Okay, although I can not find the posts at the moment, I could almost swear I have seen atleast two people imply that they have done what they call "one-knife" camping on more than one occasion so if it's you please speak up. No armchair quarterbacking please... real experience. I have some questions that require knowledgeable answers and I am having trouble finding the information I need and I don't have the money or the vacation time required to take primitive skills course at this time (not that I have found any good ones anyway). Basically for a long time now I have been camping with less and less gear each time I go, and now I am almost to this point but to get past the point I am currently at I have a few questions that require knowledgeable answers. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> We can do it privately via PM or email if you wish or we can exchange information in this thread to share with anyone else that may be interested.

Before you ask... where I'm at right now is:

Clothing appropriate for the coldest possible weather that would be encountered (within reason).
Large sheet of plastic (which only gets used when I get caught in the rain).
Metal tin (for boiling water).
Medium-sized fixed blade knife (4" blade).
Mainstay rations (1 per day).
Book of matches (windproof/waterproof).

So far I have not done this for more than 72 hours since (as previously mentioned) I'm a little low on vacation time until the 1st of the year.

At the moment my questions are these:

How many days in a row do you camp on average or what have been your longest and shortest trips?
Do you purify your water and if so, how?
Do you procure and prepare food and if so, how?
Do you dress appropriately for the weather or do you over or under dress?

When it comes right down to it.

A pack of cancer sticks a lighter, clothes for weather, boots and raincoat and I am good for 72 hrs minimum. IMHO the 72 hrs kit theory is bit flawed as I believe its the 73rd hr and beyond that could be troublesome for some.

Flip

How many days in a row do you camp on average or what have been your longest and shortest trips?
48 hrs to one week

Do you purify your water and if so, how?
Boiling. I usually try to hike, camp, kayak <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> close by the water. I have two Neglegen (SP) bottles that I keep around and they are full when I start my trek. When I'm done with one and there is a fire I will fill it up. If there is none I will use Aqua tabs from my psk. Exception to this rule is when I go ocean kayaking. I bring most of my water than.

Do you procure and prepare food and if so, how?
Mostly MREs, Dry hard crackers with jar of PB. I tried fishing and was able to catch some but I don't have a licence (no point of buying one for just few weekends so maybe next year) so I hate beaing just another poacher.

Do you dress appropriately for the weather or do you over or under dress?
Depends on the season. First of all everything is done in layers. In the winter time or when it's cold I will put extra stuff on which I can take off. But I don't overdue it to the point that sweat is trickling down my back. Summer is different since I sweat like crazy I try keeping everything light but I will throw rain jacket and fleece there just in case. I find that wrapping my feet in a fleece at night keeps me very comfortable.

Still can't do one knife only. I mean I can see it happening but I take my Wave and either SOG fixed blade or Microtech folder.

I've tried it twice for a weekend at a time. I took all my gear, but tried to limit myself as much as possible. The second time all I used is my knife, a BSA hotspark, and some tin foil. The weather was good so it was fine, though I think if the weather took a turn it wouldn't have been as fun. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I cant take any other gear. It's just too tempting to be lazy and use it. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> What I do instead is leave it at home and then in the interest of being safe while I train myself, I choose a campsite near the trailhead and on a heavily traveled trail and of course in an area that I am extremely familiar with.

When I say one knife only I really mean it and getting to that point seems tuff. I suppose I could lose the sheet of plastic easy enough right now. I would just have to spend more time constructing my shelter so I am prepared for rain if it should come on unexpectedly. I suppose I could also find a way to procure food (probably plant food only considering the short duration of my trips) and then lose the mainstay rations... again more time and energy consumed. Im not going to go without food though since I am just training my skills and having fun. I have gone a day with no food before so I'm not worried about whether or not I could handle it psycologically or not. The matches I could ditch and start a fire with a hand drill as long as its dry and I'm lucky but this is very time consuming and if its wet then I have problems because my hand drill skills arent that good (yet). <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. I could put a paracord lanyard on my knife and use it for a bow drill (with which I can create fire quite reliably in dry conditions) but then that would be cheating! Unfortunatly I'm not skilled enough (yet) at constucting natural cordage to make a cord strong enough for a bow drill.

I guess my bigest problem is the water container. I have to be able to boil my water. There is no way to get around that one because the water where I camp simply isn't clean enough. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Without some type of man made container like foil or a soup can or something similar I am really at a loss on this one. Fashioning clay pots is certainly out of the question as is carving a wooden bowl since I would probably be dehydrated before I finished them. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> This is the one that really stumps me. How can I boil water with nothing more than a camp fire and a knife. For the purposes of this exercise I also refrain from using my clothing as well, so I'm not boiling water in a boot (yuk) or using a shoelace or piece of torn tshirt for bow drill cordage either. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Ideas?

If the soil isn't to permeable just dig a hole, fill with water and drop heated stones in until it boils.

One problem I have with building natural shelters is that I have too much respect for the environment to go messing it up if I don't have to. I feel that we are intruders on nature, rather than there to conquer it. In a survival situation, of course, I'll do what I have to, but how do I practice that?

Brain,


Why only a knife?

What are you afraid of?

What do you want to ultimately accomplish with the one knife?

it's (almost) the ultimate test of you skills. It's more for people who are more than just in to prepareness and survival. It's the field or bushcraft kind of thing.

Excellent idea! Thanks for pointing that out. Seems so obvious that I feel I should have thought of it but between this thread and a past thread I put on BCUK, nobody has mentioned that until now so I guess I won't feel too bad for not thinking of it. Youre a genius Chris! Thanks!

A good question, and one that suspected someone would ask eventually. As PC2K mentioned already, it does go a bit beyond just preparedness, (which is why I posted in the Campfire forum) <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> and IMO it is "almost" the ultimate test of skill.

From a survival/preparedness point of view, the motivation is pretty simple:

Firstly it is a great confidence builder in that if I already know I can survive with only a knife, then if/when placed in a true survival situation with my EDC/PSK/BOB/etc I will most likely be that much more confident, calm collected, unafraid and as a result, thinking more clearly. I suppose for some it could generate over confidence and that could be bad but for me overconfidence is not going to happen... I'm just not that arrogant. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Secondly, you certainly don't have to search long in order to find an abundance of true survival stories (both successful and unsuccessful) in which people were separated from most or all of their gear. I know the knee-jerk response to that from the ETS crew would probably be "that's why you must have a PSK/EDC that is small enough to keep on your person all the time," but if you're truthful with yourself you must realize that you could still be separated from it and also (for most of us) it just isn't truely on our person 100% of the time. Just look at the recent story about the poor guys that were not only separated from any gear they may have had but even a good portion of their clothing was destroyed (burned) in the crash.

There is no question in my mind that primitive skills are an extremely important part of survival/preparedness and IMO one-knife camping is a great exercise in learning to become an expert with the one survival tool that is always with you..... your brain! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Of course I would not lie to you and deny that I am very much into bushcraft and primitive living/survival skills as a hobby and I truely enjoy camping with less and less gear each time I go out and that is also a big part of why I do this. Since I started doing this I have found it to be very enjoyable and it's certainly not because of the taste of the Mainstay rations. It's something deeper than that... something I can't really explain.

I have built all of my shelters completely from trees that were already dead and I break them down before I break camp. When I do need something from a live plant for something other than a shelter (food/fiber/seeds/liquid extract/etc) I take it from the plant in a way that will not kill the plant and/or in an area where that plant is quite abundant. When I leave a campsite, the only thing I leave behind are foot prints and my human scent.... sometimes not even footprints. <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I've never tried myself to make a container to boil water, but I have heard of people maiking a bowl by slowly burning a depresion in wood until a bowl is formed.

S.

In a real survival situation with a source of fresh water but no purification gear, you'd just drink it and hope to not get sick. Chances of actually getting sick aren't that high. Since you're doing a simulation, I think you can bring some pills along and pretend you were using the water untreated. It's just one variable you're removing.

I knew of a guy in Boston who was jilted by a romantic partner. He was extremely upset and depressed, but he couldn't make up his mind whether to commit suicide or not. So he decided to drink a glass of (disgusting, polluted) water from the Charles River and see what happened. He did so, and waited. Nothing happened, and he is still around. I don't know if he's any smarter than before. Anyway, untreated water isn't necessarily fatal.

Wow. I guess that says a lot about the fear of contaminated water our society has developed. Yes, there's a chance you might get sick by drinking from the Charles, and it's disgusting, and if you drink it every day you'll probably get cancer. But it's not an effective method of suicide!

A decent lean-to or debris hut can be constructed from downed deadwood and grasses or reeds. None of this is destructive or disturbing to the surrounding area. While a shelter made in this fashion might not last for decades, it will definitely do the job for a weekend, and rebuilding on the next trip is good practice (and fun if you enjoy doing it). You don't have to build a two room cabin to get out of the wind and/or rain. Get out, try it, and have some fun with it.

Troy

The knife isn't out of fear, a knife is the MOST useful, versatile, and valuable TOOL you can have in the wilderness.

You can make pretty good containers from birches, supposedly you can even cook with them. Oetzi carried ember in a birch container IIRC.

Yes this will make and effective bowl but it takes a long time. Is a lot of burn, carve, burn, carve, burn, carve and then a little burn, carve added on. I think I might dehydrate before finishing it and getting water boil then cool enough to drink. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Nonetheless I'll give it a try next time.

Not only is it the most useful but also a good knife the most difficult to tool improvise. It is also something that (unlike a PSK) is actually on my body (or on my night stand as I sleep) 100% of time 24/7/365.

No kidding. If I was afraid of sasquatch or the boogie man then I would bring a firearm or (more likely) wouldnt be sleeping in the woods every other weekend to begin with. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Funny thing about these infamous birch containers. When I posed this question at BCUK I almost immediatly received a flood of responses suggesting that I whip up a birch bark container as if these guys had done it hundreds of times and it was as quick and easy as tieing your shoe. However, when I inquired as to how this is done the room became very silent. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> A bunch of armchair QB responses? LOL...probably so. If anyone has info on how this is done I would love to see it as it seems it would be a useful skill. Google search showed me what some very fancy ones look like but nothing about the construction of a simpler version that would be more quickly made. I'm also not sure that there is any birch near my part of the world. My feild guide says there is but I have yet to see it. I run across mostly Cedars, Mequite, Oaks, Pines, Willows and Cottonwood.

Ya got a good point there. While I've seen several said birchbark containers, they've been museum pieces that closer resembled works of art. I've read articles on how it's done, and it seems like one of those skills that would take guite a bit of skill and patience, and considering the scarcity of birch trees (as compared to the time of the native Americans), and the fact that skirting a tree kills it, I'd just as soon make sure I've got a suitable pot/pan/bowl with me.

Troy

Seems like the best option so far is Chris' idea about simply digging a hole in the ground. In a survival situation I fully realize that you drink whatever you can find and if purification means drinking downstream of the rapid areas then sure you go with the best that you can muster up with little energy expenditure. This however is not a survival situation. I put myself out there like this intentionally on a regular basis so I really don't want to be visiting the doctor afterwards. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Perhaps I should just keep bringing the boiling tin or the MP1 tabs and a water bottle and be happy with that. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Either way I am going to see if I can dig a decent hole in ground and boil in it. After all that's why I do this is to try out new things and hone my skills (and of course I enjoy it thuroughly too). <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

If I can get it down to clothes, knife, and a tin cup (or water bottle and MP1 tabs), that is still better than where I'm at right now. BTW I have tried replacing the tin cup with foil a couple times. I am apparently no good with the foil. I always spring a leak. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Brain,



I did not say you were afraid of sasquatch or the boogie man and I did not say you were a coward either!
I was not trying to be offensive or ridicule with my questions however I probably should not of asked them on a very public forum.

You have extreme ideas about survival, a burning desire to achieve superior skills, which is great. That can only lead to good things.
You have a strong motivation to learn these skills for a reason and I think it is good idea to understand the real reason you are here. That's all.

I am well aware of the value of a knife and a kit. But they also can give you a false sense of security. I think experience is the one best teachers it will help you to respect the knowledge when it comes. Knowledge and experience will certainly keep you alive allot longer than that knife will.

Believe it or not!!

LOL Not a problem! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



Unless I get sick from unpurified water. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Uhhhh... Are you a shrink? <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Um ya ... that's why I am working towards no kit.


Uhhhhh ya ... I agree. Once again... this is why I do this to begin with!


You're suggesting I go naked and empty-handed instead of taking such unnecessary luxuries as a knife? LOL <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


I believe it! Trust me! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Right on Brain, Same Page.

"You're suggesting I go naked and empty-handed instead of taking such unnecessary luxuries as a knife? LOL "


Why not the Special Forces do.


Just in case.
Set up two camps one with all the necessary equipment and the other with just you. It is always good to have a partner handy either by phone or in person. Take all the necessary precaution first though.

I only say this because the old timers wont like me saying these things they do not like it extreme. They know you can easily get hurt, but the way I see it is that Danger is a great teacher if you Survive.

P.S. Remember Brain this is Dangerous stuff were talking about and not for inexperienced kids. I do not know your situation if you are not a legal adult do not do it!! Even in controlled situation things can quickly happen. I am a Rock Climber an I personal know people who have died and others who have been seriously hurt, one is in a wheel chair for the rest of his life because he broke his neck in a fall. This all happened because their egos were to big and they did not respect the mountain and the danger at hand. Before they knew it they were in trouble and could not turn back. Please do not forget what I say!!!

Experience is only available when you have gone through it, unfortuneately.

My experience with one-knife camping(and I have to admit, a pillow), makes it clear to me that it has to be for an extended period of time or else it is not worth the work I put into it. It turns into an uncomfortable hike with lots of sweat and little to show for it.

My first one-knife was unexpected as I was with a set of 'adults' going to a city two states away. I was left at the side of the road after one of the others had to barf. There was a swirl of people and garbage bags and water jugs and when I turned around, the van was leaving.

Now, I was in the middle of Illinois, on a country road, the last house I knew of was miles away, and I was 14. Yes, inexperienced. Yes, scared.

But I stayed where they dropped me off for 38 hours.

When they came back, my Mother was in the van with them, which she wasn't before having been in a different vehicle going to the event. The driver had a look on his face that was both relief and constipated.

When they found me, I had been able to make a small branch lean too, a fire and was munching on apples.

My Mother never let the driver of that van forget that time, and I never had a curfew that year. It was nice to have that trust.

Rena

Yep, I guess until I have vacation time available to take a whole week off, my best bet is to continue going with a small kit. That in itself is still fun and good experience too plus I get to really practice things like tarp pitching and boiling water in foil (which I currently need lots of practice with). <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Maybe I'll start calling it "PSK Camping" so I don't feel I am failing myself each time with the small amount of gear I have been bringing in addition to my trusty knife. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It really makes sence to camp with what you expect to use in your Personal Survival Kit. It helps to keep things fresh!

Mmmm! Survival Fresh PSK!

Rena

The thread has inspired me to change things a little for this trip. What I am going to do for this weekend is duplicate my kit and go with that. The only difference between the real kit and the practice kit is:

1. In the practice kit some pieces of equippment are slightly less expensive versions of what is in the real kit. For example I have better tinder in the real kit than in the practice kit.

2. I am not duplicating signalling and food procurring equipment since neither is used in a 2 night practice session. Before you say it.... yes I keep the real kit with me incase my practice session turns in to a real situation. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

3. The practice kit is packed loosely in a larger container. The real kit is currently (as of yesterday) packed VERY tightly in to the quintesential Altoids tin while the practice kit is the same items (minus signalling and food procurring equipment) packed quite loosely in a Maxpedition M2 belt pouch along with the real kit which will remain sealed.

4. I am bringing some HD foil to practice with. Although I don't keep it in my real kit, it is something I will be adding if I ever get any good with it... which is why I need to practice.

5. If I have time to stop at the store I am going to get a couple pie tins and try what Brenton suggested about using a small piece of folded pie tin in place of foil.

At this point the only things I plan to add that is not in the real kit is a Mainstay food ration and a cell phone. If I wimp out before I leave and throw in anything extra (I tend to do that sometimes) I will let ya know Sunday night or Monday morning when I return to civilization.

If you're learning something and still making it back home, it's not a failure <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />.

Troy

Good point!

Well, I made it back yet again so that's good. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> It rained the entire time I was out there so that made it more fun. I did (of course) "cheat" a little. I brought three extra "comfort" items. <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

1. CountyComm pocket-size AM/FM radio. No excuse for this one.
2. Bio Degradable toilet paper. I have wiped with leaves plenty of times. Don't need any more practice with this one. <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
3. Laborador Retriever. I brought her for fun and companionship but I would be lieing if I didn't admit that she benefits in other ways as well. She's proven herself as an effective racoon deterant (which is good since I camped at the same spot where a couple of those little masked bandits tried to steal some gear a couple weeks ago) and she also makes for a nice, soft, fur-lined, heated (doesn't even need batteries although I did share a Mainstay ration with her) pillow. Of course on second thought maybe bringing her wasn't such a cheat. I could almost consider her part of my wilderness PSK since she is always with me when I'm out in the woods! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I'd make her EDC if they would just let me bring her to work with me. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Bringing a dog isn't cheating. The worst thing you can do to a dog is to leave it at home. Particularly when you go camping!

I agree completely. That's why she would be EDC if I could convince the boss to let me bring her to work. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I dread the fact that soon she may be too old to go camping anymore. So far so good but she is getting up there in years so there's no telling how much longer she'll be able to handle the hikes w/ the rough terrain.

During my trips I used to take a Australian Sheepdog with my who respondent to the name of Bonnie (sometimes). As I was all alone she was great company walking off when lunch was brewing. Then just as I began sitting comforable I would feel her wet nose in my neck. Ambusing me from behind with her tail moving frantically <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The one sad thing was though that she would never come near a fire...her natural instinct was victorious over her desire to be with me <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

My Lab always puts me between herself and the fire. I use to have a German Shepherd that did the exact opposite but I believe that was the protectiveness that was bread in to him.

Another option, if you camp in the same area, is to leave yourself a buried cache. It's always there if you need it. However you won't be tempted to use it because you have to dig it up. For your purposes you could probably keep it simple with fresh water, more rations, space blanket/shelter materials, and matches. You can get more info from this link I got here a while back. Or Paladin Press has more info on caches.


Robert

That's a really interesting idea!

I have done something simmilar, but with a disposal hole.

Sometimes you just cannot pack out what you pack in.

Rena