Bountyhunter: The way I heard that 3-on-a-match story was that in the trenches, you'd light up the buddy to one side of you, then the buddy on the other side of you, then yourself. When lighting up your buddies, the match light didn't indicate (well) where their heads were in relation to the light. But when you lit up yourself, the enemy knew the light was directly in front of your face, so could try for a head shot by hitting the light. -- Bear

Dchinell;

Either way, I would not want to be the third man on the match.

Here's another WW1 & WW2 ditty from the archives of combat survival. You are a rifle toting grunt and have just taken a dump and your platoon is ahead of you and out of sight. Just as you finish hitching up your pants, 3 enemy combatants appear coming over a rise about 100 yards away from you. You can make out the weapons of each and determine that one has a shotgun, the other has a submachine gun, and the third man has a rifle.

Who do you shoot first, and why?

Bountyhunter

Shoot the guy with the rifle first. Heck, shoot him twice just to make sure. The guy with the shotgun (did the German's even issue shotguns?) is not likely to be carrying slugs, and probably couldn't hit me at 100 yards with them anyway. Assuming I'm still an American, the sub guns of WWII (MP40's) were not terribly accurate, and at 100 yards wouldn't have much oomph even if they did hit you. That Mauser on the other hand, I don't want to deal with.

Fortunately, with an M1 Garand, you can probably get all three... And not even have to reload.

Gotta love battle rifles... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Carbines don't do a thing for me.

Greg

I just thought of another- 3 minutes without air

Hey, bounty
shoot the farthest one first, followed quickly by the middle man, and lastly, the closest one, that way, the two left standing don't (maybe) go for cover when they see the first target go down. That's the popular theory, anyway... I'd prefer to call in an air strike and take out the enemy troopers that I can't see, no sense in taking any chances..."You don't win a war by dying for your country, you win a war by making the other poor b*****d die for his country" General George S. Patton <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />.

I would shoot the rifle barrer first, but during WWI if you saw a shotgun it wasn't a german. The german's thought we were barbarians for using shotguns during wartime, and announced that any American captured with a shotgun would be promply shot.

Here's my take on the problem:

First, shoot the rifleman. Depending on his markmanship, he may be a very serious threat.

Second, shoot the submachinegunner. If he carefully devotes 1-2 magazines to you, your number is going to be up. A bullet from 4" barreled 9 mm. Luger pistol using German military ammo will have velocity of a little more than 1000 fps. at 100 yds. The SMG has a significantly longer barrel so we would expect the velocity to be increased by approximately 200-300 fps at the muzzle, with a retained velocity in the area of say 1150-1250 fps at 100 yds.

The shotgunner is the least threatening. His pattern is likely to be spread over a broad area. I also suspect pellet drop at that range might be a variable the shooter would neglect to address. Assuming a muzzle velocity of about 1300fps, and 00 buckshot (54 grs. at .33" , a popular size, but who really knows what size pellets would be used if for some reason the Germans were using shotguns), the retained velocity might be around 600-900 fps (WAG) making it still dangerous at 100 yds. IIRC, 00 Buckshot has a calculated maximum range (based on Journee's {sp?} formula of 660 yds. I also seem to recall that someone (NRA/Hatcher/?) actually measured the range and found it to be about 500 yds. Even if 1 or more pellets hit you but did not happen to kill you immediately, consider the prospects for wound treatment. Infection would be highly likely, and the treatment available would not seem promising.

Anyway, that's how I see it.

John

wildcard163:

Sorry, but Johnbaker had it right except that the premise originally taught was regarding accuracy of each weapon and not velocity at the distance in question.

Submachine guns were often considered "trench brooms" and unlike todays excellant MP5 or the Uzi were not really designed for extended range accuracy.

Enemy combatants need not be German regulars so shotgun use by non-regular forces was still a possibility even if German soldiers did not use them.

Bountyhunter

Yeah, I sort of figured that, and I read right over the top of WW II scenerio, so I guess that leaves out the possibility of calling in TacAir, but I still like the idea of immense overkill, maybe I could have flagged down one of Patton's tanks, huh? <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
By the way... Happy Thanksgiving everybody!

Troy