Ok gang:

It has been over a year since I purchased Suse Linux Personal Edition 8.2 and it is finally time to fish or cut bait.

For several months now, I have been using my secondary computer which has a Soyo Super 7 board with an AMD K6-2 533 Mhz processor.

My primary computers hard drive kissed the dirt and I have been waiting for a really good deal before I replace the 6 Gig primary hard drive on the primary computer. It has a 3 Gig secondary hard drive, but I do my backing up on the secondary hard drive and did not want to blow it up without transferring everything on my new hard drive first. As of right now, I don't know if I will be able to get anything off of my former primary drive, but the really vital stuff is backed up on the secondary drive.

I bought a new 120 Gig Western Digital at Circuit City for $39.99 after rebates. My 6 Gig drive only had about 1.8 Gig being used, so I have storage up the Wazoo and would have bought a smaller hard drive but for the price. It did't make sense to pay more for less.

I am going to Linux because I am tired of Microsoft's prices for software that is always "IMPROVED", yet constantly being debugged. I am tired of upgrades that are averaging $80..00 for "PERSONAL" editions and close to $200.00 for "PROFESSIONAL" editions. I am going to Suse Linux from Germany for $39.99 that I paid for my "PERSONAL" edition of 8.2 which can be upgraded FREE to 9.1 although their tech staff at Suse said the advantages are not that great and that I should stick with 8.2 unless I want the power of the "PROFESSIONAL" edition for an extra $60.00 and they said the average user does not need the "PROFESSIONAL" edition.

For those of you that are interested, the new Suse Linux Personal 9.1 costs only $29.99 + shipping for a disc set or you can load the complete system, minus registration rights and privileges for free over the internet.

Suse Linux allows you to install it and Windows on different virtual drives and allows you to choose which one you want to work with. I currently own Windows 98SE and do not see myself going beyond Windows 2000 if I can find someone to sell me their certified Microsoft disc.

I currently have 9 computers which I will be selling to low income unemployed here in Milwaukee. These have to be software loaded and tested, and I have been advised by Suse that I can copy 9.1 off the internet, and supply the disks to people that buy the computers from me at no charge, so long as I tell the buyers that they do not get ownership registration rights and privileges unless they pay for a certified copy. Can't beat that with a swizzle stick!

I chose Suse's version of Linux because of the research I have heard they put into it, and they are also the least expensive of the 3 major Linux distributors.

As I sit here and write this, I keep thinking of the poem, "The Charge of the Light Brigade" and wondering why I keep doing these dumb challaging things when I could be learning and having fun with an established working operating system, and have come to the conclusion that I may be more nuts than I thought.

So if you do not see or hear from me for a while, it is because I like to go whole hog after a problem until it is resolved or until they put me in that weird white coat where the arms tie in the back. If I am gone more than a month (Rarely happens.), I got frustrated and lost count of the muscle relaxants I took and will probably be in detox for a while <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/ooo.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Into the valley of death he rode---------------------

Bountyhunter <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I use Redhat more and more, for the same reasons you use Suse. I've found that it's fine for most people to do most things.

Hey, Bounty !
I will feel lonely, if I haven't my dayly dose of puns to decipher, from your posts.
So, come back quickly... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

In the meantime, I will maybe do the same.
I also have several computers, using mainly two of them.
But I have a server, unused up to now. I'd like to use it on my local intranet, to test web sites aso.., so maybe I should try to install a Linux on it. Suze or Mandrake .... I have not yet decided....
let's see......

I decided to fish instead of cutting bait some time ago. I converted my laptop to Suse 8.2 with no Windows partition left. That version failed to support my ltmodem. I found a driver that did the job here . Apart from that I was happy with my choice.
I´d like to add that Suse also offers a free live evaluation version on a CD. You can boot and run the version from CD without installing. That way it´s possible to try it without messing up the original installation.
For those who like to see if Linux is something they might like I recommend the free Knoppix CD . It´s a full distribution that boots and runs from CD. It doesn´t mess with the hard drive installation either.
Linux may not be a mainstream operating system but it sure is established and working. With most distribution it´s no longer a real challenge to install them. I managed to install an intranet server from scratch for my home with a Debian distribution in about 20 minutes of work (actual installation took longer but didn´t need supervision) despite having no prior Linux experience.

I converted an obsolete 486 DX 100 machine to a Linux intranet server. I was pleasantly surprised by the performance. I selected Debian for it. The age of the machine narrows the choice a bit.

Hey,

I've been dual-booting for a lot of years, Debian, Mandrake, Lycoris, Suse, and now Fedora Core 2.

My "home" machine has gotten really old and obsolete, and in that process, much to my dismay, my "linux" drive bit the dust "stranding" me in Winows for a few months. Really painful, if you're used to software that just works, and tons of free applications.

Since then I've become legally self-employed again, meaning hardware is deductible again, and two new replacement machines are currently in the middle of my home-office floor being configured. There are some REALLY sweet deals on Dell 400SC servers these days if you know how to go about it, and they're easily converted to very good desktop machines. Both of these will still be dual-boot, but the plan is, sometime in the next 6 months, to retire one to dedicated server use, and build a MS-free/Intel-free box for my own desktop (about half the parts are already at hand).

I used SUSE for a bit, but found it a bit clunky. I would recommend taking a look at Fedora. It's a fork off of Red Hat, and has taken on a life of it's own... and it's mainstreaming, in that you can take advantage of really huge numbers of Red Hat RPGs out there, plus apt-get. And it's free. Really. Not just a trial version. The recipients of your efforts won't owe anyone.
______________

No matter which defintion of "free" software you use, it does mean that there's no Bill to pay.

I made the switch about a year ago and this has been the first year I haven't had to reinstall clean since windows 3.1 in the early 90's. I've created and kept a lot of documents since the late 80's and early 90's that I have transferred from computer to computer, OS to OS and XP with its activation and the DRM stuff that has the potential to be in the next version of MS office and the annoying bugs in XP helped me make the switch. I spend so much more time now actauly using my system to do things I want and not installing updates, and keeping the spyware removal and antivirus programs up to date (I used to spend an average on one hour per day just on computer maintenance)

nope, your just fine, i wish i could dump xp for linux but maybe i will experiment on this one when i invest in a new pc.

i personally do not like MS windows because xp is such a terrible program (anything based after NT is actually, same vulnerability).
but what offends me the most is the price they gouge you for because most people dont feel they can go elsewhere for a operating system.
when i bought this pc i didnt even get a win xp operating system cd like i did with past computers, they want you to buy another are they nuts?
if i paid FOR the os i want the disc of that os its only fair and logical.

this is the same as the vcr VS. betamax situation in the past. betamax was a superior system quality wise but the vhs people convinced the public that there was "just something wrong with betamax its too different etc" and crushed the product and consumed the market.


that goes for browsers too, most people use IE or netscape, but theres alot of people moving towards new browsers like opera and others.
i used to be a die hard netscape user untill too many problems made me start using IE.
if anyone uses opera or a new browser give an opinion about it.

NY Rat rightly points out that I typed "Red Hat RPGs" when I meant "Red Hat RPMs", sorry if I confused anyone. Didn't we have more time to edit these things in the past?

Second retraction in just a few days, I'm batting zero here, time to shut up. At least I managed to resist flaming that Flipper troll...
<img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Opera was much quicker than IE, but it's proprietary, closed-source, and the free version has ads.

FireFox is a fork off of Mozilla, it's been very stable, has tabbed browsing, pop-up suppression, better security and control than IE, it's about as fast as Opera (as far as I can tell), is open source and free, and runs on multiple platforms. As a professional programmer, that last is important to me, as it means that I can use the same tools in Linux at home and Windows in the workplace. You can get it at mozilla.org- be careful to get a stable version for your first experimentation, not the latest Beta. Most people are up and running with it in 15 minutes, and in 15 days won't go back.

There are some sites (notably those composed with MS FrontPage extensions, that is, MS proprietary "extensions" (lock-ins) to HTML), that seem to only work with IE... but the only way we're ever going to get away from that is to get away from IE and complain to the people who put up such sites.

>>but what offends me the most is the price they gouge you for because most people dont feel they can go elsewhere for a operating system.<<

I hope we're in the death-throes of this monopoly now, and they're gouging for whatever they can get, while they still can.

As of right now (since I'm a programmer and hobbyist) I have four computers in my personal office. Unusually, for someone in that position, I have four LEGAL copies of Windows, and of Office. Just for that, I have more money in the software than in the hardware (at least, not counting LCD monitors). Add some basic software just to get the hardware working (fax modems, DVD burners) and you're up to $1,000 per PC.

Then, you boot to the Linux side, and suddenly almost all the applications are free. Thousands of programs, often several in each category, available for download at no cost. Even when I do contribute money to the effort (and I have), NO ONE expects or requires me to buy another copy of every program for each and every PC in the room, even though some are only used occasionally.

The real money savings in Linux, if that's what you care about, is not in the OS, it's in the apps. Check sourceforge and freshmeat.

>>when i bought this pc i didnt even get a win xp operating system cd like i did with past computers, they want you to buy another are they nuts? if i paid FOR the os i want the disc of that os its only fair and logical.<<

The OEM version of Windows that ships with PCs is supposedly "discounted", and you cannot legally install it on any other machine. In the case of XP, it actually tracks the hardware, and if you change too much, it refuses to load... and MS generally will not give you another key for an OEM version. Their stance is that for you to legally move it from one PC to another (never mind that the first PC is now a pile of ashes) you must buy the "full" (priced) version, at close to twice the cost.

In this wonderful world of IP that we live in now, it doesn't matter a bit how many hundreds of dollars you spent for the software, you don't "own" anything.. you're paying to have MS tolerate your use of their software on very limited terms.

>>this is the same as the vcr VS. betamax situation in the past. betamax was a superior system quality wise but the vhs people convinced the public that there was "just something wrong with betamax its too different etc" and crushed the product and consumed the market.<<

Actually, you may have that sort of backwards. Betamax was the first VCR standard, and dominated the industry for a time. It was arguably superior, but there are still heated arguments about that, and the difference, if any, wasn't something that most people could see.

But it was a proprietary Sony standard, and licensed by them. Sony loves proprietary standards, see "memory sticks", "minidisks", etc. Even some of their earlier CD burners defaulted to a Sony proprietary format.

So, a consortium of other electronics manufacturers (I think JVC was the prime motivator) came up with the VHS format as an alternative that, being a lot more open, also had the potential to make VCR tapes a lot less expensive. So, there was a war in the marketplace, stores and rentals were divided for awhile between the standards, but the public "voted" with their dollars, mostly on the basis of price and availability of equipment.

Ironically, there's a legal movement afoot right now to revoke the judicial "Betamax" decisiion that established your right to copy broadcast programs for your own use. The entertainment industry wants to go back to total control. They'll let you time-shift what you want to watch, and even make crippled copies- so long as you pay for the privilege.

I don´t think there´s too much need to complain to people who make IE specific sites. If I´m in the mood and it´s a commercial site I might inform them that I wanted to have buisiness with them but they forced me to have it with a competitor. It´s amazing that some of those companies think people might come back after they learned that a site doesn´t work with their browser.
I´m a big fan of Firefox and Mozilla too. They´re really good out of the box. With a couple of extensions they´re just great.

In order to install Suse, Firebox etc.. and all the extensions you mention, do you need to know how to use vi (is that the editor ?) ??

A few years ago, I had a week long intro to Unix.
It seemed to me I had been taken back in time, to the 70's when I had my first courses on computing, trying to program in machine language.... <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Is it still necessary or has some progress been made since... ?

Much progress has been made since. Out of the box, almost any distribution (RedHat, Suse, etc), will give you a GUI install program. You still have to know what you're doing, but you shouldn't have to edit any config files for the install.

After the install, both KDE and Gnome offer GUI system administration tools. Can't say too much about them because I don't use them.

Someone earlier recommended Knoppix for those who'd like to try Linux without installing. I agree. It's excellent. Just download the image, make a CD of it and boot! Now you have a very capable linux machine without installing anything. Full GUI environment, good selection of applications, etc.

Knoppix is part of my geek EDC. You can do all sorts of cool stuff with just a Knoppix CD and a USB drive.

Get Knoppix here.

Suse has a good GUI for the installation and a pretty good hardware detection. When you use the default settings it provides a running system. The tools for fine tuning are easy to use. The entire configuration can be done with the configuration tools. Modern machines have enough memory to use KDE which provides several editors for editing the configuration files if you like. My installation on the 486 required the use of vi (which is an editor) as the machine doesn´t have enough RAM for KDE.
Firefox comes with an installer. For Windows it´s just start the installer and decide where you want it. For Linux it has to be unpacked and then started. It´s no real hassle. 15 min for getting it running is rather pesimistic. The extensions can be downloaded via the menu Tools->Extensions. You have the choice to install immediately or download and install via File->Open File. I usually do the latter as I like to have the files for later installation and to save bandwith (I distribute the extensions to several machines).

I've just had a thought.

Backing up all our essential information on CD takes various forms, with various programs, exel, word, TIFF, jpeg scans etc.

How about a copy of knoppix/ mandrake move/ damn small linux on one CD,with all that essential information in whatever format on another CD. Then you would essentially have your operating system with you all the time and not be dependant on whatever system you find which may not be able to read your file.

This is from someone whose only exposure with linux is Mac OS X. I have ordered the knoppix cd and will test it on my Windoze machine soon.

Just a thought.
<img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

If I recall correctly, I think Knoppix et al do NOT want you to eject the CD while the OS is running... which sort of seems like a reasonable restriction. If that's the case, it would have to be a system with two optical drives, or you'd have to copy one to the HD first, or something... or, if they have a DVD drive, you could easily have it all on one disk.

The way flash-RAM prices are plummeting, though, I'd bet on the future of thumb/pen drives instead. The largest I see around now are 1GB, but that's nearly the contents of 2 CDs, and they're getting more capacious and cheaper all the time.

This approach has a few drawbacks. As Presumed_Lost stated you need to leave the CD in the drive (the programs runs from there). You also need to able to boot from the CD drive. That may not be a problem at your home but some admins are not going to allow that on their machines.
If you just need access to the information a portable format like HTML,XML or PDF may be better. There are readers for most operating systems.
BTW:
The Knoppix CD can be legally remastered to contain the OS, a few programs and your data. You may have to ditch some of the programs on the CD to make room for your data (you don´t need the cool games for your purpose, do you?) but it should be feasible.

Well,
scratch that idea then...... <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
I guess storing everything in PDF would be easier....

Can't wait for the Knoppix CD to arrive....
Thanks to all who have piqued my interest in Linux....
Enough of Microshaft...... <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Well, all the software is in, but for reasons unknown, neither the US ROBOTICS software nor the Win98se software can detect my US Robotics V92 Performance Pro Modem.

The modem is the same one that was in there before the disk drive hit the dirt, and I am having a bird trying to figure out what happened where and why. I followed the troubleshooting guide book that came with the modem, and also the troubleshooting guide in the "read me" files software. The "My Computer" selection does not operate the way they have it listed, and I haven't been able to find any IRQ conflicts in the System Files. Win98se does not have a driver for the new V92 format, and loading a V90 format (Which would have operated the modem.) did not help at all. I remember the sequence dance I had to do when I installed my Zoom V92 modem in my secondary computer which required loading the software first and then installing the modem, but even that did not work for my US Robotics modem installation.

I don't believe it is a result of the dual installation as I loaded Win98se and all its related software first, and the modem was not detected. I then loaded Suse Linux hoping it would find the modem, and it did not. Something ain't happening in that electronic mass (mess?).

Funny thing is I disconnected my small 3 Gig hard drive while formatting the new 120 Gig into two 60 Gig virtual drives, and when I reattached the 3 Gig unit prior to loading software it came up as drive "D" with 60 Gig as drive "C" and 60 Gig as drive "E". When I started to reload Win98se, it wanted to default load on drive "D", the 3 Gig drive. I specified drive "C" for Win98se as well as all its programs, and I let Suse Linux use its own default settings.

I'm going to have to call US Robotics and see what, if anything I have missed. In the meantime, if anyone on board has any helpful ideas, I would appreciate the input.

Until I get the primary computer up and running right, I am going to have to stay away from chat rooms except for resolution of my computer problems, so please forgive me if I do not answer PM's or posts which are unrelated to fixing the computer.

Thanks a bunch!

Bountyhunter <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Well, you know .... computer science IS NOT an exact (accurate ?) science.
If it was, everybody would know it ! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I wanted, for already a long time, to install some Linux on an unused Compaq 1850R server I have.
Your post about Suse induced me to try it.
I downloaded a CD image from the german Suse web site, burnt a CD and launch an installation : after a few hours, I got a list of 50 or 100 packages in error and the loader installation refused to end correctly !
Result : I still don't have any Linux installed ... <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
(just for fun : I gave that CD to a co-worker who launched the same instal procedure on a Sun server : no problemo, everything worked fine !!) <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I can't help with the Windoze side, haven't used windows in years.

Is it a PCI modem? If so, try using the command "lspci" to see what PCI devices where found. You should see several lines that look like this:
<pre><font class="small">code:</font><hr>
00:1f.5 Multimedia audio controller: Intel Corp. 82801EB/ER (ICH5/ICH5R) AC'97 Audio Controller (rev 02)
00:1f.6 Modem: Intel Corp. 82801EB/ER (ICH5/ICH5R) AC'97 Modem Controller (rev 02)
01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc RV350 [Mobility Radeon 9600 M10]
</pre><hr>
Your modem should be one of them. You can also try using the "dmesg" command to see if your modem was found when linux booted.

Have you tried the standard voodoo? Move the card to a different slot, pull it out and reseat it, power off for 30 seconds, then try again?

I've seen those old server cd-rom drives go dead just from sitting for so long. Server runs for 3 years blowing a the bit of dust in the air on the drive electronics and when you try to use it it will run a bit then die. Suse does have an ftp option, you could boot from the suse cd and start the rest of the install from network.

If it´s a softmodem Suse 8.2 most probably doesn´t have the driver on the CD / DVD. When I did the installation Linux failed to detect the modem but it identified the chipset properly. I found a driver here . The installation warned about the version of the default kernel and reboot tended to freeze afterwards (a complete shutdown did work). An update solved this problem.

Groo:

It is a PCI modem with its own onboard processor.

Did all the standard voodoo including modifying port settings.

This modem is almost 2 years old and has been very reliable and was working before hard drive meltdown.

At what point do you issue the commands you mention. This is my first loading of Linux and I want all the hardware working in Windows before I start experimenting with Linux unless you think Linux may push some button to bring the modem in line.

Thanks!

Bountyhunter

Understood. I don't think linux will fix the modem, but I've had success using linux to diagnose problems like this. I suppose a windows expert could get the same stuff, but linux makes it relatively easy to get detailed hardware information. Linux is transparent, predictable. I'm never sure what windows is doing behind all those GUIs (graphical user interfaces).

Anyway, the two commands (lspci and dmesg) can be issued any time after the system has come all the way up. Log in, open a command window (it'll be called something like "command shell", "xterm", "console", etc.), and type "lspci" (no quotes). Then type "dmesg" (no quotes). Neither one will do anything to the hardware. Both just print some information that may or may not be helpful. I'm hoping lspci at least shows your modem even if it's not being assigned to a device. If your modem doesn't show up, it might be dead. :-(

Edit: As you know, there are several different linux distributions. They're all slightly different. If you get "command not found" for either of the above commands, you probably still have the command but it's not in your default PATH.

Groo:

After more voodoo and trying the 2 different methods detailed in the installation sheet that did not work for me, I found a third method listed and the modem came on line.

As soon as I find (I forget which pile of documentation on which desk, drawer, table, box, file cabinet, etc., I "organized" the info in. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />), the settings for my ISP provider, I should be able to log on with my Primary AMD 1700+, 1.47 Gigahertz computer. I know I can get most of the info off of this secondary unit, but I prefer original instructions in order to get it right.

To all, thanks for the help, and buy Linux. As long as you are not using Windows XP with its different disk formatting protocol, you should be able to have a dual operating system platform and more of us can learn Linux together.

Bountyhunter <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Excellent!

I don't use Suse, so I don't know how to turn it on, but most linux distros include firewall software. I'd use it, even for a dialup connection. After that, be sure to disable any services you don't need (sendmail, portmapper, nfs, telnet, ftp, etc.) It's possible to make a linux machine very secure with a little effort.

There is a really cool new version of Damn Small Linux called the Metropipe portable virtual machine which is a virtual linux machine that runs from a USB key - it uses emulation technology to actually run DSL from the USB drive with all of your settings, data etc on the drive. You plug it in, double click on the machine and it starts up, giving you the same environment whether you run it from windows or linux. I keep one on my USB key for when I need to use other people's machines.

That is extremely cool

I downloaded the preview release and kept it on my usb key and just tried running it yesterday.
Is there a minimum processor speed / ram requirement? The virtual machine was soooo slow. It was cool to be able to carry a virtual linux machine in your pocket.

I haven't tried it on older machines - it seems to run fine on my 2GHz Dell <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />