Hello every body<br>i just finished my kit, but theres lots-o-room left over, and i need some suggestions for space fillers<br>KIT :<br><br>- small knife ( texas toothpick style but better)<br>- Spark lite fire tabs and striker ( 7 tabs 1 striker)<br>- 50 ft. fishing line (25 lb test)<br>- various fishing hooks<br>- heavy duty awe<br>- light duty awe/needle<br>- p-38 can opener<br>- 4 sq. ft. of heavy duty aluminum foil<br>- water purification tablets ( small vial full )<br>- 2 "Band-Aid" band aids<br>- disenfectant wipe thingy<br>- button ( for sewing repair)<br>- various medicine ( 4 tylenol, 4 motrin pain killers) 4 pepto bismo just for eating the wrong berries and what not :)<br><br>- (blank)<br>- (blank)<br>- (blank)<br><br>i figure i could fit 3 more small usefull thing's in but having trouble on what.<br>maybe a condom for water transport ( being since i live in desert )<br>Any suggestions or commets welcome

Great to see another getting prepared! looks like you have a great start going there!<br><br>check here first<br><br>http://www.equipped.org/survlkit.htm<br><br>Let us know what size kit you are working on, what you are preparing for, is this kit for daily carry, personal, auto .... <br><br>Detailed questions produce detailed answers.<br><br>My daily carry kit - in an altoids tin:<br><br>sewing kit<br> HD awl<br> medium sewing needle<br> HD sewing needle<br> 20 yards (or more) nylon upholstery thread<br> 5 small safety pins<br> 1 large safety pin<br>Fishing kit<br> 20 yards fishing line<br> 5 small hooks<br> 1 large hook for gaff<br> 5 swivels<br> 5 split shot<br>Hunting kit<br> 1 small thompson snare<br> 10 yds brass snare wire<br> 1 spring return cable keychain ( used to spring traps and snares)<br>various tools<br> button compass<br> wire saw<br> 2 xacto blades<br> 1 straght razor<br> 1 spark lite and 5 tinders<br> 5 matches with striker ( these are paper book matches dipped in wax and sealed into polyethylene pouch)<br>containers<br> 1 13 gallon trash bag<br> 1 balloon<br>medical<br> 10 aspirin<br> 25 iodine tablets ( sealed into a 1/2 length section of a bic stick pen which seems to be impervious to the reactivity of the iodine and doesn't leak fumes to discolor the rest of the contents of the kit.)<br>Cordage<br> 10 yards of nylon twine<br> 10 yards of 550 paracord<br>Tape<br> 10 feet of medical adhesive tape<br> 10 feet of duct tape<br>Misceleaneous<br> 1 tube wood type krazy glue<br> several "ranger" bands. ( sections of innertube from a bicycle innertube. These are secured around the kit.<br>1Altoids Tin<br>4 square feet HD foil<br><br>This is a daily carry item and is always in my front left pocket. I also carry an altoids tin in my front right pocket with first aid supplies as follows<br><br>Bandages<br> 5 medium "band aids"<br> 5 butterfly "band aids"<br> medicines<br> small tube triple antibiotic gel<br> tools<br> folding scissors<br> xacto blades<br> tweezers<br>Miscellaneous<br> more Ranger Bands<br><br>This first aid kit is new to me and I am still working on it. I expect that I will augment the medicine section and replace the folding scissors with a small SAK with the handle modified to make it thinner. (removing the plastic side pieces and sacrificing the toothpick and holder for the tweezers)<br><br>I would be interested in hearing more about what might fit into an altoids sized first aid kit. being in the US where the FDA makes it difficult to acquire medicines I would be interested in suggestions about what could be added for best effect to that category and how to package them.

A small oven roasting bag (easier to fill than condom, longer shelf life, no latex allergy issues, more rugged and holds more water)<br><br>A tiny (3/8" or 1/4") binder clip to hold bag shut<br><br>8-12" of surgical tubing (for sucking water, making slingshot, restricting band for snake bite or OS tourniquet, et al) - it's all latex, so the allergy issue is still there. This can be wrapped and tied around the seam of the kit for extra waterproofing.<br><br>As much paracord as you can wrap around the thing. Makes it less likely to fall out of pockets.<br><br>BTW- if you are using an iodine based water purifaction tab, make sure you are using containers that the iodine won't eat. Doug talks about them a couple of places. Definantly worth it.

You don't mention the size of your container. Make sure you cover the big 6 first.<br>Knife, Fire, Water, Signal, Shelter, First Aid. Then think about food gathering and equipment repair.<br><br>I don't see any signalling equipment. Whistle, mirror, notepaper/pencil, surveyor's tape, smoke, flare, etc.<br><br>I only see one mean's of making a fire. Waterproof matches and striker, Magnesium bar and striker, ferro rod, magnifiying glass/fresnel lens (good for desert), disposable lighter, etc.<br><br>I would recommend trading the Immodium Ad for the Pepto Bismal. One immodium-AD every 12 hours or 2 Pepto Bismal every 1/2 hr. Your results may vary but Immodium stops me up within 10 minutes. PB I can eat all day and still feel uneasy about being more than a few steps away from a bathroom.<br><br>- Whistle and/or mirror<br>- Snares or snare wire<br>- Lawn sized trash bag/space blanket<br>- Container to hold your water so you can use the purifiation tabs.<br>- Couple sheets of notepad paper and pencil stub<br>- Button compass<br>- Duct tape<br>- Paracord<br>- Knife sharpener<br><br>P38's are cool things to have and useful if you have cans around. For a PSK, they usually are not as useful as some of the other items listed above. If you want to carry one, put it on your keyring with a wrap of tape around the opener to keep it from opening and poking holes in your leg.

Nice selection. <br><br>How do you get 10 yards of paracord into an altoids tin? Then how do you get all the other stuff in also? Maybe it's a typo and you mean 10 feet?

Paracord is wrapped around the outside as is the foil and the ranger bands. I was working from memory when I made the first post. Probably more like 10 feet of paracord. I also forgot that I have:<br>- a p38 which I sharpened on the long edge. Doesn't hold too well but it is something. I keep it wrapped in the cardboard that usually wrapps straght-edge razors. <br><br>- a small tubular aluminum whistle about the size of a fat golf pencil.<br><br>How do I fit it all? Well if I didn't have paracord and ranger bands around the outside it might spring out. No really, It is just a matter of stuffing and cramming. It all really fits in the altoids tin <br><br>One of the things that I found took up unecessary room in others kits is extra packaging. In my first kit I made a little pouch for the fishing kit from heat sealed polyethylene and same for the sewing kit. I looked for a small vial for the iodine as well. With these in the kit I couldn't fit near as much. Now the fishing kit is a spool of line with split shot and swivels in the core and a piece of adhesive tape folded over with hooks inside the whole kit wrapped in another piece of adhesive tape. The sewing kit is the three needles with upholstery thread wrapped arround them until they are rather fat. The tapes are folded upon themselves to a thickness that lines the floor of the tin over the garbage bag. The spring key cable is about the same diameter as the button compass and the photon all of which stack within the coil of the snarewire, snare, and wire saw. The whistle, matches, aspirin, twiine, p38, straight razor and ballloon fit the short dimension of the kit on one end bring the interior space down to a square. The Krazy glue, sewing kit, and sparklite fit the long deminision of the kit on the hinge side. The remaining square space holds the fishing kit, button compass, spring key cable, photon II stacked and surrounded by snare wire, snare and saw. The other items fit stuffed in the spaces between round and square things. Mostly what is left is the sparklite tinder and safety pins I find that the large safety pin serves a vital purpose of spanning the top of the photon to prevent anything from compressing the switch and lighting up the interior of my kit and draining the battery. <br><br>Yes it is difficult to pack and easy to drop things on the ground when opening but something on the ground at the scene is more likely to be usefull than something back at home.<br><br>The garbage bag is selected as the thinnest that I could find. It is not at all durable. I expect to use it for one of two things. If for shelter then It will be sandwiched between local material - pine boughs and other stuffing to prevent it from recieving much direct weathering. If for garment then it is single use - one storm and I expect it would be badly tattered. Still better than nothing and seeing as it takes up so little room.... <br><br>I am thinking of exchanging the balloon for a condom but with those ranger bands in the way I am not encouraged to open it unless an emergency is upon me. I expect that once opened in an emergency the contents would be distributed throughout the pockets of whatever I am wearing since using things from the kit very rapidly distributes the contents of the kit across the ground. <br><br>I don't have a web page to post pic's to so I can't show you how this fits. It is "dense packed" for sure.

mebrad<br>Sounds like a great kit! So that really all fits into an altoids tin?<br>I'd love to see some photos of it.<br><br>If you have digital/scanned photos, you can email them to me (mrunyan@usa.net) and I will post them for you if you like.<br>red_jeep

Thanks Matt, I will send them to you this weekend if I can get them together. Included will be:<br>contents spread out,<br>several assembly shots<br>completed as carried.

Pics are up at:<br>http://www.employees.org/~mrunyan/survival/mebrad/<br><br>Nothing fancy (no thumbnails or index page) but you can see what's in there.<br>

So here it is with pic's thanks to Matt.<br><br>The Kit:<br><br>wrapped in ranger bands and paracord.<br><br>Outer layer:<br>tidying layer:<br><br>Cord and foil<br><br>Water Proofing<br><br><br>That's a lot of ranger bands and the really long one covers like a sleeve in the long direction. That is about 4 square feet of foil and about 12 feet of paracord. The kit is still sealed with electrical tape.<br><br>The Contents:<br>tightly packed<br><br><br>1/2 packed<br><br>unpacked<br>Closeup1:<br><br>Closeup2:<br><br>The Kit Contents:<br><br><br>From top to Bottom:<br>Balloon; twine; potable Aqua in bic Pen tube; whistle<br>Sewing needles and upholstery thread; safety pins; fishing kit; Xacto blades and sheath; p38<br>Matches and striker in polyethylene; snare and Photon; Krazy glue; adhesive tape; duct tape<br>Sparklite and tinder; cable saw and sprung key cable; snare wire and compass; trash bag.<br><br>Missing items: aspirin, straight razor, pencil<br><br>The dark line to the right is the electrical tape used to seal the kit.

sorry my computer was having some probs ( more like i was having probs with comp ) but it is in a tin that a good friend of mine sent me, it is a tad bit bigger than a box that holds a deck of cards<br>Thanx resqman, i added my dog tag, it has a neat polish job that my uncle did to it some sort of reflective powder coating he does but any way i have replaced all my shoe laces with para cord so no worries there<br>and i took a old innertube of a bycicle tire and made some "Ranger Bands" with it (wrapped kit), replaced pep with immodium and dont really have enough room for any other means of fire but on my keychain i have a flint wrapped with 15 lb fishing line and im rarley found without my zippo.<br>o btw, any ideas for a keychain?

Hey a neat addition to a survival kit are those sponges they sell in craft stores, there about 1/8 of an inch thick, but when you get them wet they expand to a full inch or so, pretty neat, i figured you can use them to collect morning dew and tending wounds as well as bathing. ill get a pic of my kit and sponge soon

How did you seal the PA tube, and how often do you rpelace them?<br><br>Other than that, looks increadable.

Potable Acqua is sealed into the half length Bic-Stick pen with two of the end-caps that normally seal the end of the pen. These seem to fit tightly enough to prevent the other contents of my kit from turning yellow so are presumed to be airtight. I have only just assembled this kit 2 months ago so I havn't come to the 3 month replacement time. I am running a sort of experiment here. If they come out after 3 months with no noticeable degradation or coloration or weakening of the tube then I will consider this packaging safe. If you can find out the actual composition of this plastic let me know. So far everything seems sealed and stable. The internal diameter of the tube fits the iodine tablets accurately enough that they don't rattle around and if you cut the caps a little shorter than production length they will fit snugly without taking up too much room. On one of the caps I flattened the edge of the cap so I can grip it with my leatherman and pull it off. I suspect that the xacto blades would be able to cut that tube open well enough in an emergency but then I wouldn't be able to re-seal it. I remember biting these caps off back in highschool and being able to re-insert them....<br><br>I suspect that I will be able to open a close this adequately in the field.

I put my portable aqua in a tiny glass vial (found in some craft shops here - it looks like a tiny version of what some herb containers look like ) and this is sealed with a tiny cork (came with the vial ). This seems to work quite well too. No leakage and i can stuff 24 of those potable aqua + some cotton wool inside. Fits pretty well in my psk.<br><br>Anyone have any idea if PA will erode cork ?<br><br>

It probably will- iodine is pretty corrosive/reactive. I figure it should chew Brad's pic pen up pretty well (at least I don't think they are a flouroethalyne based plastic), and those caps aren't air tight. Trust me, I chew on my pens and even a new one can have air sucked thought it.<br><br>Doug talks about the joys of finding things it doesn't react with at http://www.equipped.org/parepack.htm<br><br>Blueline stocks them if you want to order them from him. I got mine from the VetTech department at my old college.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Anyone have any idea if PA will erode cork ?<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>No doubt. As the tablets release free iodine, it will attack (oxidize) the cork (organic). However, I think you could use a piece of PTFE (Teflon) pipe thread tape to prevent that problem. Lay a short piece of tape over the mouth of the bottle and then press the cork in.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Scouter Tom

Great idea! I'll try that. <br>Thanks!

hi mebrad<br>great seeing pics of your kit! I was just curios as to why you have papper matches when there are wind and waterproof ones avalabule. is it cos thy take up les space?<br>oh and one more thing; I've never seen someong have glue in there survival kit befor. why did you think it deserves a place in your kit? <br>thanks.<br>-james

The matches are awaiting an upgrade. I put together the kit with what was on hand and am upgrading items as I get to it. So-far it haven't acquired, packaged better matches. I may be getting a few more matches in by using paper matches but I am sure that they would all be useless if they got wet. <br><br>The krazy glue is the kind rated for wood and other absorbent materials. This type of glue is useful for various repair work and is also quite adequate replacement for sutures in SHALLOW though bloody wounds such as occur in the face and hands. Essentially if the wound doesn't sever a major vein, artery or full muscle then it can be glued back together after sterilization. This is not recommended unless you are quite certain of sterilization. In SHALLOW wounds soap and water, iodine at high concentrations and alcohal all serve to sterilize. Use only Krazy glue or Super glue for suturing. There is a gell formulation of this type of glue which is easier to use for suturing but you are more likely to use more than is needed in other situations. Also the gell formulation comes in a somewhat larger container so didn't fit.

Update on the Bic pen. <br><br>Barrel and endcaps are made of polypropylene ( I checked with Bic) . I don't know the chemistry of pp well enough to know for sure that there is no reaction taking place but for two months the iodine has bee stored in this way and not yet weakened the tube.<br><br>Air Tightness. Well after chewing on them I wouldn't expect them to remain tight. Also I haven't subjected them to changes in air pressure such as would occur when sucking on them. I do know that in an earlier attempt to package these tablets I failed to get air-tight containment and everything in my kit turned yellow. I replace yellowed items and the container and haven't seen any yellowing from the tablets stored in the bic tube. I could probably gasket the caps with ptfe plumbers tape for a tighter seal but that doesn't seem necessary yet. I may find a different result if I took these to altitude thereby causing a significant pressure gradient. I could probably also get away with a dab of Krazy glue on the caps but that would certainly make it more difficult to get into the tablets when they are needed. <br><br>I will investigate further with organic chemists that I know. If there are any here qualified to inform on the interactions between free iodine and polyporpylene then please step forward. This form factor is the best that I have been able to find/devise and in this application volume is everything.<br><br>My wife suggested using the sample tubes that are provided for perfume. I haven't found one of the right diameter yet. These are glass and the cap could certainly be protedted by ptfe tape. If anyone sees one of these of the right diameter please post the brand name of perfume so I can try them out. As with the Bic pen the cap on these is a friction fit and may be subject to leakage at altitude. YMMV.

A little bit of info I found about Iodine containers ( I love Google!)<br><br>Make only as much iodophor sanitizing solution as you need for each use. Iodine is volatile and will outgas from the solution with time, losing its sanitizing ability. You may have noticed that an iodine solution left in an open glass jar will lose its brown color. If you do have leftover solution, store it in a tightly sealed glass jar or a PET plastic soda bottle. Solution stored this way is stable for about a week. Do not store the solution in other types of plastics because they will either absorb the iodine fairly quickly or allow it to volatize because of their gas permeability, again causing a loss of sanitizing ability.<br><br>http://realbeer.com/jjpalmer/cleaning.html<br><br>Because handwashing in all settings is so poorly practiced, gloves are ordered in patient<br>care and food preparation areas by regulators. As a comment to this rule change, a study<br>was submitted to the US FDA concerning a polypropylene wiper coated with PVP-I to<br>deliver 750-1250 ppm of free iodine.8 Test subjects were repeatedly contaminated with<br>cultures of S. marcesans over a two hour period, and instructed to clean-up using only a<br>water rinse, and 15 second wipe with the wiper. Their hands were swabbed and culture<br>test results recorded.<br><br>http://www.biolargo.com/hunter-killer.pdf <br><br><br>The references follow the excerpts.<br><br>Seems from the first excerpt that PET is a better storage material than "other plastics"<br><br>Seems from the second post that they are using polypropylene as an applicator wipe soaked in sterilizing concentrations of free iodine solution. Leads me to believe that polypropylene will not degrade in this application. Still may be too gas-permeable as mentioned in the first excerpt. <br><br>Still looking for a definitive result. Does anyone know of a chemical test for presence of iodine that I could run on the outside of my test container?<br><br>Brad

It also burns pretty well. Not as well as plasitc model glue, but close. Just drip a small puddle of it onto a piece of tinder, add a match (it doesn't do so well on sparks), and it will dry slightly damp tinder and last long enough to light it. <br><br>If you have a little scrap of polystyrene on hand (insulation, padding, whatever), it's a backwood form of napalm, and will make a good (if slightly enviromentally unfreindly) tinder.<br><br>

The caps leak even before I chew on them. *scowls* <br><br>Just take a fresh one and blow through it. Unless the ones they sell in your area are diffrent than the ones around here....

I've wrapped the PTFE plumber's tape over the cork a few times. I hope it holds. So far, the cork seems to be OK, with little signs of erosion (fingers crossed). Thanks for the great tip.

Sorry about the chew-toy implication. My experience is different than yours. Though I have chewed on a few of these in my time also. <br><br>Bic makes a couple of stick pens. The ones I am referring to are the Bic Round Stick pens. These have a somewhat larger diameter barrel, blue plugs in the end and a blue collar on the business end holding the ink. The pens which have a larger white cap on the end which stands up off the end of the pen are a different make and indeed do leak - they are also too small in internal diameter to hold PA tablets.<br><br>Also, I get mine fresher if that makes a difference. They are manufactured in CT and I live in NH so they don't travel far before I get them. Dont know if the \handling in travel would affect them though I doubt it would.

OK, I was thinking the buck-a-dozen, white ones. I may have to look for ones like what you descirbe.<br><br>And your's couldn't be that much differnt than the ones we find in Vermont.

These are the ones I use:<br><br><br><br>papermate makes a pen they call the stick pen which looks like this:<br><br><br><br>I couldn't find a picture of the end with the plug in it but the difference is obvious when you look at it. The papermate has a 1/2" tall decorative end on the plug whereas the Bic has a flat plug which adds no length to the pen.

Oh, I think I see the difficulty. You've been saying "cap", but you are using the plug from another pen, rather than the cap with the clip.<br><br>Nevermind, I'm just advertising my recessive blond genes

you say plug I say cap we don't speak the same language ... oops.<br><br>BTW There's nothing wrong with blonds - some of my best friends are blonds!<br><br>The "Bic Round Stic" has a flat-topped plug. I use the barrell and the plug from one of these pens, cut the barrel down to length, harvest the plug from another pen and plug the open end of the cut-down barrel. Then, remembering that I am creating a container for iodine tablets, I swear profusely, remove one of the plugs, put iodine tablets in and then re-plug the open end. So - far it works for me. <br><br>Of course I am still looking for conclusive evidence that this is usable. I only know that nothing else in my kit is picking up the iodine stain and this leads me to believe that I have a decent seal around the plugs. The inside contents may be turning into a gelatenous gue as the iodine reacts with the interior of the pen barrel for all I know.

Well, I'd be checking on your goo- if they are still tablets, I'd say you've solved one of our moe common problems, and for about 9 cents a piece. (18, if you refuse to use an unplugged pen.)

After reading about the sponges mentioned above, I went to a crafts store and picked one up. I got one wet and found a milky substance coming from it. Does anyone know what this stuff is and if it's good or bad for you?<br><br>Thank you very much.<br>Xavier Phx, AZ

Just curious, did the how did the Bic container experiment turn out?

The container and the tablets are still intact. The tablets look same color and make same color and ordor and taste when used. Don't have anything more sophisticated to test this with. I am assured by an organic chemist that the polypro pen barrel and caps would be immune to the iodine and vise-versa.<br><br>Don't be thrown by the change in username it was a result in a glitch in the forum software that disabled my former username.

What bag or pack do you put your kit in?

everyone talks about gaff hook why not use large treble hook, you can snag fish or grapple with it.

Bulk and packability

A largish treble hook in a psk that is jamb-packed with stuff will snag on everything when you unpack your kit. It willtake up a much larger volume than a flat gaff hook. If you try to haul in the fish with the treble hook or to grapple with it you will - potentially snag and tangle other things - including yourself. Treble hooks are wonderful for fishing with but don't pack well.

Just my $.02