Some kits include aluminium foil, with one use being to fold into pans to hold water. Is that really practical? What's the best way of doing it? I did a search and found some general Origami links, including these:

• Box 1 This seemed to give the best size, and it starts from a rectangular sheet.
• Box 2 This is another good size, but it requires a square sheet to start with which I see as a disadvantage.
• Box 3 This is another rectangular one, simple but a bit long and shallow.
  

None of them were designed for survival. Also none of them have lids. Water heats much quicker if the pan has a lid. I have made them from paper but I've not tried foil yet, nor have I tested to see whether they are suitable for boiling water. I figured I was probably repeating research that other people have already done, so I should ask. And it looks like something that you need to learn and practice before you need to do it in the wild. If it works, it seems to me that if you can make a fire and boil water, you don't really need water purification tablets. Anyway comments and experience welcomed.

PS This is my first post, but I've been reading here for a while. I live and work in urban UK.

The problem isn't getting a box folded, just scrunching the aluminum foil into a bowl or something will hold water, more or less. But not sturdily enough to set on a fire, unfortunately. And it tends to get pinholes in the folds. We had a discussion about this awhile ago, see if you can find it. I think someone even did some experiments.

Welcome to the forum Brangdon.

The problem is not forming the container or setting it up on a fire. The problem is removing the foil from your kit, unfolding it and finding "pinholes" in the corners where the foil was folded.

Here are some pictures from a test I conducted.

I started with a single sheet of 12"x12" (30.48 X 30.48 cm) heavy duty aluminum foil. I formed the basic shape by folding the foil over my knee:



I then used my thumb to flatten out the bottom of the container to make a base:



And folded the top of the foil over to add strength to the creased sides:



Next I filled with 18 ounces (540 ml) of liquid. (I used iced tea for color contrast)



I then placed the filled container on the stove:



After a few minutes, a full boil:



In the field, I have had success with variations on the types of fires highlighted in green:



Probably the easiest and my favorite is this variant:



As far as the pinholes in the folds of the foil - well we'll just have to keep experimenting. [color:"pink"] [/color]

I guess I might as well get involved instead of passively reading the forum.

About two weeks ago, I tried Box 1 and, after examining a Gerber breast milk bag, also folded a container with a pleated bottom. Both had many pin holes due to folding. Then at the supermarket I found an aluminum roasting bag. Although they were the large size, I purchased them just to see how they were made. They seem to have some type of rolled weld along the edges and might hold up if rolled around something. However, the size of these bags was way too big for any type of kit. So I emailed the company to see where I might purchase smaller bags. They responded that large was the only size they made. Then I set out to construct a small version of such a bag. First I considered some type of high temp tape. The tapes I found will withstand around 2600 F but the adhesive backing only about 600 F. That company did, however, make a high temp cement good to around 2600 F which IIRC came in a tube like one would use with a caulking gun. The tube of cement ran, I think, around 40 USD. I think, the only way to heat water, etc. with a small kit is to house the kit in a metal container which can also serve as a mini pot.

this is the next iteration of my psk container....

http://www.moosineer.com/moosedetail.asp?ID=4700

Great idea that deserves a test! My origami skills are limited to making boulders <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />... in fact, every piece of paper I've ever thrown away I've turned into an origami boulder. I'll have to try this technique sometime.

Semper Fi, George

Thanks. I found the previous discussion at On Aluminum Foil and boiling containers. I had read back well over a year's worth of old messages, but this is from 2002 and I missed it.

All this discussion of precision use of aluminum foil reminds me of Phil Hartmann's old SNL skit - The Anal-Retentive Chef...

<img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

(Okay... so it's not exactly on topic, but after reading about how finicky the foil is in these controlled conditions, I can't see it holding up in real world survival applications. I think you've gotta bite the bullet and carry an unlined tuna/soup can if you're gonna actually boil water - I'll bet the weight isn't much different than the HD foil either - and if you want light - maybe even a pop can might work, if you can support it's light aluminum shell with other survival supplies packed inside.)

Mini aluminum pie tins.

I've bought a couple disposable aluminum cookie trays. I'm going to cut one up and experiment with it, and if I like how it works I'll cut the other one up for my PSK.

I thought I told you after our last such discussion but maybe I just did the experiment then forgot to post the results. <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> Anyway I found some rectangular mini pie tin-type tins made for making tiny single serving meatloafs. I folded a couple flat then rolled them super-flat with a rolling pin then unfolded then and used them to boil water over the flame from a propane grill. Worked well... no leaks. I had to fashion a lid for it (small piece of bark works well) but that was it.

I don't remember that. You may have posted it, and I may even have read it, but I don't remember. Thanks.

Are these the ones like you find one person pies in at convenience stores?

Something like it, yes. I also use the rectangular small bread loaf ones. Good size. I just roll up the edges (bit tedious, but worth it) fold it to fit on the bottom of the container, and walk it a few times with a dead blow mallet. I suspect it would be much easier to unfold that than trying to fold a sheet of aluminum foil into a pan when my hands are really cold.

I like those Trianga mess tins too, the ones with the lids. For me they are a bit too big to really be considered "personal". They can go in a rucksack OK, but you can get separated from your rucksack. To be honest, they are too big for me to bring along without a definite intention of using it, so I think of it more as a hiking kit than a survival one. I have found a small tin which was originally a presentation box for a minature bottle of Baileys, which holds about 250ml. I think that's the smallest amount which is worth heating. It is not too big to carry even when I'm not going to have a disaster, but it is still too big for a pocket. (The "You Can Survive" commercial kit, reviewed here, comes in a nice-sized tin too, but it's an awkward shape to carry and the rest of the kit is poor. But it's the kit which first got me into this.)

I'm comming to think there is no good solution. Anything large enough to contain and heat a decent amount of water will be bigger than what I'm willing to carry on my person.