from the news:

Man Fights Off Bear Then Shoots Himself

A hunter who managed to fight off an attack by a 700-pound bear then almost killed himself when he tripped over his gun.
Marin Cogev, 55, was hunting in woods near Milkovica in Bulgaria when he was attacked by the bear from behind.
The bear tried to crush him with its arms but he managed to hit the animal on the head with the butt of his shotgun and then fired a shot in the air.
The bear released his grip and ran away. But when Cogev turned to go after the bear he slipped, tripped and fell and his gun went off. The bullet grazed his head and he passed out.
A fellow hunter who found him after the attack said: "If the bullet had gone a few millimetres the other way he would be dead.
"It's amazing he managed to fight off such a huge bear and then tripped over and nearly killed himself."
The bear was later caught and shot by a team of hunters.
Local media reported Cogev was recovering in hospital after an operation on a punctured lung and broken ribs sustained when he was crushed by the bear.

Oh, my.

Sue

Once again the animal was the real victim here <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Susan:

Adrenaline is a multi-edged sword. Sometimes it gives you the power to overcome and prevail, and other times it gives you tunnel vision and action by impulse instead of reason.

Considering this individuals state of mind after fending off a bear attack, I can understand him not watching where his feet stepped and almost doing himself in.

Back in my junior high school days, we used to play team elimination (Before anal retentive politically correct thinking!) during gym classes. You had two volleyballs and two man teams. To move when you had possesion of the ball you had to bounce it off a wall (Bouncing it on the floor did not allow movement by the rules and good basketball players of today couldn't handle the restrictions.) then move and keep doing that until you shot the ball at someone. In one game my teammate was knocked out and he could get back in the game if I knocked someone else out. I managed to come up behind one of the teammembers that was covering his partner, grab the ball out of his hand, hit him in the face with it, continue moving to his partner from the bounce off his face, and hit his partner in the back of the head. I now had one ball in my hand, and the other under my foot when I sensed a movement to my left rear. Using my cat like reflexes (I was younger and faster back then.), I whirled around and hit MY OWN PARTNER in the face out of reflex and blurred tunnel vision. I got him back in when I knocked out one of the other targets and we went on to win that game by eliminating the rest of the gym class. All because of adrenaline and the need to survive in a game let alone fighting for your life in the wild.

That junior high school experience served me in good stead many years later. I was locking up my fathers grocery store for the day at the back door with the cash box and an Astra Cadix .38 caliber revolver loaded with five hollow point bullets in my left hand as I locked the door with the keys in my right hand. I had just switched the keys to my left hand with the cash box and the revolver to my right hand when I heard an unfamiliar voice behiind me say; "Don't move, this is a stickup.". I was standing on the one step from the ground level, turned around rapidly and with my finger on the trigger ended up pointing right into the face of the voice standing behind me. It turned out to be my best friend who had disquised his voice and decided to try and scare me. He succeeded, but not for the reason he had intended, a fake robbery. There is nothing like staring into a snub nosed revolver loaded with bullets you can see just before the moment of death. I didn't shoot because I identified the target before firing, but I almost beat the crap out of him and almost suffered a heart attack in the process. Even thogh he knew I did defensive handgun tactics regularly, until that moment, he never knew how serious and how good at it I was. If it had been an unrecognizable face, I would have shot without looking to see if he was armed. Needless to say, he never did anthing like that again, and now almost 40 years after that happened, my hands shake as I write this.

That game of "Elimination" (Something anal retentive politically correct types think is anti-social.) made me realize the importance of identifying your target, and saved my best friends life years later.

Bountyhunter <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I've heard it said that In the same incident where Bill Hickock shot his good friend (by mistake), he also shot a passing dog.

Not a good man to startle.

Presumed Lost:

Read my edited post.

Bountyhunter

Bountyhunter, you're absolutely correct about adrenaline. Where I began to have trouble with his actions is where it said "... when Cogev turned to go after the bear ..."

When you go on the attack, you need to have all your mental ducks lined up in a row, and NOT be running in How Dare He Attack ME mode.

Sue

When you are in a situation where an immediate desicion is required, the only thing that can keep you from doing something stupid is proper conditioning. You must at least have mental excersises for that. Stoneage instincts paired with high-tech equippment often produce catastrophic results. Usually the action is completed before you regain your ability to think clearly and act in a sensible way. The resulting actions are often hard to understand in hindsight.

Well said. You couldn't be more correct. Many people have been killed from "How Dare He Attack ME mode" after already surviving the initial encounter.

In a word... yep. I dont know if it's the "only" thing but it's certainly the main thing. Training training training which is mostly repetition repetition repetition. As former martial arts instructor I can tell you that in most marital arts schools, even at the most advanced levels you are still required to practice very basic offensive and defensive moves over and over and over again even though you've been doing them for years. The reason for this is not because the instructor is afraid you'll forget how to perform basic movements but rather that because if you repeat the same reaction litterally thousands of times, then eventually if becomes almost automatic. Positive target identification (and a bazillion other things) can be trained in the same way.

Susan:

For crying out loud!!!!!!!!-------he's a guy, male of the species and pumped up besides; what does logical thought have to do with it? <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Bountyhunter <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Well... yeah. What was I thinking????

Sue

LMAO ... too true ... my wife would agree completely.

Susan:

You have to quit dating those "California Sensitive Guys" who always consider the other sides take on things.

I think the male of all species is inclined to try for the last show of power whether winning or losing a fight because I believe it is part of the genetic makeup allowing the strong to survive so that the species continues.

Besides, if it wasn't for all us "macho halfwits", there would be no California and therefore no sensitive guys in the United States.

Bountyhunter <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I have to think about that for a minute, Bountyhunter! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Actually, most of the guys I know tend to be heavy on what women call "testosterone intelligence":

They all hunt, but I wouldn't want to be in the same county when they are.

They are champions of hot loads... in town, esp. (& hollow points are for sissies).

When asked what happens to bullets that miss, they give me a blank look. I guess they use projectiles that evaporate.

One guy went after a bear with just a chunk of firewood as a weapon.

But I must admit, the nearly-local Darwin Award-Winner who is my favorite of all time is the guy that decided to rob a GUN SHOP here in WA, a state that probably has more CC permits than any other US state (the rest of the pop. don't have permits).

He parked nearby, & had to walk around a black-&-white PATROL CAR parked at the front door. When he entered, he saw the UNIFORMED OFFICER leaning on the counter, drinking coffee and chatting with the shop owner. Serveral other people were browsing the shop.

The DAW then pulled out his weapon, fired a couple of rounds in the ceiling and yelled "This is a holdup!"

The officer & the shop owner apparently fired at the same time. Every customer instantly had his/her weapon out, covering the officer & shop owner, but held their fire.

If it wasn't for guys, there wouldn't be this kind of entertainment to admire! There wouldn't be any "Scariest Police Chasees" & other whacko video TV programs, and the news would be nothing but social events.

But, in all fairness, I must admit that when I first found this site and started going through the past threads, I was astounded at the intelligence and knowledge of the people here which are, obviously, mostly guys.

So, keep it up -- you're doing good!

Sue

Hear that guys! Reason 1001 to carry on! <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Afirmative, Roger, 10-4, loud and clear. I always knew we provided entertainment for the fairer sex. I just never knew to what extent before now. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Sing it again, bounty...ugh...my turn, get firewood & meat

Good Points fellos about not going after the Bear for Pure Revenge, etc.

But some Food for Thought concerning the other side of things too.

Which are, -What if the Bear shud again change it's mind!? To again go back on the Attack!?

Additionally, the Bear knows his initial victim is wounded. He (or She) could wait things out from nearby, -or move in to try to more actively Finish his Victim Off!

This Bear Victim may have been Reacting Rationally, -and Not so Rashly. [color:"black"] [/color] [email]brian[/email]

>>What if the Bear shud again change it's mind!? To again go back on the Attack!?

Why would it do that? A bear will only attack a human for one of two reasons - it's defending itself or its young against a perceived threat, or it's looking for an easy meal. If it thinks you're a threat, then attacking it is going to tick it off big time. If it's looking for a meal, then it probably thinks you're dead and pointing out its mistake is not the wisest move.

>>Additionally, the Bear knows his initial victim is wounded. He (or She) could wait things out from nearby, -or move in to try to more actively Finish his Victim Off!

Bears don't much care whether you're wounded or not. If it thinks you're wounded, that's only a good reason to move in and finish the job. If it wants to finish you off, it'll just walk in and do it.

Black bears that kill humans for food (rare, but it does happen) will usually treat them like any other animal they kill - they'll drag it around in the dirt, then leave it for a couple of days until it gets nice and gamy and softer to chew. Often, they'll bite a chunk out of the buttocks to tide them over. As far as I'm aware, there's only ever been one recorded case where a grizzly killed a human for food - all the other attacks have been because the human startled the grizz, got between a mother and her cubs, or was just too plain stupid to realize the bear was getting upset with them. And even in that one case, the victim was an amateur nature photographer who was probably taking care not to make a noise - the last thing you want to do in grizzly bear territory, since it greatly increases the risk of surprising one.

Well Folks:

It has come to the head known as "litigation".

I read on the web today that someone is sueing a school district for allowing young children to play "Dodgeball" (Also known as "War", "Elimination", and probably a host of other names).

It seems an 8 year old girl was playing "Dodgeball" in the school gym, fell down and broke her elbow.

Next thing you know, all tree houses will be outlawed, and no one will be allowed to have trees higher than 3 feet tall on their property because a heck of a lot more kids and adults get hurt falling out of trees than playing "Dodgeball".

When will this insanity end?

Bountyhunter <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Gee... and they wonder why the younger generation of children are namby pamby little wimps.
Whats wrong with breaking an elbow? I've climbed a mountain, climbed over my school gate, jumped off my school building, rappelled down a 5 storey tower and crawled through a storm drain. Though I've never broken anything, I have twisted my ankle twice. Got lots of cuts, bumps and bruises but I'm just fine... But hey, I'm a guy, I wear my battle scars with pride. Girls on the other hand may not like scars all over their body. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
I say its better to break something when you are young and heal faster than when you are old and frail.

Well the Bear did initially attack from behind, (for one or both of the two reasons you've given), -was then startled off, -before the Hunter then accidentally further wounded himself. (the Wisdom or Non-Wisdom of his going after the Bear, -being another though connected matter. Nevertheless, he may well have *Not* done so out of Pure Spite, etc.)

You may or may not have some point, -in asking why a Bear may do as I suggested it might. You may well know more about Bears than I. Your West Canadian Rockies have Plenty Larger and More Bears than we!, -though PA is far from a Bear Poor State as well! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> (Every year we have up to several Blacks, wandering down into our Pittsburgh Suburbs!) Thanks for giving such Input.

Were I in the Situation though, -I wouldn't want to Risk or Trust, -in the Bear's possible Neutrality or "Kindness"! While not immeadiately going after it out of Revenge, Pride, or Spitefulness, etc, -as did this Hunter possibly have, -I would at least maintain a Good Watch, as I soon set about extricating myself from the general area.

I think that I have read about / heard about in films etc, -of Bears being known to come back for Further Investigation / Change of Mind. This is where I was coming from. "Perceived Threat" and "Easy Meal" can figure into this as well. This need not be an Either / Or situation.

And if the Bear possibly would come back, -it wouldn't be out of the same sort of Pure Human Pride, Spite, and Revenge, -as the Hunter *Possibly* had! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]aardwolfe[/email]