After my previous posts in this thread regarding the morality of killing and more specifically killing via trapping I figured I'd stay away from this one. Well I failed. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> My wife is a vegetarian and I eat very little meat. I eat oily cold water fish once a week and any wild game that I may kill but that is about it. I refuse to buy processed meat other than the fish that my doctor (and family friend) insists that I eat. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> That being said I am a hunter. I grew up as a very avid hunter in fact. These days I go on maybe one weekend hunt per year primarily because I get all the meat I need for the year from one deer and a couple wild turkeys so there is really no point in returning again in the same year. I usually make the trip on opening weekend of Texas whitetail season. I have unlimitted access to 5000 acres of SW Texas land where I am the only person around other than a single ranch hand whom I have known since I was 12 years old, so it is certainly a hard opportunity to not take advantage of at least once a year. This weekend is actually opening weekend for SW Texas and I am going on my annual trip to my leased land which is what got me thinking about things as I read these threads. I don't hunt for trophies, I only kill animals that benefit the environment with their death and I use everything... and I really mean everything. A lot of people say that they use "everything" but I am for real and I have picutres to prove it <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. The area where I hunt is extremely over-populated with female whitetail so for a skilled stalker (no I dont use blinds) and marksman/archer, finding a large mature doe to take is far from an impossible task. I usually try to take her on the first morning if I can then spend the rest of the weekend processing the meat, skin, bone and even preparing sinew. I also dont take any food with me when I hunt and the nearest civilization is about 20 miles away so if I dont take her on the first morning then either I'm gonna be real hungry or I'm gonna be eating jack rabbit. Trust me... the jack rabbits in SW TX are the size of small dogs and dont tast nearly as good as the little bunnies some of you may have eaten in the past. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Ah but I digress (as usual).

Now I will get to the point (I know you're thinking "finally he gets to the point" <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) In all my years of hunting I have never made a single kill that I did not have a guilty feeling about. Not once. I'm the kind of person that doesn't even squish insects in the house if I can cup them in my hand and take them outside. Every kill I have every made in my life (including mice, rats, a snake, fish, fox, deer, dove, quail, phesant, ducks, geese, mountain goat, rabbit squirrel and a whole lot more) has left me feeling bad "afterwards". I will not get in to the spirituality of it all since it is something I feel too strongly about to debate objectively but I will say simply that I am extremely spiritual about my killing.... extremely! So you ask yourself, "if he feels so bad after making a kill, how/why does he continue?" Well that takes us back to the spiritual aspects which I'm not getting in to (not today anyway <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />).

There is something my father told me as a small boy that I want to share with the rest of you. Unlike a lot of other stuff he told me growing up, these words have stuck very well in my mind over the years. One time after a kill when I was young and first started hunting I was standing over my deer about to split him/her open I asked my father if he ever felt bad after making a kil..l. if he got an ill feeling standing over his deer before inserting the knife to split him/her open. Much to my surprise he said "yes I do, every single time." This really surprised me to hear him say this. Then he said what really has stuck with me for all these years and always will. Something that I will pass on to future generations hopefully.

He said "I get that feeling every time I make a kill and I hope everyone does. I think the day that you make a kill and don't feel bad afterwards, then that is the day when you should give up hunting."

Maybe that's the difference between a hunter and a killer? Maybe not. I won't debate that but I did want to shared his words with you guys (and girls) because based on what I am reading, there are a lot of you that will understand those words and take them with you as I have.

For me, I don't think the word "bad" accurately describes my feelings most of the time. It's a very intense feeling, most akin to sadness, I suppose, but there is another thread in there as well. Sad, but OK. I am not articulate enough to describe it. It is for certain an intense, primevial feeling for me. "Spiritual" is accurate if not mis-interpreted to mean "religious" in my case.

A few I felt unequivocably bad about, such as accidentally running over a large black snake with my ATB and having to euthanize it. (... so we ate it for dinner that night and the salted dried skin is tucked away in my shop awaiting a worthy use...).

Enough said by me.

AyersTG:

Who sells "ALL TERRAIN BOATS"; (ATB).?





Sorry, I had to throw that in there as you all are getting way too meloncholy, and California sensitive on me.

Bountyhunter

LMAO

hmmm...

I was not going to add my own 2cents until I saw this post...

Killing is killing, whether for meat or for sport or for power or for privilage. I like my meat. I am an omivore and have very little compulsions about it. I respect anyone who is a vegitarian or has gone completely Vegan. It just isn't for me.

To get the meat, it needs to be killed, then butchered. I cry every time I kill something, from a mouse up to the last deer. I weep knowing that it will be missed by someone/something else. Then I get on to butchering.

I came to hunting from the kitchen side of things. Chicken, fish, lamb - I cleaned and butchered it all from the time I could hold a knife before I ever went hunting. It is amazing how simmilar chicken and sheep are when taking them apart. I figure because I have been a cook for (gulp) decades now, I know the anatomy of animals well enough to know the cleanest way to kill them.

I still prefer to get the 1/2 of mutten every fall from a local farm and butcher and preserve it myself. Being introduced to what you are going to be eating just turns it for me, but I have helped with the process on the farm, and can say I have used many different ways to obtain my food. In a pinch, I could take down the largest animal in the area to feed me and mine, but I would prefer not to have to.

And, yes, I have done it (though it was a rabbit) without a firearm.

Rena
(thinking it must be a guy thing, most guys I know can't do the butchering after the kill - I deal with blood once a month, so what is a little gore form my food?)
<img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I Appreciate your Advice. I can't say when that will be however. It can be a few years from now, -or many. I possibly may not get around to it ever. Maybe a Survival Situation will pop up and Force me! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It is Good Advice from you in any event, -and I do Sincerely Appreciate it!

I Do happen to be PRO Hunting!, -and NOT Anti-Hunting. Even if I personally Don't Care Much / Havn't yet gotten around to, -actually doing such myself.

Again, -a Real Hunt sometime for at least some Practice, -is Good Advice.

Whenever I may do such, -I'll describe the Experience as you Suggest. Thanks again for your Views and Advice! I mean that Sincerely. [color:"black"] [/color] [email]bountyhunter[/email]

i must say i have done lots of hunting and am not sure how good the practice is ... unless ofcourse im placed in a survival situation with a 7mm mag and a 3x9 scope or a 40# compound bow ... now if that happens them my expertise will shine <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

To those of you who've commented on "Begging for Forgiveness from the Animal's Ghost", -I can see Pros and Cons to that. Feel a Respect / Reverence toward the Animal, Yes, -But Forgiveness Begging is not Neccessarily so Neccessary!

Animals themselves of course routinely kill other Animals. As Neccessary, -and with let's say an "Unspoken and Understood Respect".

Even an Animal Grazing on Grass, -is doing so towards another Life Form! (and you Vegetarians as well!)

Does the Bear beg Forgiveness from the Salmon's Spirit or Ghost?!

No, -it just kills and Eats, -as it Honestly does find Neccessary, -for it's Livlihood and Survival!

And we too, provided we're so doing, -and as part of the Total Web of Nature and Life, -Shouldn't Feel any Guiltier!

That said, and on the other hand, -with our being Higher, Spiritual and Intelligent Beings, -who know at least some things Better, -Perhaps something can be further said, -for "Begging Forgiveness from the Animal's Ghost".

But again, -in many Respects, -I don't feel that going that Far, -may be really Neccessary!

Real Respect and Regard for the Animal, -Yes! "Forgiveness Begging"?, -Not Neccessarily So, -and perhaps a No! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]brian[/email]

I like the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy take on this issue. They developed an animal that actually wanted to be eaten, and was capable of saying so, clearly and distinctly. Tasty too, I would presume. It would even "nip out and shoot himself". Humanely.

I should expand. Learning the psychology of killing and the basics of stalking and animal behavior is certainly effective training, but only to an extent. My point is that sitting in a blind with a high powered rifle waiting for deer to come to a corn feeder isnt exactly the type of training that is going to keep you alive when youre stuck in the woods with a knife and a PSK.m <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Even hunting without blind or feeder or rifle and stalking with a compound bow (as I have often done) really isn't gonna help much when it's just you, your pocket knife and your psk.