#3139 - 12/15/01 03:56 AM
Fixed blade carry question
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Veteran
Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 1272
Loc: Upper Mississippi River Valley...
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Where do you like to carry your fixed blade knives and why do you like that method(s)?<br><br>For many reasons, I have not often carried fixed blades on my person - the closest to that carry usually has been on LCE when I was trudging around for Uncle, or (rarely) strapped to an accessible part of my pack suspension. Usually my fixed blade knife or knives are safely stashed inside my pack.<br><br>If I'm carrying a pack with a hip belt, I cannot stand to have a knife on my belt for what I hope are obvious reasons. (If I'm carrying, ditto for a pistol most of the time - shoulder rigs work better for me, although one particular one works OK on the belt in a particular holster).<br><br>I've tried carrying on belt when I'm scouting (recon, not BSA) with a small day pack. That would usually be a Kershaw knife I am inordinately fond of, not too big - probably about a 4 inch blade. It bugs me, though, on two counts: 1) Falling and skewering the knife into my thigh (yeah, I know - don't fall) and 2) losing the knife. Maybe a wunderkind replacement sheath to allay my concerns? They seem to be bulky and some seem to rely on friction alone for security - I don't expect to get into a knife quick-draw contest...<br><br>But my question is not restricted to my "favorite" hunting knife. I've got my eye on one of Chris Reeve's blades and I'm ready to OK at least two of my sons to carry fixed blades - maybe the Bushman or Mini Bushman they're getting for Christmas, but more likely something more "conventional".<br><br>What about horizontal carry (small of the back or???) What are the pluses and minuses of that versus more conventional carry? With conventional carry, I've always assumed that outside of hip was least "dangerous" position - "hip pocket" position assumed to be not as safe, and let's not even consider the sloppy slide to the "stab the groin" position <shudder> - but are my assumptions valid?<br><br>I sure am looking forward to hearing responses to this...<br><br>TIA,<br><br>Tom<br><br>
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#3140 - 12/15/01 02:13 PM
Re: Fixed blade carry question
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Tom,<br><br>I used to try and carry a fixed blade at the hunting lease but always found the handle poking me in the side. This could probably be cured by a low ride sheath. I constantly found my self pushing the scabberd just forward of my back pocket. It just seemed to feel better there. I have a horizontal fixed blade I bought from an old shrimpboat builder about 15 years ago. It rides well but I'm always afraid it will fall out. Turns out the knife was made by Mr. Barbee of Fort Stockton, Texas. So I only wear it to weddings and BBQ's. Never tried it but I wonder how a leg carry would feel. All said, most of my work gets done with a Case folding hunter. Seen many a buck skinned on the single tree with one. Have heard nothing but good reviews on the Cold Steel Bushman, might get a couple for my too boys also.<br><br>Bruce<br>
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#3141 - 12/15/01 04:26 PM
Re: Fixed blade carry question
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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My fixed blade is a Cold Steel SRK. I love that knife, but I'm not too crazy about the sheath. It rides too low, it is floppy, and it is made of thin untreated leather which is starting to wear badly. I plan to make a new one out of thicker leather with a pouch for a small sharpening stone. When i make it, it will be a high-ride type with a tight fitting belt slot instead of the standard loop-over-the-belt-and-flop-around kind.<br><br>While wearing this and other knives, or my pistol, I usually end up sliding them around towards the back of my hip so that they don't jab me in the side when I am moving around. That position is less likley to get snagged on things which could undo any retaining snaps. While wearing a pack, I just slide it back as far as the pack will allow. I have tried sliding it forward but then it digs into my legs whenever I bend or kneel and i can't get into my fron pocket. You can try wearing the belt strap from the pack right over the knife, might help make it more secure and like you said you will not likley get into a knife quick draw contest. I have never tried the leg carry with gun or knife. It seems that might get snagged on brush easily.
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#3142 - 12/15/01 07:43 PM
Re: Fixed blade carry question
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Geezer
Registered: 09/30/01
Posts: 5695
Loc: Former AFB in CA, recouping fr...
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For a four inch or so blade, I have always liked to stuff the end of the sheath into my right rear pocket. A longer blade usually goes on my left side (I am right handed), that way I can get to it with either hand. I don't like low slung floppy belt items, be it holster or knive sheath. I either make my own from leather, or lately have been going to kydex. I have purchased from both Cutlery Shoppe and Blade Tech...they will custom make anything you want, within reason of course. Kydex will last forever, holds without a safety strap (although you can have one if you want)...
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OBG
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#3143 - 12/16/01 08:35 AM
Re: Fixed blade carry question
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I'm no expert but the two methods that work for me are neck carry ala Mors and horizontal carry. I carry a light Mora around the neck with 550 cord, safety pin,break away and slider. The break away and slider are my modifications. The good points are convient, assessable either hand, concealable, adaptable. The safety pin and two modes eliminate most of the draw backs. Use the safety pin when you want it more secure, upside down, running ect. The break away thier in the unlikely event you snag the cord so you don't hang yourself. The sliders their to add some more security slide down to better secure the knife in the sheath . When I go to bed and want to take the knife off I slide it up around my wrist like a lanyard so I can sleep comfortable but still have sure access, in the morning I slide it down and put it right back on my neck, makes it pretty hard to loose the knife. Plus worst case I aways have a knife and cord for bow drill,really speeds things up. I carry my big knife in a sheath that allows me to carry it either at the base of my pack horizontal to my waist, at my back horizontal without the pack or strong side vertical. The downside to horizontal carry is its hard to resheath the knife and if you fall on your back its toast. The big knife is mainly for fixed or emergency use . With the pack on the frame protects you in case of a fall if you can't dump it quick enough. At camp I switch to vertical, snaging, travel comfort ect . aren't an issue. Scouting it goes back to horizontal carry low and slow falling is not as big an issue and the neck knife does most of the work. That way I have the same draw point for the big knife when I'm most likely to need it, its concealed, snag free and comfortable while moving and easy of resheathing is not as big an issue. Thats the basics of what works for me hope it helps. I'm going to have to sign off for a while with Chrismas coming and a lot on my plate.
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#3144 - 12/16/01 10:42 PM
Re: Fixed blade carry question
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Veteran
Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 1272
Loc: Upper Mississippi River Valley...
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Thanks to everyone for the responses. I guess I should have framed the question a little better, too. I KNOW where I carry knives, and I'm trying to leverage all the (good) experiences here to learn more.<br><br>"Urban Carry" is not the question for now - heck, I'm too shy to carry a WAVE on my belt during normal business - sure, if I happen to be wearing it "after hours" and need to wander into a store, I leave it on. Would feel almost as comfortable with a large folder in those circustances. Meanwhile, I have sharps in my pockets that are "daily carry" and get by OK most places (courthouses, airports, etc. excepted).<br><br>Right now, I'm trying to take a more concientous (sp?) look at "non-urban" circumstances that do not involve any form of public transportation. Travel by private auto is a topic all unto itself and the situation can vary considerably, so let me ALSO set that aside for now, although I hope to return to that much later.<br><br>So... foot travel in non-urban USA, for whatever reason, frames it well enough. I've taken a look at my current habits - developed by my experiences - and am not as comfortable as I once felt. My habits developed willy-nilly, and an objective re-look reveals some things to me. At least one of the times I "screwed up", I might not have had as difficult a time if I had "layered" my gear better, in much the same fashion that I layer my clothing (but for other reasons). Discussions (where I ask questions and listen to replies) with sons has been helpful in pointing out areas to investigate, and our discussions about the matter of knife carry (on person vs on/in other gear) has been interesting but not firmly conclusive. They seem to spot the problems quickly and lucidly, but are not experienced enough to "know" "the answers" yet, of course. Hence, I turn here...<br><br>So far, leg carry seems at least promising. I use the cargo pockets on my trousers - very selective about what goes in them and how, but I use them. I'll have to rig up something to try out and see how to work around or with the cargo pocket. Wherever I wind up, I mean to make it the de rigor carry for me as it's important to me to have important items stowed the same place all the time. I'd prefer to not have to go to "plan B" for knife carry because I happen to be carrying one particular piece of other gear instead of another (like day pack vs external pack).<br><br>Please jump in with your experiences and ideas!<br><br>Tom
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#3145 - 12/17/01 01:19 AM
Re: Fixed blade carry question
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Enthusiast
Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 280
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Tom,<br><br>Thought I might as well throw in my two cents...<br><br>Have you considered NOT carrying a fixed blade knife? I don't. I haven't in the better part of two years, since I realized that I hadn't been using the [censored] thing (no sense lugging the thing around if I'm not going to use it.) I still carry one when humping a ruck for Uncle Sam (one weekend a month, two weeks a year, nowadays), but I have not carried one for anything else in quite sometime. <br><br>For everyday use, including work (I'm in construction...not much of a dress code), I have a Leatherman Wave and a Spyderco.<br><br>I have a Swiss Army knife (a Ranger model) for church and similar, unavoidable "dressy" occassions.<br><br>For camping I have a small hachet and a folding bowsaw in my pack, in addition to my everyday carries. <br><br>I've never missed the fixed blades.<br><br>Ade
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#3146 - 12/17/01 04:25 AM
Re: Fixed blade carry question
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Veteran
Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 1272
Loc: Upper Mississippi River Valley...
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Ade,<br><br>Well, actually, I have thought about it <grin> - especially since I recently saw that I can essentially replicate my Kershaw with a ta-da! folding Kershaw that is extremely similar. However, that only solves part of the problem. Even a modest size folder (or the Wave) carried on my person seems to present many of the same irritations for me as a fixed blade when I have a pack with a hip belt. Safer, yes.<br><br>I would not care to practice using my Kershaw (or the folding version of it) as a utility knife. It stays tucked away in the pack and only comes along when I'm hunting big game. I have a stout 6" blade utility knife that my wife gave me for Valentine's Day years ago and have used the heck out of it - it was a real eye opener for me at the time. It's not a perfect knife, but I miss it when I don't carry it afield :-(<br><br>I probably could use a stout folder similarly, but with a bit more restraint, I imagine. Hmmm. I'll take a hard look again at some folders. More food for thought...<br><br>Thanks<br><br>Tom<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
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#3147 - 12/17/01 01:26 PM
Re: Fixed blade carry question
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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You mentioned shoulder carry with a handgun. If this knife is to be carried in conjunction with the handgun, talk to the various leather makers about getting a combo holster, either for concealment, open-duty or hunting. They usually are a little (non-sarcastic little) pricier than you might expect for a gun-only rig, but if it is well secured, it is no more in the way that the hnadgun is if carried vertically, and is readily available to either hand if carried butt down. (I have one rig that carries a Hi-Power or a Commander-class 1911 and a Ka-Bar under my left arm, with three mags under the other, and it is no more noticable than the same rig without the knife would have been.)<br><br>Also, you may be carrying your knife on your hip too far foward. Set the front edge of your sheath just behind your trouser seam, and it might ride easier. <br><br>My biggest advise is to stay away from the calf sheaths you find sometimes- the [censored] things look as sexy as it gets, but they end up around your ankle in about ten steps, unless they are built into knee-length boots or your pants.
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#3148 - 12/17/01 08:17 PM
Re: Fixed blade carry question
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Enthusiast
Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 280
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Tom,<br><br>Just out of curiousity, what the heck are you doing with your fixed blade knives that you would be afraid to do with a folder? It's been awhile (19 years?), but I distinctly remember what I had to learn and do to get my "cut and tote." It sounds as if you might be bending the "rules" a bit, if you're that worried. <br>Yes, my tounge is in cheek on that; I'm sure you're competent, and Lord knows that I've done things with knives that would have had my old scoutmaster livid. But still. . . curious.<br><br>Thanks,<br>Andy
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#3149 - 12/18/01 12:32 AM
Re: Fixed blade carry question
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Veteran
Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 1272
Loc: Upper Mississippi River Valley...
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Yeah, I'm thinking about shoulder carry. Would be sans handgun with Scouts, of course! That means, ummm... more than one rig. Fairly easy to modify the rig I use for an early model Redhawk if I put it on the opposite side (might balance me out LoL). Would take a new rig for the slabside tools. And yet another for "knife only", which would also work fine with the SA rig. It's not my first choice, but a possible solution.<br><br>Calf carry? Perish the thought! Never entered my mind, to be honest. Getting the hilt away (down) from interfering with a pack waist band has me thinking about trialing a lowered rig, although I'm not crazy about double-strapping to my thigh. Might work OK, tho.<br><br>I'll relook conventional belt carry as you suggest, but I I think I tried that previously with less than satisfactory results. Can't hurt to check, just to be sure I haven't overlooked anything. Thanks for the ideas and tips.<br><br>Tom
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#3150 - 12/18/01 01:18 AM
Re: Fixed blade carry question
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Veteran
Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 1272
Loc: Upper Mississippi River Valley...
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Andy,<br><br>Hehehe - hey, Scouts are not my sole source of outdoors fixes! Yes, cursing under my breath while using a folded lock blade knife to peen over a busted what not is not something conducive to modeling proper behavior for a Scout before or after "Tote'n Chip" priviledges (good memory, btw). Fortunately, the knife has all the scars and I have none (from those abuses). I'd still be postholing out of the moutains (instead of skiing) if I had not fixed what was broken with what tool I had, tho - by way of example. Actually, most of those abuses were long before I'd even heard of a multi-tool (maybe Leatherman wasn't even in business yet for some of those adventures) and most of those situations that I can remember would have been handled as well or better by my Wave nowadays.<br><br>I'll demure on some other...past abuses of knives and skip over to one that I anticipate - expedient wood splitting. Shucks, I thought I was a real clever fellow years ago for figuring out how to split wood with a lockback for fire-building until I came here and found out that everyone has been doing it since time began. Never broke my knife - I was patient and used moderate blows on a Buck 112 or a Buck 110 (considered pretty hi-speed knives with the crowd I hung out with back then) - I seem to have mis-placed the 112, which I liked a little better than the 110 (it fit OK in my front pocket). It's probably around here...<br><br>On more than one occasion I have had a lock back un lock and partially fold while doing that - vibration, rebound, whatever. No blood, but not confidence building. I don't fell like blowing the $$$ to test out other locking mechanisms in that role; I've used lockbacks many times; they worked, and sometimes they folded up when I was doing it. Not something I want to have happen when I'm showing some Scouts how to do it. Not just any Scouts, tho - only those I accept into some specific survival training.<br><br>When I switched to a fixed blade knife (wifey gift) - what a difference! Much safer wood splitter. Faster, if I can quantify that. And the slightly longer blade didn't hurt, either. Safe is good...<br><br>Now that the light has (finally) dawned that we're not forbidden to use fixed blades in Scouting, I'm looking for the best combos overall for safety in carry & use plus cost & value. Since good habits work so well for me (I never lose my car keys because I ALWAYS put them the same place as soon as they clear the ignition - that kind of thing), I'm looking for what works well and safely in all situations for me where I am intentionally outdoors, including scouting.<br><br>I do not casually split wood with a knife - prefer other, more suitable tools. Have not, that I can recall, carried a hand axe out of sight of a vehicle, but I could if I didn't mind the weight or if I got a minimalist light weight hand axe. Have not used a lightweight for splitting, so do not know how well that works.<br><br>However... if I do not have my pack, I'm sure I won't have an axe, machette, SP-11, or whatever on me - too big; too much hassle. I WILL have a knife. I want the Scouts to be reasonably able to safely improvise in those circumstances, so I'm looking hard at resolving my habits to having a fixed blade on me. A folder would work, too, as I mentioned, but is not as safe IMHO.<br><br>If I can find a body-carry solution that makes me happy, I'm going to pass that on. If not... I'll figure something else out.<br><br>Does this windy explanation make sense to you? It's possible that I'm overlooking something obvious.<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Tom
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#3151 - 12/18/01 02:30 AM
Re: Fixed blade carry question
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Enthusiast
Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 280
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Tom,<br><br>Your comments (as always, it seems) make sense. <br> <br>However, I feel I should mention that I have spilt wood in the manner you have mentioned, with a Benchmade AFCK and a Cold Steel Voyager (5''). The AFCK (a liner lock) never gave me any problems. The lock never failed, the knife never closed, nothing...Alas, I lost that knife about two months ago (fell out of my pocket while I was on the jungle gym showing the children how young and athletic I still am. . .As upset as I was about having lost the knife, I was more upset about having lost it at a playground. Hopefully, a park employee found it, rather than a small child.) The Voyager always worked, but occasionally the knife would fold. I suspect that it was because my "hammer" made contact with the lock release. Something to think about.... <br><br>I now have a Spyderco Wegner. Love this knife, but would never use it to split wood, expect in a genuine emergency. For that I have a Gerber camp axe, the little one. I plan on replacing it soon with a Granfors Bruks.<br><br>Having written all of that, I'm going to reverse myself. I've read back over this and it seems as if I'm trying to sell you an expensive folder, and then maybe trying sell you an tiny (but handy) axe. The point is, it can be done with a folder (preferably a liner lock model), but is better done with an axe or maul or chain saw or explosives. <br><br>Do as you will, but don't discount leaving the fixed blades at home. And be carefull, either way.<br><br>Andy
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#3152 - 12/18/01 04:34 AM
Re: Fixed blade carry question
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Veteran
Registered: 12/10/01
Posts: 1272
Loc: Upper Mississippi River Valley...
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Andy,<br><br>That's useful info - was the CS a lock back? It's been a while, but I seem to recall that that at least some of the time the lock backs folded, it was in part because my death grip + the blow on the blade caused my hand to depress the lock release on the back of the knife. So maybe a liner lock would be fine, based on your experiences. Alas, I don't have one (well, the Wave is, I guess). I've got a couple on the way as presents, so after they get the "new" off them, I'll check it out - I'll replace if I damage the knife.<br><br>Sorry you lost your knife. That sucks. One of my boys lost one, oh, maybe 7 years ago in Colorado, and everytime we are packing through the general area of the "scene of the crime", he asks for a break to search for it. My Dad lost his favorite Lakota not far from there a couple of years afterwards (Bermuda Triangle for knives?) and was really upset about it. A year later... he got it back in an unusual twist of events, about a mile from where it was lost.<br><br>How do you like the Gerber axe? And what is a "Granfors Bruks", please? An Ontario military machette with homemade replacement handles is the height of sophistication for me, I'm afraid - sure is interesting reading here for me.<br><br>I'm interested in hearing about some of your experiences.<br><br>Tom
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#3153 - 12/18/01 02:23 PM
Re: Fixed blade carry question
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Well, if you just want a knife only shoulder rig, a spare sheath and a bootlace works wonders under a light jacket. If the sheath has a tie down hole at the bottom, just put a single loop of cord through it, that runs over the front of your shoulders and across your back- put a half twist in it to make it into an "X" and keep the load off your neck. Just make sure you have enough slack so that you can attach the belt loop to your belt. <br><br>However, since this is with scouts, improvised concealed carry techniques might be frowned on. <br><br>Another option is to carry it horizontally across the back of your belt. However, this doesn't work to well if you are sitting on a chair or bench with a back, or laying on your back and sides, or are carrying a pack on your hips/lower back. You also need to consider that it has all the potential for aggrivating back injuries that any kind of SOB carry does, if you land on it wrong.
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#3154 - 12/18/01 03:56 PM
Re: Fixed blade carry question
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Old Hand
Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 780
Loc: NE Illinois, USA (42:19:08N 08...
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Regarding lost knives, I found one in an unusual spot. I was snorkling in Wolverine Lake, a man-made lake, in Michigan (Owasippe Scout Reservervation) as a teenager.<br><br>The water is clear and I was swimming between the weed beds scaring up the bass. Then I saw a dull flash below me. There, about ten feet down in the center of a flat, sawn tree stump, was a small 1-inch pocket knife. It must have fallen from a scout's pocket while boating or canoing on the lake. It was a bit rusty, but after a cleaning it was servicable.<br><br>It's not much of a knife, but I still carry it in my gear and it reminds my of camp every time I pull it from my fanny pack.<br><br>
_________________________
Willie Vannerson McHenry, IL
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#3155 - 12/18/01 04:08 PM
Re: Fixed blade carry question
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Old Hand
Registered: 05/10/01
Posts: 780
Loc: NE Illinois, USA (42:19:08N 08...
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I may be off target, but what about sewing the shieth to the outside of the pack. You could reach over your head to draw it out. Returning it to the shieth would be a hassle, as would be times if you fell on your back. But depending on how you intend to use the knife, that might not matter.<br><br>For splitting wood and other heavy duty cutting chores, you are not likely to have you pack on anyway. An external shieth allows easy access without having to rumage through your gear. In an emergeny, your multi-tool and/or pocket knife should be easily retreived from your non-BSA <S> cargo pants pocket.<br><br>Of course, if you anticipate a a situation where you may quickly end up sans pack and want the fixed blade in ahurry, none of these ideas fit. But it would seem to work well with the Boy Scout aspect.
_________________________
Willie Vannerson McHenry, IL
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#3156 - 12/19/01 12:04 AM
Re: Fixed blade carry question
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Enthusiast
Registered: 01/03/02
Posts: 280
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Tom,<br><br>Yes, the CS is a lockback.<br><br>The Gerber axe I have is the "Back Paxe." Stupid name, nice little axe. I do mean little. Not even ten inches long, total. The handle is plastic (polymer?), which worried me at first, but aside from a little dinging, no problem. Takes a licking and keeps on...you know.<br><br>A Granfors Bruks is a hand forged axe, made in Sweden or Norway or ....well, it's made in one of those Scandanavian countries. A friend of mine has one, the "Wilderness Axe," I beleive, and it is marvelous. Expensive, though. <br><br>Both the Gerber axe and the Granfors can be viewed (and ordered) online.<br><br>Andy
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