Hi

I'm new here, so forgive me if I am treading on any toes asking what seem to be stupid questions.

I have been a little confused by the acronyms around the site; EDC, BOB etc; but I think I have them straight in my head.

I enjoy recreational camping and when I set off I tend to take little, that way I can enjoy the hike without lugging unneccessary gear with me. I tend to carry a few things around with me at all times (knives, tools etc) but living in the countryside no-one gives them a second glance.

The information discussed here is fascinating but my main question is, how often do you folks actually test out the kits you have assembled? By testing, I suppose I mean just getting up and wandering off into the woods for three days to see how you fare. I like to think that I could get up and head off camping at the drop of a hat (the benefits of being self-employed). I would grab a pack, throw a bit of food into it and that would be me set for a long weekend; but I know that I will be comfortable having done that before.

I understand that the main focus here is preparing for a sudden disaster or stranding and how one might best survive long enough to be rescued but those situations are, if one is fortunate, rare. So how do you go about confirming that you are carrying what you need, and are informed enough to use it?

Thanks!

Nick.

Hmmm. Not sure where you're heading with your question. My general answer to your question is "often" in the course of a year, although not, in the sense I think you mean it, for 3 days at a whack.

I use EDC items... every day.

I use items in what some might term a "ready pack" in a minor way at least once a week and in a major way at least twice a month. One might consider it a second stage of a 3 stage BoB, although it's a bit more than that in some respects and far more ubiquitous than simply a BoB.

I practice the principles "in the woods" (& on the water) quite regularly and perhaps just as important, I teach them over and over again - hands-on - to a number of folks.

Some folks here are much more hardcore than me.

Tom

What I got from the book "Deep Survival" is that you really can't know for sure. It's more of a mental attitude thing than anything, and there's no way to know what you've got until you need it. I've heard of a survival instructor with everything basically just giving up and dying. One the other hand, a 14 year old girl with nothing walked out of the Amazon jungle from a plane crash, carrying nothing. What's most important is the will and determination to survive. What we carry with us just gives that will and determination something to work with.

Our urban society has created a mental wall between us and wilderness greater than any asphalt or concrete edifice to our greatness. Even campers venture out with more junk than a space walking astronaut. The wild places were our home for more generations than this curious construction called the container; fire ember basket, brush shelter, mesopotamian city state, mega urban centers supplanting entire ecosystems and finally crematoriums to complete the circle. Nature is neutral. It has far more important concerns than trying to kill us ( though often deserved.) The native indians of Mexico's Grand Desierto didn't even bother with rabbit skin cloaks. At night they simply piled into a group huddle for warmth. My one visit there people crawled into sleeping bags inside of tents with coleman lanterns and heaters and still stayed half awake because of strange noises. I fell into such a deep sleep this miserable coyote scent marked me <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. My preparations? When I was entertaining lady friends in university a tie hung on the door was fair warning "do not disturb." I just hang that same mental tie on a scrub oak when heading out <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />.

Who was the survival instructor? <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

"Who was the survival instructor?"

I don't remember, read the book. I might even be remembering it wrong too- I know there was one story about an armed services survival instructor who went on a rafting trip, fell out, and waved off the help of the guides because he "knew how to survive", and then got sucked into a rotor and drowned. But I seem to remember another story in there about someone else who was properly prepared, and didn't survive. Oh- I remember, it was in one of Doug's survival stories on this site. He was a survival instructor for the Civil Air Patrol.

But my point remains, that the only way to know for sure if you can survive a real situation is to actually put yourself in real danger- but that's even more stupid than not being prepared. But being prepared with both gear and knowledge will give you more confidence, and thus you'll be more likely to have the right attitude. And my other point is that attitude is the most important factor.

Of course, I'm still quite new at this kind of thinking, I'm only repeating back what I've been reading here and in books. It helps my learning process to put out a distillation of what I've learned, and if you tell me I'm full of crap, well, I've learned something.

Maybe I am the only one that does this but in addition to normal lightweight backpacking I also regularly (once every 6 weeks) camp with a lot less than any lightweight backpacker. I am constantly trying to take less and less with me and eventually get to the point where I have only a knife on me. I have a thread in the Campire forum with a list near the top of the thread of where I am currently at as far as the amount and exactly what gear I'm taking with me currently. Not to the point of taking "only" a knife yet but I may get there or very close to there soon. On these trips I am actually carrying a lot less than what I have in even my very smallest survival kit. Even when doing my regular backpacking (regular for me anyway) which I do almost every other weekend, I really dont take that much. No tent or lanterns or any of that junk . If the weather is going to be bad I "may" pitch a tarp and ground cloth with some lightweight plastic and/or if the bugs are biting I may put a mosquito net over my head while I sleep but otherwise I lay out a pad (often improvised) and my trusty compact sleeping bag tie the dog to tree so she doesn't run off after a coon and enjoy the woods. If this is the type of practice you refer to then I guess you could say I practice with a large kit every other weekend and a very small kit roughly about once every six weeks. The place where I lack realism is time. I haven't had a chance to really get away for more than a long weekend so far and I just started doing the knife-only camping (if you can call it that) in the past year. Hopefully after the first of the year I can take some vacation to do some regular lightweight (or large kit) and also some small kit (or knife-only) camping for a week or so at a time.

Brian,

I've been going the opposite way on my camping. My gear has increased enough so that I can just barely fit the dog, the wife, and all the gear into my Accord Wagon. I'm thinking of getting a mini-van.

I've been on a lot of canoe trips with just a canoe, a wife, and two duluth packs. I had a trip a few years ago where I got extraordinarily uncomforable, because it rained for 3 days straight. Now I get claustrophobic in a tent when it rains. I've found a campground that has campsites almost as beautiful, and I can take short day trips into the BWCA (properly equipped for the unexpected, of course). We bought a 6 person tent this year, and this time I didn't get claustrophobic when a rainstorm came through.

But this also helps me realize how much attitude can play a part in survival. What happens if I have to "land out" with a plane, and it's raining and I'm having trouble staying dry? Am I going to panic? I just don't know.

Consider yourself lucky. If I were to bring my wife with me she would "require" a LOT more gear. That's why it's just me and the dog. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Ya the psycological aspects of survival are the ones that you can never truely be prepared for. I suppose you just prepare as best you can and then see what happens if/when youre ever forced in to such a situation. I just got a copy of Deep Survival and I'm dieing to read it but right now I have too many other less interesting texts that I have to read.

I'm really lucky- she can carry 2 duluth packs! With that, the 45 lb kevlar canoe, and a 20 lb day pack on my back, we make it through portages in one pass. That makes them so much less unpleasant!

Chris, you're one of the hardcores, eh? I mean, anyone who wears eau du coyote...

For me - in my experiences so far - practicing and really being caught between a rising tide and a beachless cliff have not been the same. One either rises to the occasion when it matters or not, and if fate is not unduly cruel, one manages with what the situation tosses at us. The knowledge and any bits of gear are well worth gaining, but it's still just not the same in a practice situation as it is in a real situation.

I generally believe in practicing with/how one reasonably expects he/she might someday find themselves situated. IME, again, having some accustomed gear fail/go missing is not that big of a deal most of the time - if it's critical, one improvises from whatever may be available. We're basically a tropical animal who has adapted mostly through making and using "gear" to survive most climates and weather on this planet.

There are plenty of situations where some bit of gear is absolutely required - I can't survive in vacuum without a suit and breathing mix. If I fall in frigid water without an immersion suit and have no way to emerge from the water, I'm gonna die. I personally cannot survive long naked above the treeline at sub-freezing temperatures, and so on. Let's leave those sorts of exercises in futility aside.

It is useful to stay out a night or two with only the waist pack / day pack a prudent person always carries when venturing out. No cheating, folks - pick your real pack and don't succumb to adding whatever you''ve been meaning to add to it... (I use a different day pack in Winter than the rest of the year, and that is realistic. It's still just a daypack and I really do carry it all the time.)

It is useful to go "car camping" with only what you normally carry in your vehicle. It is useful to camp off your horse/ATB/ATV with only what you normally pack.

IMHO, doing things like that are reasonable enough for most of us to practice at least once a year. Twice a year, with one in the "bad" weather season is 10 times better - for me, that means early rainy yucky spring as the "bad" weather. I admire the knowledge of folks who are proficient with some useful abo skills and try to learn some from time to time, but life is so short... I'm not willing to practice going strictly abo because I do not expect that I will ever *need* to do that. "Use what you've got..."

From upwind, Regards,

Tom

Learning the concept of "reducing ones exposure to risk" is fundamental to survival and one that can be carried EDC with no weight in your pockets and at no cost.

Flip

I would love to go camping, with the least amount of kit, testing skills ( knowing the theory helps but practise makes perfect) but my wifes idea of rough camping is a 2 star stone cottage in Brittany.

Stokie: My wife and I enjoy dual vacations every year. We find a nice rental cabin in a state park, or near one. The cabin has comfy beds, hot showers, a full kitchen, etc.

She stays in the cabin, I sleep in the woods. We go on nice day hikes together. I use the cabin as a base for one or two solo survival trips.

It seems to work out pretty well.

Bear

I just take the dog (if anyone) and the wife usually goes on a weekend-long shopping binge. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

>>Chris, you're one of the hardcores, eh? I mean, anyone who wears eau du coyote...

Tom, I think you may be on to a viable product idea here. It could open a whole line. The bottle of fox urine you buy for few bucks in the garden center could turn into a fortune in tiny bottles sold as "perfume!" <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />