#3192 - 12/22/01 03:46 PM
Blade holder in PSK
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Veteran
Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 1272
Loc: Upper Mississippi River Valley...
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Interesting discussion recently about blades vs razor vs whatever in PSK. Last evening, in a collision of my too-many hobbies, I picked up a clone #2 X-acto knife for under $2 and made some modifications to it in about 15 minutes.<br><br>Chucked it in the lathe and cut it down to fit in an Altoids tin with the blade removed. It's still long enough to manage a secure grip in hard or delicate grip configs. I could easily make it shorter - for example, it would still be fairly useable at a length suitable for stowing cross-wise in the PSK BUT... read on...<br><br>I then bored out the butt end 21/64", leaving about a 0.010" bulkhead between the threaded bore in the head and the new recess. Then I threaded the new (butt end) recess 3/8- 24 NF for about 1/2" (that would be similar to 9mm x 1.0mm for a depth of 12mm for our metric friends). I can turn and thread the cut-off portion, but instead I'm going to pick up a suitable nylon bolt and o-ring at the hardware store today (actually, I may have them in one of my salvage bins).<br><br>This weekend I'll make an adapter for an Ez Awl needle, modify a hacksaw blade stub to fit (plus put an edge on the back of the hacksaw blade), cross-drill the bolt head for a small lanyard, and knurl a few places on the handle. Afterwards, I'll hit the whole thing with a coat of orange spray paint. I've been meaning to setup for anodizing, and if I make any more I'll anodize and dye them instead.<br><br>The handle will store sewing needles and an Ez Awl needle with room to spare - I may wrap several yards of thread around the needles. I could do a few additional mods to make it into a miniature Ez Awl, but am not interested - it will work fine the way I'm building it. I expect I'll have at most an hour's work total in it by the time I finish (which makes it expensive, I suppose).<br><br>It's pretty light-weight - the knurled steel sleeve at the nose is almost as heavy as the entire handle and collet. The cylindrical form factor is so-so but probably the best compromise in terms of bulk, stiffness, and useful interior volume. A #1 handle could be used instead (smaller blades and very little interior volume after boring out) and in fact I picked up one to modify in a similar fashion.<br><br>I'll post some specs and a few pics if anyone is interested.<br><br>There are a lot of additional uses this could be put to. For example, I can adapt a small diamond coated rod to fit. Any other ideas? I'm not sure this will earn a place in my PSK but it almost certainly is going into my regular repair kit - it will certainly displace my Ez awl, for one thing.<br><br>As I also have a mill and plenty of tooling for it, I am getting strange ideas running thru my mind when I gaze at all the lovely 7075-T9 and 6061-T6 scraps I keep "in stock"... but that's a heck of a lot more work (read: time). The "X-acto" knife handle conversion is so simple, I could teach a chimp how to do it in a few minutes. I am not a machinist and what little I know is self-taught with the help of the folks on another list, but this is simple. A lathe would not be needed to replicate this; I can describe how to do this accurately with a small drill press (and one COULD do it with a hand-held drill IF one was very, very skilled). Threading can be omitted; a plug can be made on the drill press or bought ready-made or whittled (not great for a lanyard, but there are other lanyard options). Knurling can be functionally replicated (if not pretty) by rolling on a board with heavy hand-pressure on a file or wood rasp.<br><br>Or one could skip the hollow handle. Cut-off the handle to desired length and most of the remaining handle can be slimmed down to a slab type cross section with a rasp or file. tape needles to handle and wrap with cord or thread - there are many alternatives.<br><br>Questions, commets, more ideas?<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Scouter Tom
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#3193 - 12/22/01 04:04 PM
Re: Blade holder in PSK
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Enthusiast
Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 280
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Tom,<br><br>Post pictures!!! Please. Very interested.<br><br>Andy
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#3194 - 12/22/01 05:01 PM
Re: Blade holder in PSK
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journeyman
Registered: 11/30/01
Posts: 62
Loc: The Netherlands (Europe)
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Tom, <br><br>Interested.....? I'll send you my address, how about some overseas testing of your handiwork <br><br>If I just hear , I put it in the lathe.... I start drooling, I just wish I had a lathe as I did some work on it almost a decade ago making new firing pins for an obsolete pistol and turning some parts for an old Webly Airpistol.<br><br>Best Scouting wishes from Holland,<br><br>Bagheera
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#3195 - 12/22/01 07:26 PM
Re: Blade holder in PSK
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Veteran
Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 1272
Loc: Upper Mississippi River Valley...
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Bagherra,<br><br>LoL! I always wished I could have made time to take some shop classes... fast forward 30 years when I said to myself "Hey! I can afford to buy a lathe and a mill... why not learn on my own...?" So I did and I am. Sounds like you are already a skilled machinist in need of a machine to use...<br><br>Let me tinker a bit with this one and I'll either make one for you or hook you up with a countryman of yours who is on our machining forum. Metric bored and threaded for you, I assume? It's just as easy for me to make it metric, so it does not matter to me.<br><br>Aside to Andy - I'll post pics when I get done with the first one. If there is interest, I'll take some pics of how to do it with a drill press - everyone knows someone who has a drill press, I imagine.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Scouter Tom
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#3196 - 12/22/01 08:54 PM
Re: Blade holder in PSK
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journeyman
Registered: 11/30/01
Posts: 62
Loc: The Netherlands (Europe)
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Tom,<br><br>I'm absolutely no skilled machenist. I love target shooting and collect (old) Airpistols and sometimes got one of the older solid metal Webley Airpistols with pins etc. lost, broken etc.<br><br>An older gunsmith with hands like shovels knew me and offered some help and he learned me to work a little with a lathe. I still remember the first time I turned some thread onto the new chamber closure of an Webley Airpistol that I made and I disengaged the automatic feed instead of stopping it and reversing it while I had the cutting head turned back. I didn't understand why my threading looked like multiple spirals until he explaned it to me what I should do. I had to make another chamber plug but I will never forget what I should not do when turning a thread onto something ;)<br><br>Best Scouting wishes from Holland,<br><br>Bagheera
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#3197 - 12/22/01 09:34 PM
Re: Blade holder in PSK
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Enthusiast
Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 280
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Tom,<br><br>Just wondering....what kind of lathe do you have? I've always wanted one. I've been looking at a Sheridan machine, one with a mill attachment; it looks like a good buy. It's very small, intended for small work, but I've never needed to do any large work and I have no room for a full size machine anyway. Do you know anything about them? I've gotten by so far with basic hand tools and a Dremel tool. Most of the stuff (with several spectacular failures, including one small house fire) I've done so far has worked, but everything has been uglier than homemade sin, and some of the projects I would like to do require a bit of precision (well beyond freehand Dremel tool tolerances). <br><br>Also, I'd appreciate an address for the machinist's forum you mentioned earlier. <br><br>Thank you and Happy Holidays,<br>Andy
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#3198 - 12/23/01 03:36 AM
Re: Blade holder in PSK
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Addict
Registered: 12/06/01
Posts: 601
Loc: Orlando, FL
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Yes, please post pictures. Sounds like an interesting and quick project. <br>Andy, I don't know anything about the Sheridan machines, but if you are looking for small lathes you might want to look at these. Know poeple with both and they all like them.<br>http://www.taigtools.com/<br>http://www.sherline.com/<br>If you want to know more about machining, subscribe to the Home Shop Machinist. This site also has message boards and links to other sites.<br>Http://www.homeshopmachinist.net/<br>Another popular home machinist message board is at,<br>http://www.chaski.com/cgi-bin/machine_index.cgi<br>
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#3199 - 12/23/01 04:26 AM
Re: Blade holder in PSK
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Enthusiast
Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 280
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Ray,<br><br>Thank you!<br><br><br>Happy holidays,<br><br>Andy
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#3200 - 12/23/01 08:16 AM
A few pics and weights (mass)
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Veteran
Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 1272
Loc: Upper Mississippi River Valley...
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The darned EzAwl needles are longer than I remembered, so I had to modify on the fly. One consequence was that I used the scrap of cut-off handle as material to make a hollowed, knurled cap. Not much room for me to slip a lanyard in the cap now, but it's possible.<br><br>Added info: Tossed these on the balance. The blade collet and collet sleeve are not altered - "factory weight". Cap and body are machined from original handle.<br><br>Cap - Aluminum, 24 grains (1.6 grams)<br>Body - Aluminum, 112 grains (7.3 grams)<br>collet - Aluminum, 41 grains (2.7 grams)<br>sleeve - Steel, 87 grains (5.6 grams)<br>saw blade - steel, 63 grains (4.1 grams)<br>guard - Aluminum, 14 grains (0.9 grams)<br><br>Total - 341 grains or 0.78 ounces Av. (22.1 grams)<br><br>As I said, fairly lightweight. I imagine that two blades and the needles will bring total weight to about one ounce (28.3 grams) or a little less - I will post final weight later. TGA<br><br>Here are a few pics for now - these should give the general idea of where it's heading:<br><br> <br><br> <br><br> <br><br><br> <br><br><br> <br><br><br> <br><br><br>The knurling on the body is so-so for looks - I did not want to crimp down too hard and alter the inside diameter of the body. The knurling on the cap is full-depth.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Scouter Tom
Edited by AyersTG (12/23/01 09:17 PM)
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#3201 - 12/23/01 02:24 PM
Re: A few pics
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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*bows, forhead scrapping carpet*<br><br>You have way more skill with metal than I. Like Chris, maybe you should contemplate marketting this idea. It would be a patentantable thing, I think, then just a matter of finding someone to make them, and raking in your three cents per unit royalty. <br><br>I know I'd buy a "few".
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#3202 - 12/23/01 02:35 PM
Re: A few pics
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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WOW That was a great idea. Probably one of the best cutting options I have seen for a PSK yet
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#3203 - 12/23/01 04:34 PM
Re: Blade holder in PSK
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newbie member
Registered: 05/01/01
Posts: 10
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Tom, thanks for the great idea. Even without machine equipment, I used your idea. I removed the knife chuck, cut the handle to fit a "Sucrets" sized candy tin. This allowed me to keep the handle a little longer. I ground a hacksaw blade to fit the blade chuck with a drill and grinding stone. I removed some cheap razor type blades that folded into a handle rom the handle and ground them so that they would fit into the chuck.
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#3204 - 12/24/01 01:58 AM
Re: Blade holder in PSK
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Great stuff! what's the L shaped thingy?
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#3205 - 12/24/01 06:23 AM
Re: Blade holder in PSK
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Veteran
Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 1272
Loc: Upper Mississippi River Valley...
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Great! As you probably noticed, the handle is soft alloy and the chuck is a harder alloy - probably 6061. Since the handle is so soft, you could easily gouge a groove along the outside of the body - or two or three - deep and wide enough to hold a sewing needle or two. <br><br>The simplest way would be to remove the collet and sleeve and carefully hacksaw the groove to depth, then widen as needed by file. Or, for a closed ended slot, like plunge milling, a small woodcarver's gouge, or an engravers burin could do the job. Drop the needles in place, wrap a little orange (or black) electrical tape around the handle, and you've stowed your needles. If you use the hacksaw, put a dab of 5 min epoxy or JB Weld at both ends of the slot(s) to keep the needles from sliding out.<br><br>Also, a few minutes work with a file to reduce the handle cross-section to an oval would reduce the handle weight 20-30 percent and THEN you could still do the grooves if you wanted. Just be careful to not get too far forward with the filing or you'll cut into the rebate at the front.<br><br>Just a thought... oh, for those without a grinder - most hacksaw blades can be shaped with a file; certainly the "normal" ones can. I have not checked a bi-metal blade, but I suspect it is also easily shaped by file as well. Grinders are a sure bet, tho.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Tom
Edited by AyersTG (12/24/01 06:27 AM)
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#3206 - 12/24/01 07:29 PM
Re: Blade holder in PSK
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Yow. I was just thinking of getting one of the x-acto clones at the local dollar store and cutting the handle off ... but you're idea is much better.<br><br>I especially like the 'modified hacksaw blade' idea.<br><br>- Tristan<br>
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#3207 - 12/24/01 08:48 PM
Re: Blade holder in PSK
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Geezer
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
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Unless they have stopped making them in the last few years, X-acto offers hacksaw type blades which should fit your generic handle just fine. For those without a grinder...<br><br>And I love your idea. I don't have a lathe or drill press (yet), but I am pretty good with hacksaw, file, and dremel, so I will be making one. You are a very inventive guy...
_________________________
OBG
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#3208 - 12/24/01 09:07 PM
Re: Blade holder in PSK
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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You're probably thinking the #13 blade. It's rated to maybe thin roofing metal, and that's about it, and only for a short time. I think it was probably really ment for softer, copper-based alloys in making various crafts. <br><br>The #15 and #27 really aren't up to being used on metal, but they are longer and work on light woods and plastics. <br><br>The #26 whitting blade might be perfect for PSK use.<br><br>For those who are interested, <br>http://www.einsteins-emporium.com/col-supply/x-acto/ctx10.htm<br><br>http://www.x-actoblades.com/xacto/xpage1.htm
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#3209 - 12/25/01 06:59 PM
Re: Blade holder in PSK
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Geezer
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
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You obviously know a lot more about them than I do, so I bow to your knowledge. Thanks for the info...
_________________________
OBG
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#3210 - 12/25/01 08:55 PM
Re: Blade holder in PSK
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I just know the #13 from having used it to cut cable notches in circuit boards, for one lab, back in college. The others are based on the catalog's data and talking to people who use them a lot. <br><br>My knowledge with them isn't <i>that</i> much greater than most.
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#3211 - 12/27/01 03:28 AM
Re: Blade holder in PSK
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Tom,<br><br>Great invention! You might consider drilling a hole through the shaft, large enough to accommodate a sturdy cotter pin (to be included in your kit), to serve as a T-handle. This would be handy when attempting repairs on thick materials like canvas, leather, etc.. You could also use the hole to attach a lanyard.<br><br>Best Regards, Barry
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#3212 - 12/27/01 02:12 PM
Re: Blade holder in PSK
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Old Hand
Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 780
Loc: NE Illinois, USA (42:19:08N 08...
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>>>I can describe how to do this accurately with a small drill press (and one COULD do it with a hand-held drill IF one was very, very skilled).<<<<br><br>The trick would be to keep the bit centered and parallel to the surface so it doesn't break through. I have very little experience in this type of work, but I'd start with a very small diameter bit to drill a pilot hole. That would be easier to visually line up. You could then drop in a straight bit of wiire and view from the side to determine how sucessful you were. I have some left over wires for supporting insulation in ceiling joists. They are thin and rigid and about 16" long, which would extend the visual sight lineof the hole so you can see if it's centered all the way around. Then bore out the rest with a larger bit. The smaller shaft will keep the bigger bit centered. <br><br>I don't have dies or taps to create the threading, so I would consider finding a stainless steel set screw from the hardware store that has a slightly larger diameter than the interior shaft. The threads from the screw should be hard enough to "cut" threads in the soft aluminum of the handle.<br><br>BTW, if you do not intend to include it in your PSK, then I wouldn't shorten the shaft. Then you can drill a deeper hole and you won't have to shorten youe awl needles either.
_________________________
Willie Vannerson McHenry, IL
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