET, rubbing alcohol, denatured alcohol(the best) there is really no need to experiment with white gas. Just my opinion.

Denatured alcohol burns very clean and hot. I boiled 4 cups of water in less than 5 minutes with about 3-4 tablespoons.

Rubbing alcohol will burn but is a bit sooty because of the water content...but it will heat and boil water, just takes longer.

Grain alcohol can be used..but it's really the most expensive since it is suitable for human consumption whereas the others are not.

HEET burns but is sooty and has funny oder..I would use this in an emergency.

Your best choice is the Denatured Alcohol. You can pick it up at you local hardware store or super store. One quart of the stuff should fuel all the stoves your scouts can build and it can be carried in a simple 20 oz plastic pop bottle with no fear of the container melting on you.

Also, depending on the style you build, you can turn the stove over and put an estibit tablet on the can and cook that way.

Wind screens are a must, but you can construct them out of heavy duty oven liner. My group has used them several times and the only frustration is A) having to come up with the pot support and B) not being able to turn it off.

Have fun, and if you do try the white gas...please be careful.

(I got tired of resurrecting my 7yr old computer but haven't moved my email over to the new one yet, so that's why you haven't heard back from me)

1. We found no diff between 24 and 32 holes - "workmanship" seemed to make more of a diff. IMHO, go with fewer holes, put the needle all the way into the non-tapered shank, and "align" the hole while the needle is in it. More holes = tedious

2. We tried mineral spirits. VERY hot and more soot than you can believe. It also wanted to get out of control - if there was very much liquid fuel in the stove, it sometimes wanted to boil out liquid burning fuel. <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> I suspect that white gas would be slightly less sooty but more likely to do liquid excursions, but dunno - try it outdoors on your patio.

3. Don't use aluminum bolts in aluminum nuts. After 1 - 6 uses they freeze up. I have two theories on precisely why, but no matter - the bolt will sieze in the nut and that's it for the stove. You asked me about a screw instead of a bolt... I don't believe it would be durable enough. It may be simpler to put a blob of J-B Weld in the top (former bottom) of the can (smoothed out to a disk) and then drill for a screw or drill and tap for a bolt.

The loose bolt has made me less enamored of the Photon type. The open-center type is next on my list - but I don't know if it is easily constructed by a young scout.

It was time consuming as heck to do this at Scout meetings, and we were set up in "stations" for each operation with an older scout or adult at each station. One thing that helps is to have a toaster oven to accelerate the J-B weld cure from 15 hours to 5-10 minutes. Try 165F - 180F; it really works great.

Have fun!

Tom

Thanks for the tips, Tom. My first attemp uses a stainless steel threaded T-nut and thumb screw. A bit more exoensive and heavier, but still not that much weight.

I looked at the open center design again and determined that it would be too much for some of the younger scouts. I also wonder if it's less fuel efficient as some evaporation must occur out of the central well. You think?

I'm going to try a new quick drying JB weld. I can't recall the set time. I'll let you know how the white gas and the JB Weld work.

Thanks for the tips.

BTW, I built my windscreen from recycled foil catering trays. Or you can buy new ones at the grocery store. More rigid than rolls of foil.

Well, sure. But on mine, at least, it's a minor loss. I'm still able to boil a cup of water in minutes. For
an adult, anyway, the open center design(s) are easier to build (just a knife, a can, and 20 minutes).
No JB Weld, no nuts, bolts, high temperature tape, etc. But I can see where scouts may have
trouble. The final assembly is the most critical... you can get a leak free joint between the top
and bottom but it takes some practice.

do you have an URL which demonstrates that kind of design ?

TIA

http://home.comcast.net/~agmann/stove/Stoves.htm

thanks !

Yeah, I just finished the Camping merit badge in Scouts and my merit badge counselor was showing us the different types of camping stoves, and one stove he had was a a tin can stove, or "hobo stove" as he called it. It was so cool that as soon as camp was ovr I made one myself, and I remember the guy saying to use perlite,(a type of pebble found in your local hardware store, costs a couple of bucks a bag) and but that in the can with denatured alcohol. Light it with a match and voila! you have a flame. It burns for about an hour before you need to put more alcohol in it. The can should last 7 or 8 times lit before you need to make a new one.

Willie,

Just a thought: the 5 minute J-B Weld is only rated to 300F iirc, whereas the regular J-B Weld is rated to 600F. I don't know if that is important, but it might be.

I'll let you know about the other stove design. First I have to drink some Guiness, then help finish up an Eagle project - no, wait, it's the other way around...

Tom

I haven't tried white gas yet, but I did demo my stove at the last troop meeting as part of a larger discussion on camping stoves. I was surprised when I poured the alchohol into my recycled plastic Stabil 8 oz. container, the fuel was a muddy brown color. Apparently the inside of the metal container must have rusted, coloring the fuel. It still worked but did seem harder to light. I never realized that there would be a problem with long term storage. I'll pick up some fresh fuel and transfer it into a plastic container I have preped for that purpose.

It's a large version of the Stabil bottle with a sidecar measuring chamber. I bought it from a New Orleans company that produces a cold-filter coffee concemtrate ( CoolBrew Coffee ). I found by accident that the Stabl container was not leak proof. The caps have a cardboard disc to seal the tops but they eventually get saturated and deteriorate. Luckily I carried the bottle in a ziploc bag! So I picked up a hunk of food grade gasket material at Ace and cut out replacement discs.

BTW, I'd be interested if anyone knows a source for the empty measuring containers.

BillVann:

The kind on this page?

http://www.brasslite.com/products.html

Bear

Bingo! Thanks.