I would carry my Leatherman Charge, which I do. Best multi-tool yet. Having a 154cm one handed opening blade and a pocket clip means it is about as close to one of my Benchmades as a multi-tool could get.

Remember that some of us live outside the states. Even drawing a knife in an altercation is a criminal offence, even if faced with a gun. Self defence with a weapon is illegal. Note that carrying the baton at all is illegal and I think the pepper spray may be as well.

Dave,

Did you even read what you wrote?

You are afraid of jail for pulling a knife when a guy pulls a gun and is about to kill you. Hmmmmm?

If a guy pulls a knife on you is it ok to pull one on him then?

Makes you think don't it?

Flip

yes i did read what i wrote. The laws here (UK) are mad. If you are stopped and searched by the police and carrying a knife that you do not have good reason to carry then you will be prosecuted. Self defence is specifically NOT allowed as good reason. If found to be carrying a weapon on the streets and you claim its for self defence then you will be found guilty of possession of an offensive weapon. UK law does not allow carrying of weapons for self defence. That doesnt even include the ones that possession of is illegal full stop - ballisongs, autos, gravity knives, telescoping batons, kubotan etc. It may be mad but those are the laws. The only thing you have a right to carry without having to justify it to the authorities is a knife with a sub 3" non locking blade. Even then there are places such as schools where carrying that is an offence. And if you used it in defence you would almost certainly be prosecuted, hell even pulling it out of your pocket in that circumstance is an offence.

The chances of you meeting someone in the uk with a firearm on the streets isnt high though so possibly a bit of an exageration. There was a case earlier this year when an old lady in her 80's was burgled by armed intruders, she chased them out of her house with a katana. She got away with it being old. A young man may (up to the courts) have been found guilty. A few years ago a farmer shot a burgler inside his home with a shotgun and was tried and sent to prison for the killing. Even although one of his neighbours had been killed during a burglary.

I realise that lots of people carry a knife (including me) and that in extremis could use it as a weapon to defend themselves. My post was just meant as a reminder to be careful and not fall foul of the law and get arrested and prosecuted for being prepared. If stopped by the police in the UK DO NOT tell them your knife is for self defence (even if it is!) since that in itself is a crime. Just train yourself to come out with a more reasonable excuse. (useful advice for travellers to our island)

So what would be a good excuse in the UK, if you're carrying for example Doug's RSK1 in the city, say walking from home to the pub?

Dave,

In a slightly different vein: Suppose the victim happens to have an umberella or urban walking stick (cane) in hand and thrashes the attacker a bit with that "legitimate" object. Do you have any indication what action, if any, the government may/has taken to punish the victim for defending himself? I'm very interested in hearing a knowledgeable reply from you or any others in the UK. I am not interested in any sort of debate of whatever the current situation may be.

Before any of my fellow citizens jumps on this - that sort of defensive reflex can be charged as "assault" in most US municipalities. In many municipalities the police will automatically do that and let the lawyers and judges sort the truth out - at your expense and time, of course. That's the sad truth, not an indictment of police (although perhaps it is of some attorneys).

TIA,

Tom

locking knife's are also illegal there....

The laws are a bit strange in the UK. Some weapons are illegal, telescoping batons, autos, gravity knives, ballisong, shuriken, and a few others. They are illegal to carry, buy, sell, lend, import, export etc. If you already have one at home thats actually ok it just cant ever leave there!

A sub 3" non locking folder you can carry without an excuse. If the police ask for one you just tell them its a sub 3" non locking folder and you dont need one. However you still cant carry one of those in a school or court or airport. The only other exceptions are when the knife is part of your national dress (Scotsmans Dirk and Sgian Dubh) or religion (Sikhs Kirpan).

Everything else you can carry as long as you have a reasonable excuse (self-defence doesnt count though). Whether the excuse is reasonable or not is up to the courts. So if you need a knife at work and feel a locking blade is safer then you could carry one reasonably at work and to and from work. The police might object to you going home via the pub though. I've carried a katana (in a bag) to a dojo - no problem there. Knives for sailing, climbing, diving, woodcraft etc. You just have to be able to justify it. I've stood and talked to a policeman and he could see I was carrying a diving knife, I was also carrying all the other stuff though so he said nothing. Note that in a city a knife will be frowned upon but you probably could take a billhook into a countryside pub for lunch and no one would bother. Its open to loads of interpretation. Technically the Leatherman wave is illegal for EDC in the UK but unless you are causing trouble you would probably just have to say its a useful tool and you would get away with it.

As to the specific question of carrying Dougs knife to the pub from home I cant think of any reasonable excuse off hand. Work to pub and had forgotten about it as its at the bottom of a pack perhaps but from home no.

Waving any blade or any other weapon is an offence in itself. And using any object is use of an offensive weapon if carried for that purpose. So baton bad walking stick ok. There is also some leeway so using a stick against person = assault, against 8 people with knives probably ok but you will be charged - its up to the court to then let you off with it.

The other thing is how likely are you to be stopped. If you look reasonable and dont cause trouble the police are unlikely to search you in the first place. If you look like a thug and act in a threatening way you could be searched and I'm affraid Doug's lovely locking knife would be removed.

There is loads more and better info available on the British Blades Forums including several serving policemen who would be willing to answer any questions if you wanted to visit the UK. Dont know how to put up a link but I have seen Chris there so he may be able to. please?

Quote: In a slightly different vein: Suppose the victim happens to have an umberella or urban walking stick (cane) in hand and thrashes the attacker a bit with that "legitimate" object. Do you have any indication what action, if any, the government may/has taken to punish the victim for defending himself? I'm very interested in hearing a knowledgeable reply from you or any others in the UK. I am not interested in any sort of debate of whatever the current situation may be.


Depends on the situation. Relative no of attackers, relative ages etc etc. I do know of one case where 2 old men (one ex-SAS the other RAF Regiment) were attcked by 6 youths who tried to rob them. They beat them with their walking sticks (both walked with a limp) so badly that the thugs pressed for the police to charge the old men with assault. The police let the old men go and charged the youths.

Its all relative. If someone attacked you and you used any implement at all to beat them off. You were both relatively fit males, he was injured by you at all and you were unscathed. Then you will almost certainly be charged with assault. (has happened). If two guys with knives attack you and you take a stab wound first then you would be entitled to a lot more leeway. Friend of mine took a stab wound and then retaliated,(with a baton taken off of one of his attackers) the least injured of the 4 attackers had his jaw wired together and a couple of broken ribs. The attackers were charged with assault and friend wasnt. Its open to the interpretation of the police or whichever judge and jury hear your case basically.

UK law does not allow use of any objects legitamately by default. If you pick up an object and hit someone with it then you have used an offensive weapon (UK law does not recognise the existance of defensive weapons - they are all offensive).

www.britishblades.com

there is a law forum moderated by a serving policeman and you can ask specific questions. One of the moderators is a lawyer as well.

a quick summary of the uk is that the law has been designed to be open ended. If you have a need to carry something and are responsible then you can. If you dont need to or cant be trusted you cant. and if you attack someone you can be arrested whether or not the weapon is on a list. <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> Only problem is that self-defence and emergency prepardness are not acceptable as reasons <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />