Cost of PSK

Questions:

1. What is the true cost of a cheap improperly equipped PSK? Please List!

2. What did you pay for your PSK?

3. Now, what did you pay for all your PSK's together?


Why would anyone spend only 10,12,15, or even $30 dollars on there PSK. Be honest here if your life depended on it, would you want the best or the cheapest equipment.

MCSE, I don't understand your question <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> You were last on @ May 2003 with similar posts. People obviously buy or assemble what is readily at hand or presented by commercial interests. Then people slowly learn what is worthwhile and if so inclined assemble a premium kit. People have survived throughout time with the most rudimentary and humble bits of gear. Conversely, entire expeditions have disappeared into history books dragging a ship's desk. My PSK probably represents $100 to replace item by item. With past mistakes it's actually close to double that. Somebody with half a brain could assemble a basic kit for lunch money. Niether one will do much more than satisfy online forum egos unless the users somehow cut the 550 para- umbilical cord of armchair survival and go get cold,wet,lost,scared and dirty at least once.

I buy some of my personal equipment on the slick so I think I can answear your question. Quite frankly, many of us simply do not have an extra $100-150 to spend on a knife and then again on a PSK. That alone is a powerful enough motive to buy cheaper gear, but you also have the idea of use. I am interested in personal survival because of the way I was raised and my personal predisposition to getting stuff done myself, however, I do live in an urban enviroment as opposed to being a small aircraft piolt or climber/hiker enthusiast. For me, my well stock bail out bag in the trunk, my multi-tool and my flash light see me through most problems. It is unlikey that I will be in a "serious" survival incident so I generally don't have to spend top dollar. For me, its more of an acedemic interest and hobby that has the dule benifet of being fun and also potentially life saving. I spend good money on it when I can, but Iam in university and only work part-time so it often gets slid to the back burner for things like, you know, food <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

My personal EDC kit is in the $100-140 range.

The difference between a $15 kit and a $100+ kit is:

The quality of items
The compactness of items allowing no brainer carry convenience.

A cheaper kit is much bulkier and not as effective potentially.

Its also about comfort level and what you are willing to live with. A bulky EDC is more likely to be left home as its not convenient to carry 365 days/yr. I believe a $100 can be afforded by all short of the most hard up people, just collect the items over time to minimize the wallets impact.

Flip

I think you're preaching to the choir. I think most people here have well stocked PSK’s and that doesn’t mean they spent $500 to do it either. Just because a kit cost less than $50 doesn’t mean it won’t work for you.

I think your question should be asked to the general public that goes out for a weekend hike and get's lost on the trail. Could it be possible that $27.50 survival kit would save their life? I would say yes.

>>1. What is the true cost of a cheap improperly equipped PSK? <<

An attempt at a trick question? I'm guessing that you're going for an answer with the word "death" in it... but I'm not much into rhetorical exercises.

There are expensive "improperly equipped" PSKs as well as "cheap" ones, and as many folks here know, a little personal attention can make up for a lot of money in creating a "properly equipped" PSK, and a little experience can be worth quite a bit of equipment.

I'm a "knife nut" myself, but I'd bet on a seasoned woods-rat with an Opinel over a newbie with a your choice of $300 survival knives any day.

1. I spent my first 20 years hunting deer, and later elk, with my survival kit consisting of a space blanket, a candle stub, some strike-anywhere matches in a waterproof metal case, a wire saw, and a bottle of Potable Aqua. Total cost: about $10.00. Was I improperly equipped? Probably. But I carried more dedicated survival gear than most of the guys I was hunting with.

2. Now I carry considerably more dedicated gear. All told, I'm probably into it about $65-$75. I don't include my knives in this total because I consider them more hunting than survival gear. The knives I carry are a 1970's era Old Timer Woodsman 5" fixed blade of 1095 carbon steel (available for about $35.00 on Ebay) and a brand new Buck Crosslock Alpha Hunter in S30V steel. ($89.00 at Cabelas.) Hardly what you would consider premium survival knives, and certaintly far less expensive than some of the custom jobs.

Would I stake my life on my cheap knives? Well, I guess I do just that every time I go up the mountain, and I've been doing that for 30 years. The fact is, I have confidence that my cheap Old Timer can do whatever job is at hand. If I didn't, I would carry something else. The same goes for the rest of my gear.


Regards, Vince

Hi Guys,

No, No I am not asking a trick question nor am I trying to be to critical.

Maybe I am preaching to the choir and that is a good thing. When I started many years ago I bought one kit and found out that it did not have enough stuff and then bought another and another, and yet another. I do not want to say how many kits I have how much I money I have spent.


Yes Chris I know you are well versed in survival and so am I and we could probably both survive in very hostel environments. That isn't a ego trip but just a statement on the education that this site provides for people. Congratulations!!

I am sorry, I am laughing, now you said "You were last on @ May 2003" but I have never left, I have been checking out this site the whole time. Chris are you scolding me for what I said on (May of 2003), or for not posting sooner.




Hi Presumed lost,

(long time) , you said this "but I'm not much into rhetorical exercises". I had no intension of saying this but I will now! Well I am not into games or rhetorical exercises, I will tell you a true story though. My buddies and I where hiking in the Olympic mountains in Washington many many years ago and there were two day hikers on the same route; a guy and a girl. To keep it short they hiked too far out to get back in time and it got dark, they had no equipment and no flashlight, but they tried to hike back anyway. The only problem was as you know that some of the trails lead right up to the edges of cliffs. He lead her right off the edge of a cliff, he died when he hit the bottom, she was gored by a branch on a ledge on the way down and hung there all night, and somewhere in the middle of the night she froze to death. That night it rained, snowed, cleared off and froze. I got out of my tent and looked around and it was so beautiful out, so cold, it was clear and peaceful, it was gorgeous. I never heard her scream, no even once.



Anyway about the cost of the kit, I

I do tons of lightweight backpacking and it always amazes me the amount of day hikers (and more recently mountain bikers too) I see with zero equipment. Some don't even carry water and where I live it is usually HOT. Often it is a young couple and sometimes even a family with small children. It bothers me to no end and especially when people travel unprepaired with their children. Maybe CPS should sit at the trailhead and arrest those fools. I imagine I am likely to have to use my knowledge and gear to help one these people [again] long before I will need it to help myself. That is if they are lucky enough to be within shouting distance of my camp or to cross me on the trail. </endRant>

Looking in my pockets and on my person right now while sitting at my desk at work I have about $222 worth of gear on me.

A huge portion of that is my Benchmade Mini RSK (about $125 w/ delivery) and my Timex Expedition watch/compass (about $65 if I remember correctly). In addition to that I am also carrying a small ferrocerium rod plucked from a cheap magnesium starter ($6) wrapped in shrink tubing ($1) as well as a small spy capsule ($5) with 2 days worth of prescription meds and some cotton ($5) and a Photon II white LED light ($15).

I also have a small PSK for hiking:

3 Condoms ($5)
6 MP1 Tabs ($8)
Scalpel Blade ($1)
Gerber 2" Locking Folder ($25)
50' of 100# Fireline ($2)
Mini Bic Lighter ($2)
Larger Ferrocerium Rod ($6)
3 Alcohol Swabs ($1)
Benchmade DPT Rant ($50 w/ shipping)
Timex Helix Watch/Compass/Altimeter/Barometer/Thermometer/etc.. ($100)

Total Cost $200

I live in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and with the areas I travel in, the Eskimo saying of "A knife is life" fits the bill nicely. I would add only firestarting equipment as truly needy for me. I have more than that and my only requirement is that the item for the purpose intended function. An empty soup can for cooking is just as good as a titanium pan.

Of course, I am 58 years old and I know I am great so I don't need to have designer anything to feel content. I hold to the belief that any problems coming my way will be relatively brief in nature and duration.

But then, to each their own.

Bountyhunter

Where are you finding these soup cans? The ones I see these days all have petroleum chemical-based liners and seem sealers that would likely become toxic when placed over the camp fire. I actually keep a soup can in each of my larger kits simply because I figure that if I really need it then I'll take my chances with the toxins but I would certainly rather not have to risk it if I don't need to and I never use them voluntarily when camping for that exact reason. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Brian:

All right, bad choice for an example. What I have now is 3 very cheap stainless steel pans nested into each other, and 2 sierra stainless steel cups with wire handles nested in each other. The 3 pans had handles on them which I sheared off and I have one of those steel pan grippers to pick them up with. By the way the steel (I don't know about the aluminum ones.) pan gripper is so strong in its grip that you could use it for pulling on the skin of large animals you may be skinning or for holding onto a fish while descaling it.

Instead of paying $16.00 to $21.00 for a name brand stainless nested mess kit, I paid $0.49 for each of the pans and each of the cups, and paid $0.25 for the steel pan gripper at Goodwill for a total outlay of $2.70.

Why 3 pans and 2 cups? If I get lost, I plan on having company as I don't want to be miserable by myself. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Bountyhunter <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Hi Brain,

I hear ya, I don't understand Day hikers myself and why they don't equip themselves properly, I think they are in engulfed in the beauty of the area and don't feel they need to prepare. In there mind they believe they are going to only be on the trail for a short time so there is no need equip themselves. Big mistake!! They do not fully appreciate the area they are in and the threats that face them.

They hike around and don't watch the time and they get to far out and it gets to dark and when it gets dark in the mountains it gets cold fast. When it gets dark and cold they get scarred and then they wander around and as you know it is easy to get lost because so many trails intersect with each other.

Then they want a tent but don't have one and do not know how to build a shelter.
They want a fire but do not have the equipment, even if they did there afraid of getting a fine for destroying park property.
Then it continues on from there and snow balls down hill.



Bye the way those soup cans with petroleum chemical-based liners and seem sealers will burn off and you are in a open area anyway, so there is no need to worry about it there has been lots of people who have used them in the past and are fine. However why not use a aluminum or steel pot instead that way you can reuse them and will last for years.

Hi Nic,

You are right there other priorities in life, and you can get buy with less.

I guess what I was pointing out was that I have spent allot of money over the years on the cheap stuff and it was useable, but I was not satisfied. So I kept spending and spending, trying to get the best and have spent a ton on the cheap stuff. I could of saved all that money if I would have bought the good stuff first, that's all.

No, No Norad45,

I am not talking about carrying $400 custom knives.

That is good stuff you are carrying, I was talking about cheap commercial kits.

example:
In the Coghlan's kit would you depend your life on that (come on tell the truth).

whistle
button compass that will get a air bubble quick.
using foil as a signal mirror
there fire cubes


That's the type of marginal stuff that I was talking about.

I spent a long term researching PSK's and EDC and such. I see a lot of people that will buy cheap stuff from walmart, oddlots, etc with the thought that something is better than nothing and I see people with $500 knives and $300 flashlights and such. I realize that not everyone can afford top of the line gear but also I've learned that is is better to have one or two decent quality items than having to dig through the box of 10 $.99 each items to find the one that still works. I choose somewhere in the middle and buy one item at a time so my EDC/PSK gear list always changes and gets better but it doesn't hurt my budget because I haven't had to lay out a lot of $ at one time but spread out over a long period of time its added up to a decent amount. By buying one item at a time I also get time to become familiar with each addition rather than just reading a list of what someone else put in a psk.

When I am out camping, not going especially primitive or anything but just the normal lightweight backpacking that I do on most weekends, I think my number one piece equippment is my little aluminum camp cup that I bought at Walmart for $5. I suppose I could replace the soup can in one of my kits (the large backpack kit in my truck) with one of these but in the other kit, my medium kit (in a Maxpedition M2 waistpack) the soup can fits perfectly and I would hate to have to substitute it. I stuff all my gear in to the can then stick the can in the M2. It's amazing what I have been able to cram in there. Check out this pic...

The Storm Shelter Instant Pcoket Tent goes in the outside pocket on the M2, the paracord goes in the M2 under the can and believe it or not the rest of that is all packed very snuggly inside the soup can! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Yup, you pretty much got what I was saying. I would love to have a top dollar really reliable kit, but I have to work in the confines of reality. I do believe that something is better than nothing and try to buy a little bit more quality than bottom rung. What I do plan to spend beaucoup bucks on though is upgrading my multi-tool. I get a tonne of work done with it but its getting old and worn, and if I have to replace it, i'll replace it with something nice. Maybe a leatherman. Wall-Mart actaully had a good price on the multi-lock lately but the wide pilers kept me from buying, I think I can do better you know?

Personally, I'd rather have a 99 cent baby Bic lighter than Doug's PSP, under the following conditions: The Bic lighter is in my pocket, and the PSP is in the glove compartment of my car back in the airport parking lot. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You say that you've bought a lot of junk and found that, in the long term, it cost you more money than if you'd bought quality stuff in the first place. Otoh, I once did manage to baton several pieces of kindling off a log using a cheap "lockback" knife that I picked up in a Dollar store, and started a fire with that 99 cent baby Bic; if I knew then what I know now, I'm sure I would have gotten a good campfire going. So I'm a big believer that it's not the tools, it's the carpenter that matters. I would suggest that more lives have been saved by the Bic disposable than by all the Blastmatches, Swedish firesteels and Sparklites ever sold.

Just out of curiosity, what are some examples of "cheap" stuff you've bought, and in what way did it let you down?

Hi there aardwolfe,

Yes you are right the Bic Lighter is one of the best and has not earned its rightful place in the survival hall of fame.
However Blastmatches, Swedish firesteels and Sparklites are excellent choices under certain conditions and nothing is perfect.

Your cheap "lockback" knife is something that will where out fast under hard use and will half to be replaced soon. And may fail you when you need it most.
It is better than nothing but again you can do better.

Look at what I said to Norad45, that is the type of stuff and a lot of other guys have done the same.

mcse:

I know you mean well, but I think that what you think I said is not what I think I said. At least, I think that's what I mean. <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I would never recommend relying on flimsy equipment to save money. That being said, I don't give a damn if my survival equipment is going to wear out after long, hard use - if I can use it to get a fire going, I'm going to keep that fire going come hell or high water until I'm rescued.

I have a number of fire-starting implements - I own a Blastmatch, a couple of Sparklites, several varieties of Mag-flint, a bunch of Bic lighters, a mini-torch that uses a disposable lighter as a fuel cell, a couple of boxes of strike-anywhere matches, an International orange match-safe, 5 Ronson lighter flints Krazy-glued to a key on my keychain and held in place with clear shrink tubing... About the only one I don't have is a Swedish firesteel, and that's because I've used one and wasn't impressed.

But I still stand by what I said - the quality of the tools is secondary to the skill of the carpenter.

That's funny,


Okay I yield to the man with:

"I have a number of fire-starting implements - I own a Blastmatch, a couple of Sparklites, several varieties of Mag-flint, a bunch of Bic lighters, a mini-torch that uses a disposable lighter as a fuel cell, a couple of boxes of strike-anywhere matches, an International orange match-safe, 5 Ronson lighter flints Krazy-glued to a key on my keychain and held in place with clear shrink tubing... About the only one I don't have is a Swedish firesteel, and that's because I've used one and wasn't impressed. "

I think that wood is going to be burning like hell in no time!!
I like your last two thoughts of wisdom both are good!!

What was it about the Swedish firesteel that you didn't like? I have been thinking of buying one (or the BSA, Kersaw, or Gerber equivelants) and I wouldn't mind hearing details.

BTW: I hope you dont carry all that at once. You get near a spark and you may like up a 5 mile radius. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> J/K