#32205 - 09/27/04 12:05 PM
Re: Long term survival (6 mo. - 1 yr) food & wate
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Member
Registered: 09/29/02
Posts: 124
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Originally posted by Presumed_Lost Good grief, whatever gave you that idea? I was so surprised at this question that I actually suspected you might be a troll, but I checked your past messages, and they seem thoughtful enough, so I have to assume you're sincere... Thanx for your vote of confidence - I am not a troll, but I do have cynical tendencies. I certainly agree with your moral and practical assessment of hoarding, but still have some questions about legality. I only posted a short reply to this thread the first time because I didn't have time to dig up a reference where I heard about this (errr... I still haven't made the time...). But I do see that some of the other posters here have begun to look into it. As an outside observer, I am constantly surprised at the incredible (and increasing) restrictions that citizens of the "land of the free" will put up with (oops... I hope that's not trolling...). <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
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#32206 - 09/27/04 01:15 PM
Re: Long term survival (6 mo. - 1 yr) food & wate
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Veteran
Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 1468
Loc: Texas
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Okay ... whats a "troll" and/or "trolling"? I'm assuming we aren't talking about the ugly little guys living under the bridges. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
Learn to improvise everything.
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#32207 - 09/27/04 01:28 PM
Re: Long term survival (6 mo. - 1 yr) food & wate
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Old Hand
Registered: 08/28/04
Posts: 835
Loc: Maple Grove, MN
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A forum "troll" is someone who is tossing out an outrageous opinion with the hope of igniting a controvertial or heated discussion. Sort of like "trolling" bait behind a boat in hopes of catching a fish. Quite often a troll doesn't even believe what they are stating, just enjoys the flame war that follows. The best way to respond is to not respond- "do not feed the trolls".
"Nuke the unborn gay whales for jesus"- now that's a troll.
_________________________
- Benton
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#32208 - 09/27/04 01:35 PM
Re: Long term survival (6 mo. - 1 yr) food & wate
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journeyman
Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 54
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oops, thanks. Good catch.
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#32210 - 09/27/04 03:41 PM
Re: Long term survival (6 mo. - 1 yr) food & wate
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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>> I am not a troll, but I do have cynical tendencies. <<
You and me both, friend.
>>As an outside observer, I am constantly surprised at the incredible (and increasing) restrictions that citizens of the "land of the free" will put up with <<
As an inside observer, I share your surprise. Repeatedly. Often. Continuously. It's very hard to believe that the same people who fought two world wars in the name of "freedom" are now pepared to surrender it, as a culture, to suppress some fanatics with box cutters.
As was pointed out, FEMA (and probably some other agencies) have pretty much carte blanche to suspend the constitution for the duration of whatever is officially deemed an emergency. How likely that is to happen, or to be abused, or what capabilities might be in place to enforce such, I'm not in a position to judge.
However, since my family was one of the victims of Andrew Jackson's famous regard for the constitution:
"(Chief Justice of the Supreme Court) John Marshall has made his decision, now let him enforce it."
I do tend to be ever so slighltly cynical about the motivations of such moves. More generally, I suspect that the study of history makes one cynical. Perhaps that's why it's apparently no longer encouraged.
However, trying to discuss what might be "legal" after a power grab of that magnitude (theoretical or historical) is probably moot... what's legal will be whatever the people with the most guns say is legal.
Now, if we try to define that as TEOTWAWKI, then we also have to define exactly how that's different from now... <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I enjoy the conversation, but I suspect we're nearing the edge of what's considered acceptable for this forum, and I have no desire to add to the moderator's heartburn... I suggest we let it fade away quietly.
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#32211 - 09/28/04 12:37 AM
Re: Long term survival (6 mo. - 1 yr) food & wate
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Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 1224
Loc: Milwaukee, WI USA
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I have always thought of hoarding as something that is done when there is a definite emergency going on and rationing for equal distribution to all was threatened.
If I am stocking up now when there is no emergency or rationing of the items I am stocking up on, I am not hoarding.
In an emergency situation, governmental agencies can under laws already in place seize your stash for redistribution, but that does not imply you acted illeagally.
If you go to a central emergency shelter, items can be taken from you to seve the more needy. An example would be you bringing a cot and having it seized for use as a stretcher or operating table which is more important than having you sleeping on it. Likewise if you bring a cooler or any container with food or water to the shelter, they can redistribute it if they fear a shortage of what they already have will occur.
Best way seems to be, hole up with what you have somewhere that only you can access until your supplies deplete to the point where you need help. That way you aren't using the common assets of the shelter, and you aren't hiding your stuff to use later after taking advantage of the shelters offerings.
I know they do not allow pets in long term shelters, but I have been wondering about people who have gastric bypass surgery. Those people need more calories because they have removed food processing intestines and will use up more of a shelters resources. Personally, I am all for maintaining equal portion and calorie control for all in the shelter, and if the gastric bypass surgery people perish because of their operations ---------- sorry.
Bountyhunter
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#32212 - 09/28/04 12:42 AM
Re: Long term survival (6 mo. - 1 yr) food & wate
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Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 1224
Loc: Milwaukee, WI USA
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That is why it is best to keep a low profile and not advertise your frugal activities, not even to relatives or friends that do not live with you. You can always bring who you want under your wing when they need help, but do not let the world know.
Bountyhunter
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#32213 - 09/28/04 12:48 AM
Re: Long term survival (6 mo. - 1 yr) food & wate
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Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 1224
Loc: Milwaukee, WI USA
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Norad45:
I think it is if you offer gas for $10.00 a gallon, you are profiteering, but if you only have 2 gallons and someone offers you $10.00 for 1 gallon of gas without you asking or hinting about it, and you have 1 gallon left, I do not believe that would be profiteering.
Now, if you had a 100 gallons of gas-------------------------------!
Bountyhunter (P.S. I can not "IRREFUTABLY" prove that, but it seems sensible.)
Edited by bountyhunter (09/28/04 12:49 AM)
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