Thanx for your vote of confidence - I am not a troll, but I do have cynical tendencies. I certainly agree with your moral and practical assessment of hoarding, but still have some questions about legality. I only posted a short reply to this thread the first time because I didn't have time to dig up a reference where I heard about this (errr... I still haven't made the time...). But I do see that some of the other posters here have begun to look into it. As an outside observer, I am constantly surprised at the incredible (and increasing) restrictions that citizens of the "land of the free" will put up with (oops... I hope that's not trolling...).

<img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Okay ... whats a "troll" and/or "trolling"? I'm assuming we aren't talking about the ugly little guys living under the bridges. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

A forum "troll" is someone who is tossing out an outrageous opinion with the hope of igniting a controvertial or heated discussion. Sort of like "trolling" bait behind a boat in hopes of catching a fish. Quite often a troll doesn't even believe what they are stating, just enjoys the flame war that follows. The best way to respond is to not respond- "do not feed the trolls".

"Nuke the unborn gay whales for jesus"- now that's a troll.

oops, thanks. Good catch.

When I first read your post I assumed that you were referring to profiteering or price gouging. Hoarding food or fuel for your own use has never been illegal as far as I know. But if I try to sell my stash of gas at $10.00 per gallon after a hurricane I may well indeed land in jail, and deservedly so.

Regards, Vince

>> I am not a troll, but I do have cynical tendencies. <<

You and me both, friend.

>>As an outside observer, I am constantly surprised at the incredible (and increasing) restrictions that citizens of the "land of the free" will put up with <<

As an inside observer, I share your surprise. Repeatedly. Often. Continuously. It's very hard to believe that the same people who fought two world wars in the name of "freedom" are now pepared to surrender it, as a culture, to suppress some fanatics with box cutters.

As was pointed out, FEMA (and probably some other agencies) have pretty much carte blanche to suspend the constitution for the duration of whatever is officially deemed an emergency. How likely that is to happen, or to be abused, or what capabilities might be in place to enforce such, I'm not in a position to judge.

However, since my family was one of the victims of Andrew Jackson's famous regard for the constitution:

"(Chief Justice of the Supreme Court) John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it."

I do tend to be ever so slighltly cynical about the motivations of such moves. More generally, I suspect that the study of history makes one cynical. Perhaps that's why it's apparently no longer encouraged.

However, trying to discuss what might be "legal" after a power grab of that magnitude (theoretical or historical) is probably moot... what's legal will be whatever the people with the most guns say is legal.

Now, if we try to define that as TEOTWAWKI, then we also have to define exactly how that's different from now... <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I enjoy the conversation, but I suspect we're nearing the edge of what's considered acceptable for this forum, and I have no desire to add to the moderator's heartburn... I suggest we let it fade away quietly.

I have always thought of hoarding as something that is done when there is a definite emergency going on and rationing for equal distribution to all was threatened.

If I am stocking up now when there is no emergency or rationing of the items I am stocking up on, I am not hoarding.

In an emergency situation, governmental agencies can under laws already in place seize your stash for redistribution, but that does not imply you acted illeagally.

If you go to a central emergency shelter, items can be taken from you to seve the more needy. An example would be you bringing a cot and having it seized for use as a stretcher or operating table which is more important than having you sleeping on it. Likewise if you bring a cooler or any container with food or water to the shelter, they can redistribute it if they fear a shortage of what they already have will occur.

Best way seems to be, hole up with what you have somewhere that only you can access until your supplies deplete to the point where you need help. That way you aren't using the common assets of the shelter, and you aren't hiding your stuff to use later after taking advantage of the shelters offerings.

I know they do not allow pets in long term shelters, but I have been wondering about people who have gastric bypass surgery. Those people need more calories because they have removed food processing intestines and will use up more of a shelters resources. Personally, I am all for maintaining equal portion and calorie control for all in the shelter, and if the gastric bypass surgery people perish because of their operations ---------- sorry.

Bountyhunter

That is why it is best to keep a low profile and not advertise your frugal activities, not even to relatives or friends that do not live with you. You can always bring who you want under your wing when they need help, but do not let the world know.

Bountyhunter

Norad45:

I think it is if you offer gas for $10.00 a gallon, you are profiteering, but if you only have 2 gallons and someone offers you $10.00 for 1 gallon of gas without you asking or hinting about it, and you have 1 gallon left, I do not believe that would be profiteering.

Now, if you had a 100 gallons of gas-------------------------------!

Bountyhunter

(P.S. I can not "IRREFUTABLY" prove that, but it seems sensible.)

I agree. I doubt that even the most ardent jackboot wearin', Black helicopter flyin', civil rights grabbin', Patriot act enforcin' "GOVERNMENT SPINMEISTER" would be interested in a 2 gallon hoard. I was thinking more along the lines of the guy who has a 1000 gallon tank on his farm. I think that he would be prohibited from profiteering just as much as the owner of the local Kwiki-Mart.


Regards, Vince