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#36025 - 01/04/05 07:00 AM Re: Where do you store your emergency supplies/gea
turbo Offline
Member

Registered: 01/27/04
Posts: 133
Loc: Oregon
Susan,

There are three basic elements to creating a structure to withstand seismic and other fluid forces.
A solid foundation, a reinforced structure, and flexibility in both their connection and interconnection. I have designed such structures since the 1960's. Some of the simple structures, i.e., reinforces concrete underground environmental vaults, have floated to the surface when subject to high water pressures but remained intact and dry inside.

I have great respect for arches, domes and other classic building shapes. However, despite what governmental approval these structures have passed, they will not stand up to any lateral force greater than their weak structural interconnection or their lack of foundation. Give me a couple of minutes with a high pressure fire hose and I will show you the fallacy of gravity joined building structures. Remember the only mechanical device holding the building together is tiny barbs stuck into sand bag material.

I have been involved with restoring communication infrastructures after various types of disasters and the prevention of such calamities. The worst thing you can create is a structure that does not allow the occupants the time and a way to escape. These structures, to my way of thinking, are tomes.

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#36026 - 01/04/05 07:56 AM Re: Where do you store your emergency supplies/gea
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
Sue, Please heed Turbo's advise on this one! I've read countless variations on the WHOLE EARTH CATALOG promoting everything from Mongolian Yurts to rubber tire and rammed earth Ashrams. They are all long on theory and oftentimes short on real word realities, if not thumbing their noses ( or other hand guestures) at authority, mainstream values etc. An egg may be a marvelous sturctural devise, but mix in DDT and you have peregrine falcons permanently wet nursed to avoid extinction. And that is what most of these alternative designs are, Buckmeister Fuller meets Faulty Towers. Natural or civil disasters test the best of our building codes. We want good structures to stow our gear and ourselves in. The recent tsunami is case in point. A few, very few major buildings survived. Like the 3 little pigs, our wolf huffed, and he puffed and the straw and stick houses came down. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

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#36027 - 01/04/05 08:59 AM Re: Where do you store your emergency supplies/gea
ratstr Offline
@
Member

Registered: 09/07/01
Posts: 181
Loc: Dardanelles
In the recent earthquake in the city of Bam in Iran thousands of people died in adobe houses.

When you are preparing for natural disasters there is nothing like a properly built single storey precast concrete building.

There are domed buildings more than thousand years old in Istanbul that withstood earthquakes, but it should never be forgotten that those buildings are masterpieces of architecture (for example Hagia Sophia), not regular buildings. I have seen small domed buildings like mosques or chapels, baths etc. come down easily. Last year a very minor earthquake took an adobe house down any killed the family in it.

Burak

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#36028 - 01/04/05 10:47 AM Re: Where do you store your emergency supplies/gear?
Anonymous
Unregistered


I have 3 identical + 72 hr kits.
#1 is in the house in the bedroom. An older gentleman whose opinion I respected once told me to keep your clothes and weapons where you could find them in the dark. I decided this applied to survival kits too.
#2 is in the camper in case fire gets the house.
#3 buried in garage in case a tornado or something else gets the house and the camper. It’s divided up and sealed in 3 sections of PVC pipe.
All our vehicles have smaller kits in the trunks.

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#36029 - 01/04/05 02:57 PM Re: Where do you store your emergency supplies/gear?
norad45 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 1506
That is an excellent idea about storing stuff on an outside wall. That's where I'll keep my pick, shovel, chainsaw, and other excavating tools until I get a shed built. I've been meaning to build one for my ATV anyway. I think a four wheeler would prove invaluable in the aftermath of a big quake.

The gear stored in my truck includes a 10 ton hoist which I'm sure would be handy for recovery work but if I'm home then my truck will be parked in the garage on the ground floor. If the house collapes the truck will be buried as well, and I think it likely that the truck cap will be crushed.

I have the usual network of relatives and friends to evac to but I would like to remain on site and rebuild if at all possible.

Regards, Vince

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#36030 - 01/04/05 03:13 PM Re: Where do you store your emergency supplies/gear?
norad45 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 1506
I agree about the shotgun. I'm not going to leave it in the trailer though. It's not that I'm worried about the monetary loss; it's just if it gets stolen and used in a crime then I might be civilly liable. I'll probably just stash a couple around the house in various places and trust to luck that they will be accessible..... <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Regards, Vince


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#36031 - 01/04/05 05:34 PM Re: Where do you store your emergency supplies/gea
norad45 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 1506
I think that your idea has merit. If I did not already have the trailer I would consider it, and maybe I will use it for plan "C" if necessary. In my neck of the woods if a quake occurs it is possible that it will occur on a 25 degree farenheit day with a 35 MPH wind. I can't think of anything less comfortable than a tarp shelter, a tent, or a hastily thrown-together shack. Your solution, while labor intensive, would provide a fairly snug, long term shelter.

Aftershocks are going to be a concern no matter what kind of semi-permanent shelter you have. This one reminds me of the old sod houses built by the pioneers, and those proved very durable-not to mention warm. <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Regards, Vince

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#36032 - 01/04/05 07:27 PM Re: Where do you store your emergency supplies/gea
Susan Offline
Geezer

Registered: 01/21/04
Posts: 5163
Loc: W. WA
Vince, in the aftermath of an earthquake, I would be likely to use nothing heavier over me than a tent. Your point of the garage crashing over your truck is well taken, but that wouldn't be a problem for me: genetically speaking, no one on either side of my family has ever had a VEHICLE in a garage! And all the junk in is is so tightly packed that even if the garage collapsed, the contents probably wouldn't even shift.

I offered the dome as I consider it: an interesting experiment that I would like to try. While a firehose aimed at it probably would tear it apart, the effects of gravity would tend to help in a quake. BTW, most of the dome buildings in the middle east are built of adobe-type bricks, stacked & caulked with mud. They are exposed to rain, wind & snow, & deteriorate at an alarming rate. The newer method of firing these home from inside makes them much more weather-resistant.

Sue

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#36033 - 01/04/05 11:59 PM Re: Where do you store your emergency supplies/gea
Eugene Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 12/26/02
Posts: 2997
" no one on either side of my family has ever had a VEHICLE in a garage! And all the junk in is is so tightly packed that even if the garage collapsed, the contents probably wouldn't even shift."

Why are you describing my garage <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

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