Bountyhunter, it SOUNDS good, but I think I need to see a demonstration....

Actually, the old knee-kick can really work, & when it works, it REALLY works -- you sure don't have to repeat yourself. Two women came out of the place in L.A. where they had learned it, and were jumped by 5 guys. One of the women panicked and ran off screaming and a couple of blocks later nearly got run over by a police car. The officer goes back to the scene to find 4 guys gone, one guy still there, screaming in agony, and one woman, still on her feet, yelling "It works! It works!"

Sue