I am kind of new at this whole survival minded thinking. Other than playing with fire when I was a kid and hunting all my life, I am pretty much starting from scratch.
Two ways I have found to be great are either using a match or the striker on a magnesium firestarter to light a greased cottonball. That is what I prefer, since it has proven to be almost foolproof, even in rain.
The other is old fashioned flint and steel with a peice of charcloth. This one is harder to master, but it is more reliable for me than just using matches.
What do you guys use? Are there any commercial products that are worth looking at? What about the Sparklite? (I have been looking into them.)
Thanks.

I would suggest running a search (set for all posts), as there have been numerous threads on fire making and fire making equipment. A lot of good and useful information is available both on the forum and in a number of Doug’s articles and reviews. Pete

Yes there is a lot of great information in old posts but times change, equipment changes, peoples experience and opinions change and the board membership changes and I, like many others like to see people's current ideas on certain subjects.

I think I use them [fire starting methods] all at one time or another minus the expensive refillable lighters which I never use. These are the methods I use on any kind of a regular basis.

Lifeboat matches
W/W Matches
Mini Bic Lighters
Ferrocerium rods with Magnesium Tinder
Ferrocerium rods with wax impregnated cotton
Ferrocerium rods with dry cotton
Ferrocerium rods with natural tinder
Bow Drill with pocket lint
Bow Drill with natural tinder (usually pithy from dead plant stalks)
Permanent Match.

Oddly enough although I am consistently good with a bow drill I am a lot less desirable with a hand drill so that is what I have been practicing a lot with lately. IMHO skill with a hand drill is extremely valuable. If you master that then you can make fire with no man made tools at all. All you need is two good arms, a couple pieces of wood and a couple rocks (for smoothing the drill and nothing the hearth). The same goes for the bow drill although improvising a cord and hand block is more difficult in many environments. The hand drill is a lot harder than the bow though (for me anyway) so I suggest you start with the bow. Another thing I am toying with is the fire piston. I think I am not exactly the norm around here on ETS though. I tend to value primitive skills more than many others do. Oh, I almost forgot, I also own a couple sparklites but I don't use them regularly. Love the tinder though and use it a lot. Sparklites are great because they can be used one-handed, however, a Bic lighter with no fuel will also shoot plenty of spark for lighting the same type tinder, so if you carry a lighter then IMO also carrying a sparklite is a bit over the top. Okay so that?s what I use.

Now for what I actually carry and use a lot. #1 is the hand drill which but this is strictly because I think its a very important skill and I currently stink with it and am trying to practice to get better with it (lots of blisters) <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> . For EDC I always have a small ferrocerium rod on me as well as a knife to strike it with. I often also EDC a small dry piece of cotton ball which is great tinder and doesn?t get all gooey in your pocket. I recently put together a small kit, bigger than the average ETS member's PSK but much smaller than the average BOB. In this kit is a smaller PSK-size kit. In the smallest Kit I have the following fire making materials: a ferrocerium rod with magnesium tinder, 6 sparklite tinders, two alcohol swabs, a mini Bic lighter, w/w matches with striker and a another separate small piece of ferrocerium. I also carry a metal knife, saw and file which are excellent for striking natural flint and ferrocerium rods as well as useful for constructing primitive fire making tools.

What about the surplus WWII flamethrower?

Two words - Coleman fuel.

I would guess that Coleman fuels is pretty darn explosive - nearly as much as gasoline. It seems kerosine or charcoal lighter filuid would be much safer and still provide a very impressive first light.

Regarding the use of vasoline-covered cotton balls, I read somewhere - maybe one of the threads here - the recommendation of doping only every other cotton ball and then stuffing them into the container alternating with dry cottom balls. This makes lots of sense. It almost ensures that you'll have some dry cotton that will catch a spark well. I'll have to try that.

I don't use vaseline on mine, mostly because I didn't have it when I started making them. I use Crisco shortening because it comes in a huge can. Seems more cost effective to me.
Anyhow, I have tested the ones I make by saturating them with Crisco, then submerging them in a glass of water for twenty minutes. I pulled them out, wrung the water out, and lit them with matches. I couldn't get a ferrochromium rod to catch on them (big suprise, huh?). I found that if I fluffed them out into a teepee sort of shape, then lit the bottom, the flame would dry out the upper part as it burned. Even thoroughly soaked, they are better than alot of the stuff you could find on your own in the woods. That is about as good as I can expect.
BTW - Even the saturated greased cotton balls catch a spark very well when dry. A whole cotton ball will burn for about 5 or so minutes with a flame about six inches high. It works for me.

Of course it's explosive! That's the whole point. You want a roaring inferno in 5 seconds flat or some wee little flame that couldn't even scorch a fly???

Send me one and I give it a try. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I bet it won't produce blisters like these #$%^ hand drills I've been making lately. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Read this and several related site forums over a period of time and trends ( dare I say fads) become obvious. Currently it's a Nessmuck or Bushcraft blade with a metal match snug in a papoose sheath. My first arctic instructor used state of the art Ontario/Camillus USAF survival knives and wooden matches. Somewhere in between I figured out every system has it's merits and drawbacks. Rather than pose your question "What do you guys use to start a fire?" Lets ask "Why do you start a fire?" DUH!!!!! Chris, because we are cold and it's dark and scary and we need these 3 signal fires for the black helicopters to see. O.K. did you just emerge from a freezing lake and shivering so badly the entire box of 250 strike anywheres flew into the snow( Metal match gets the nod)? Is one arm shattered by Bart the Bear before fleeing under the retaliatory blows of your Swiss Army knife? ( Sparklite) Your at the New Mexico hot air balloon festival and the ETS promo balloon suffers a blowout ( those guys seriously denude quickie marts of disposable lighters and carry several.) No one situation can possibly be handled 100% effectively 100% of the time by one method alone. Bowdrills just don't cut it in a descending hot air balloon. Skills aren't something done by consensus or whats popular. Learn each and every method, regardless of your personal opinion ( I hate magnesium bars) and pack at least 3 systems with different advantages. The first guy with a fire going and fixings for smoors wins <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Sounds like good advice. Since getting started with this stuff, I have found that I am basically a pyromaniac. I really do love fire. It just fascinates me. I started playing with a bow and drill last night. Haven't gotten fire yet, but I did get enough smoke to know that I can. I figure that eventhough I would want something quicker and more foolproof in a life or death situation, primitive skills like that may allow me to stretch my resources out to last me longer. Well, at least provided that I can still use both hands.

Here's part of my left pocket EDC items. Doesn't include a Bic lighter.



But I really wanted to show how I carry vaseline-soaked cotton balls. At the 4 o'clock position is a 3 inch piece of tubing stuffed with my vaseline impregnated cotton. It's small, flexible and you can squeeze out whatever you need like a toothpaste tube.

Plus I'm too cheap to buy a spy capule just for this purpose. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Also have about 2 feet of duct tape around the striker. One to keep everything from rattling when I walk, and two because it's duct tape.

--Chris

I know I've said this before, so I apologize for the repetition, but...

An army P38 can opener makes an excellent striker for these ferrocerium-rod firestarters. It's really not noticably larger or heavier than the steel strikers that come with these things- smaller and lighter than some.

Plus, it opens cans. Easily. That's a pretty big plus when you need it.

I'm pretty much never without a BSA Hotspark when out of the house, but I wouldn't consider carrying a single-purpose striker with it.

The P38 in my keycase has even made it through the airport screening a couple of times. I have a whole box full, so I don't care much if they confiscate one or two.

Avoid the imported imitations, though.

How do you tell if it's an imported imitation p-38?

Getting smoke is good. Getting a coal is better. You're certainly on the right track and I bet now you probably already see that it isn't as difficult as many might lead you to believe. Just keep in mind that primitive skills are not the end-all be-all (like everything else) but are an excellent "tool" to add to your arsenal. For EDC I often carry a small ferrocerium rod only but any time I go backpacking (except when I'm out specifically to force myself practice my primtive stills or test the effectiveness of my EDC) I try to carry 3 different means of fire on my person. Lighter, matches and a ferocerium rod for example. I won't even get in to how many fire making options are in the backpack kept in my truck. Pretty much everything cept the flame thrower although I plan to add that once Goatrider sends it to me. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

You can compare the size, many of the cheapo imported ones just aren't the same size. The imported ones also seem un sturdy and "wiggle" a lot. New USGI come in a small brown paper wrapping that has instructions, if I remember correctly. New USGI P-38's are a little hard to open and will snap into the cutting position. The Brits. have a larger can opener that has a thumb rest and can slo be used as a spoon.

hey x-ray dave : its the aussie issue tin opener that has the spoon end and bottle opener...the brit issue tin opener is just a larger p-38 type opener and only a hole for a dummy cord....just wanted to clear that up... <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />...vince g. 11b infantry...

I've been thinking about adding one of those aluminum fuel bottles that they use for camp stoves to my truck. If I need to get a fire, 22 oz of kerosene would most likely be a big help. I haven't gotten into backpacking yet but I am going to. Working on getting in better shape (doing alot of hiking), and learning all I can first.
Have to say that this site is proving to be an incredible resource. Thanks for all the help.

IMHO, de-odorized mineral spirits are even cheaper than diesel fuel and far easier to ignite than kero or diesel. Think charcoal starter - that's about how it ignites and burns. Not a big explosion hazard like gasoline or lighter fluid but far easier to ignite than diesel.

It has another use in your vehicle - that is the solvent of choice for parts washers in much of the country (prol not in So Cal). Wet a rag/paper towel with it, wipe off hands, oil caps, etc. Takes the fat out of your skin, but not as aggressively as gasoline - a little hand lotion afterwards works great.

Kero sneaks past seals over time and spills STINK for about half of eternity. If you spill mineral spirits, they evaporate fairly soon (minutes to hours, depending on conditions), leaving no odor. I speak from experience in vehicles on both counts...

Tom

Thanks for the correction, I've got some of both, I like the P-38 because of it's size. My USGI P-38 is marked U.S. and MALLIN SHELBY O on the side away from the cutter.

Thanks, guys, for chiming in. Yo've pretty well covered it, I think.. although I have bought good P38s loose in a box. You just sort of learn to recognize the real thing. I ususally look in surplus stores or on eBay, not in camping stores.

Above all, don't buy anything in a bubble pack. Study the ones that come in bubble packs to see what the fakes look like. And, of course, never buy anything in a bubble pack backed in green cardboard with a red stripe in the corner. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

My favorite ones are stamped SPEAKER (some that I've had for decades are black from oxidation- still work fine), but there were a lot of contractors. There have been previous threads on these things.

Mostly, they're so tiny, lightweight and cheap that it's just silly not to have one on your person or in a kit, and in that respect they're a great companion for the (also amazingly small and inexpensive, but effective) BSA Hotspark. I only wish more pieces of equipment had those qualities.

I don't use liquid fuels (cept in my backyard bar-b-q <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) so I can't comment there. However when it comes to backpacking I have a few opinions <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> and it sounds to me like you're going about it the right way. Start with day hikes, then when youre comfortable there, then move on to overnight (one night trips) in a place with cell coverage (and take a cell phone with fully charged batteries) and a campsite that isn't too far from the trailhead. Schedule your overnight trips when the forecast shows good weather conditions (but of course be prepared for bad conditions anyway) until you're confortable overnighting. Then (and some people may call me crazy for this one) schedule an overnight trip at that same campsite near the trailhead for a night when you know the weather will be bad. Now don't be silly and go out during a hurricane or flash flooding, but go when light to moderate rain is expected. The idea here is that youre prepareing in a relatively safe environment for thouse 4+ day trips out in to the boonies where the weather gets bad while youre too far out to hike back to civilization. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Other than that I'd say just stay on the trails and take good care of your trail map. First time I went to Dinosaur Valley State Park here in Texas it was hot and I was pouring with sweat and had already crossed a river and a couple creeks and just about the time I got about as far as one could possibly get from the trailhead my map finally disintegrated from prolonged exposure to moisture, mostly from sweat. I managed to fumble my way back to the trailhead with a little help from my faithful companion (7 year old laborador retriever) but it took a long time and we were real close to having to spend the night on the trail.

Sorry I tend to get long-winded with my posts... I just rreally enjoy discussing this stuff with people who share similar interests.

Oh ya one more thing... if youre concerned that a map and compass aren't enough to keep you from getting lost right now while youre still learning, then I strongly recommend a GPS with the tracking option (almost all GPS's have that option) and plenty of fresh batteries. I'm no orienteering expert when comes to map and compass (though I keep practicing) and when I go off-trail (or even sometimes on-trail at new location) I take a GPS and I have used it more than once to retrace my steps. Be aware however that if the weather gets bad or you have a thick canopy of trees then the GPS temporarily turns into not much more than an expensive paperweight. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I am pretty familiar with a map and compass. I'm not an expert either, but I learned how to use them pretty well when I was in the Army. I am rusty at using them now though, but reacquainting myself with them is high on my list. I am thinking that it will actually be the next thing I start on, after mastering fire. Thanks for the help guys.

Goon:

I love backpacking and want to make sure you've discovered lightweight backpacking and hammocks and tarps. Things everyone should try, in my opinion.

And to keep on topic, I use an alcohol stove for bakcpacking (mostly Trangia, but lots of home made stoves, too) and I like to light those by throwing a spark from my BSA Hot Spark into the alcohol. Lots easier than using a lighter upside-down.

Bear

Amen to the lightweight backpacking. I keep my pack under 10# most of the time (including dog food) and have pitched tarps and made ground covers with everything from heavy duty actual tarp material (the thick cheap stuff) to mylar blankets (the thin cheap stuff <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />). I could go on but then I would be hijacking the thread worse than I already have. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I will say however, that IMHO for someone new to backpacking a small lightweight tent is probably a better place to start than tarp pitching. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />