If you do decide to try hunting, especially using snares and the like, make sure you check out your state and local hunting laws first. A conservation officer will be more than happy to help you understand the laws.

I really like the advice to join a local hunting club/organization - a very sensible way to start.

I perceive to some degree this is drifting from the original intent of the poster regarding the need/desire to learn to hunt. If so, I suggest we can start a new thread or with the permission of Christina and/or Chris/Doug we can continue our discourse on this thread.

I too have fasted for several days, under controlled conditions, i.e. at home/work, not in the woods or out in the wet and cold for any significant period of time. I agree with you that missing a few meals for most folk is not an issue and is most likely beneficial. I, however diverge with this belief when the body is under stress, such as being borderline hypothermic. I believe and think that I can support my point of view with anecdotal and scientific data that an individual can prevent or recover from hypothermia more readily if they have a ready source of quickly digestible and sustainable calories. In addition, I would contend that an individual under both physical and emotional stress could function with greater purpose and coherence if they have that same ready source of quickly digestible and sustainable calories. I have witnessed many individual performing strenuous activities, associated with rescues quickly decompensate due to a lack of energy reserves. I feel that even for short term survival, an individual who has a few “power bars” or other energy providing food source will be able to resist the development of hypothermia, be able to perform activities associated with the survival mode (such as shelter building, fire making, etc.), as well as make more coherent decisions then an individual who is lacking an energy source. Pete

>>Deliberately going without food in a survival situation when food is readily available just seems counterintuitive to me. <<

Wow, I don't THINK I suggested anything like that- that was certainly never the intent. When you're in a survival situation, you do whatever helps you survive.. of course.

The point is that food is a fairly low priority in MOST cases. You're not going to starve in days, It takes weeks (at least), and if you're devoting all of your time in trying to find food because you're terrified of hunger (the fear is far worse than the hunger itself), you're using up time and resources that might be better used actually helping you live through the experience, rather than avoiding a little discomfort. In other words, you're out setting up a snare line, or fish lines when maybe you should be building a signal fire, or just walking out with that energy...

I also PERSONALLY feel that food items in a survival kit *generally* take up room and weight better used for other things.

Make your own choices, but, for my money, I have a fleece cap in my pouch that takes about as much room and less weight than two "power" (read SUGAR) bars, and I think it will probably do as much to stave off hypothermia... and certainly for a LOT longer. The point is not to ignore any resources available for survival when it happens, the point is to maximise the utility of the limited resources you set aside for that possibility.

Sugar (and simple carb) addiction is insidious, and when a person has lost most of the ability to convert other foods into the sugars the body really needs, he or she can quickly get into symptoms brought on by "low" glucose levels. This is not starvation, this is withdrawal, and simply feeding the addiction is not really an appropriate long-term solution.

Note that this person has also lost a lot of the ability to easily utilize their own body fat- same enzymes. Does that seem like a good thing to have lost for survival purposes?

If you allow your body to relearn how to maintain the needed enzymes to process "real" food, sugar withdrawal simply not a factor.

It's like attributing the symptoms of tobacco withdrawal to a healthy diet when a person quits smoking and starts eating healthy. The fact that the symptoms occur together does not establish cause-and-effect.

But, some people will never be convinced. Some will take sugar bars, magazines, decks of cards and a teddy bear. That's fine, it's your life, your kit, your decisions, do what you think best.

>>I perceive to some degree this is drifting from the original intent of the poster regarding the need/desire to learn to hunt. If so, I suggest we can start a new thread or with the permission of Christina and/or Chris/Doug we can continue our discourse on this thread.<<

I agree that this is thread drift, and, for the record, I have nothing against hunting, and think learning to hunt is a good idea (for those who are inclined in that direction) for several excellent reasons. That doesn't mean I think it's necessarily the first thing one should be thinking about in most survival situations, that's another question.

I'd just as soon let it drop. We covered all this before, ad nauseum, and lots of people expressed their opinions on it- most without much supporting evidence. Maybe someone can post a link to the old thread and save any of us having to go through all of it again.

It just seemed to me that the POV being expressed recently was getting very one-sided, espeicially when I read phrases like "I will always believe"... that's not open to discussion, that's faith.

I agree a warm fleece hat and other appropriate clothing can go a long way in preventing or delaying the onset of hypothermia. I would consider them an essential and primary line of defense.

Likewise, I consider having energy sources to increase my changes of survival an important basic. I was unable to copy the section of this chart I wanted to include to support my point of view, but if you go to this web site and look at the chart, you will see that in early stage hypothermia, warm sweet liquids and high-energy foods are suggested. Pete

http://www.hypothermia.org/fieldchart.htm

?I also PERSONALLY feel that food items in a survival kit *generally* take up room and weight better used for other things.?

A very well-reasoned objection. And I agree a hat is more valuable than power bars. But there?s no reason that you can?t have both if you want. It?s your kit after all. (A teddy bear though?)

I don?t know anything about sugar addiction. I rarely use the refined stuff myself. Now steaks and beer, on the other hand..... <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

While putting together my current wilderness kit I made sure that I had just enough room left over in it for 4 boullion cubes and 2 decaf coffee bags. Nutritional value= zero. The coffee might cheer me up and the boullion might make the squirrel more palatable. But the bottom line is, either one will be easier to consume than plain hot water?especially if I?m huddling under my space blanket, in a sleet storm, with a broken ankle.

Cheers, Vince

>>Nutritional value= zero. The coffee might cheer me up and the boullion might make the squirrel more palatable. But the bottom line is, either one will be easier to consume than plain hot water?especially if I?m huddling under my space blanket, in a sleet storm, with a broken ankle.<<

Er, no offense, but that would be the classic "comfort" argument. There were lots and lots of variations on that earlier, with lots of emphasis on just how IMPORTANT comfort could be, and in how many ways it was important, with scenarios, and anecdotes from real life, and attempts (seriously) to relate various levels of discomfort to various real dangers...

I'll try not to relate it to teddy bears... but if a teddy bear is what one needs to survive, then by all means.. I just don't happen to include either in my personal kit... <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Say what you want but I REFUSE to remove Mr Teddikins The Teddy Bear from my survival kit!!!!!!! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

No offense taken. I'm not talking comfort--I'm talking about getting a pint of hot liquid inside of me as fast as possible. From what I have been taught about hypothermia, when you start shivering uncontrollably then you have very little time left--especially if you are alone. Anything that will help bring up your core temperature, or keep it up, has got to give you some advantage.

Even though this thread has drifted a bit, it's still been a worthwhile discussion IMO

Regards, Vince

Ok. You can keep him. But remember, if things get too rough out there he might just turn on you. It's happened before.... <img src="/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" />

Vince