Hi,

I've been considering adding a commando stove and Esbit fuel to my kit. I'm wondering what sort of performance I can get from it. I just tried one out on my front steps, with mixed results.

- How easy is it supposed to be to light? I tried to light it with my metal match, first without magnesium flakes, and then with, to no success. However, I seem to suck at using a metal match. It lit pretty easily with a small strike-anywhere match.

- It seemed to last about 10 minutes, with the last half fairly weak. It was able to bring a cup of water to a vigorous simmer after about 5 minutes, but it never quite made it to a good boil. Is this about right? Perhaps part of the problem is that there was a bit of a breeze, and when the flame wasn't going straight up the water wasn't boiling.

- What is it? It smelled somewhat waxy as it was burning, with some other chemically smells I didn't recognize. Is it nasty?

- Does it have a shelf life? Are the ones I got from the neighborhood surplus store probably there because they are too old?

Benton

This answers the second part of my question:

http://www.monmouth.com/~mconnick/esbit.htm

I bought a "Pocket Cooker" from Cabela's a while ago before they quit selling them. Cost about $28.00 with shipping and all.

The "Pocket Cooker" is made of heavy gage metal with a door and a perforated bottom grate and all the parts are connected together. The shape is tapered up on two sides with the door on one side, and two flat sides. If you watch how you unfold it, folding it back up should be no problem, but you had better watch the first few times to avoid frustration when trying to refold it flat. You can open the door to feed the fire or lift up your pot and put fuel (Wood, paper, combustibles.) in from the top. If you put a small spacer on the grate, you could use a variety of fuel tabs on this unit, and with the protected sides you wouldn't lose heat to drafts like you do with the Esbit stove. You can leave the door open for more secondary air or close it so all the air feeds to the underside of the grate.

It folds up flat when you are ready to go and slips into a supplied carrying case.

I called the American distributor listed on the box in order to try becoming a dealer for this little bugger, but they quit importing them due to lack of interest. They were willing to take a 250 unit order, but the price at wholesale didn't make it worth my while, and they would not tell me who manufactures it.

If any of you know who manufactures the "Pocket Cooker", please give me a heads up as I would like to sell them on the local flea market circuit.

Bountyhunter

Benton:

I have an Esbit Stove, and yes, I do like it. Do I love it? Well?? It is not a burning relationship (pun intended). Lets just say we?ve agreed to remain friends. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

To answer you questions:

Exbit stoves, or sometimes called ?Hexi-stoves? were initially made by the Esbit company in Germany for the German army. Today, they are issued by several European militaries (Germany, Netherlands, UK to name a few) to heat rations, and are made by several manufacturers.

You can get Esbit stoves on e-bay, or at Campmor, for less than 10 bucks. Fuel for them is also rather inexpensive, supposedly non-toxic (as opposed to the US Army fuel tabs), and have enough heat to just about scare a canteen cup of water to a boil. On a good day. And not too cold. And, NO wind. I have used mine many times and it does give good service. But?.

Without a windscreen, you can wait a lifetime to a rolling boil. I use an MSR wisperlite windscreen with mine, and it improves things drastically.

The Esbit is rather heavy if all you want to do is heat a cup or two of water. Today, I now use a US Army canteen cup with the cup stand/stove that fits around the cup for storage. Very compact. Toss a few Esbit fuel tabs in the bottom of the canteen cover, and you?re all set.

For larger quantities of heating and cooking, I take along a Swedish Mess kit with a Trangia alcohol stove. The mess kit has a windscreen as a part of the kit. I can boil 1.5 litres of water in about 9 minutes. Rolling boil. Plus the stove fuel is denatured alcohol, which is a darn site better for the environment if it spills. One fill-up will last about 25 minutes of burn time. Plus, in a pinch (or, if you want to impress the crowd with your rarified tastes) it will burn gin. I swear.

Yes, Esbit fuel tabs can be a bit of a trick to light. I usually set a twig alight and place it next to the base of the fuel tab. Seems to work. The fuel is a waxy base, which explains the ?waxy? issue. I have no idea about the shelf life of the fuel. You see, I keep mine in a trunk. (Sorry. I couldn?t resist that one.) <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Recommendation? Not an EDC carry or PSK carry, but it does have its uses. It is more flexible than the canteen cup stove/stand when using other pots/pans. Operationally, it is simplicity itself. Pop open stove. Pop open fuel tab. Cook. You can hold 4 fuel tabs inside in safety. (5 if you?re REALLY good). As long as you take a windscreen, for the money it is a good buy.

Hope this helps.

?..CLIFF

The army surplus store in my neighborhood has the esbit stove for like $6.50 with 3 fuel tabs, and a 6-pack box of fuel for $1.75 that fits inside it.

Benton:

Make sure the Esbit tabs you get are the the individaully wrapped variety. I have seen some of the open box kind, and..... I'm not too trusting on their effectiveness.

.....CLIFF

They were wrapped in 3 packs. Even then it's a tight fit, with one being upside down so the foil backing didn't interfere with each other. If I open one strip and take one out, will the others oxidize or otherwise deteriorate in air? I noticed that they were sort of a yellowish color, whereas the 3 that came with the kit are white.

Get the ones in the individually wrapped pop-out wrappers(they look like REALLY big cold pill containers, with the foil on the back). I have always wondered if they will deteriorate. You reporting about the color change and the difficulty lighting seems to confirm that they do.

.....CLIFF

I only experimented with one of the white ones that came with the kit. They were individually wrapped, in such a way that it wouldn't fit well into the stove. They lit fine with a match. I'll try one of the yellowed ones, as soon as my boss stops bothering me to get some work done. I kind of wanted to keep them together as a package, because that would seem to be the nicest way to pack it. It's just $1.75, I can get more. But yah, the yellowing is suspicious, and you have to be wary of things you get at a surplus store.

Here are some simple lightweight metolhds to make a windscreen. In fact the first one is a stove and windscreen combined.

stove/windscreen combo

modified esbit (you have to scroll down to the stoves section then click on modified esbit)

I've used esbit stoves and fuel for years. During Terrill Hoffman's "Practice What You Preach III" this year, I experimented with alternative fuels for the esbit stove. I used esbit, USGI hexamine and trioxane, and Coghlan's brand fuel tabs. The esbit fuel typically required two tabs to boil water for 5+ minutes. The other fuels took three or more tabs to boil water for the same or similar time frames. A windscreen of some type is a must.

I'll be heading south tomorrow afternoon, to the VA tidewaters region. An Esbit stove and fuel will be along for the ride ...

M

FWIW, I've had good luck with the Nuwick/Eco stove.



Link

It's must take weeks to boil water on two little candle flames.... <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

In my experience the ESBIT tablet has an extreemly long shelf life and I think that if you investigate , you will find that it is the plastic the tablets are wrapped in that changes colour, and NOT the tablet itself.

hey goatrider : by the term "commando stove " are you talking about the british army issue "hexy stove" it kinda looks like the esbit stove but way larger and made of lighter gage metal... or is it something t-totaly different,something i do'nt know about???? vince g. 11b inf...

I think it's the regular sized esbit. It even says "Esbit" on it. Here, I'll take a pic-



The two white tabs on the left came with the stove, the 2 strips of 3 came in the red box labeled $1.50. The box fits in the folded stove. I made a little X out of steel, I've heard that you get better results that way.

Now that you mention it, it looks like the plastic is yellow, and maybe not the tabs. It's only $1.50, I should give it a try.

Here, in France, aside the Esbit stove, we can find this "re-heating set" :



This "made in France" product contains :
- 6 solid fuel tablets ("no alcool, no petroleum, non toxic")
- 1 little box of regular safety matches (wood)
- 1 foldable piece of cardbord, to hold the hot meal metal box/carton (?)
- 1 flat pre-cut rectangle of metal (steel ?) ; has to be folded to form a support for your pan (like an Esbit stove)

It can be re-flattened after use. And re-used a few times.

A note on the side of the box explains :
"can be used to heat 6 x 400g of food or to bring a 1/2 litre of water from 20°C to 70°C"

Some of you may also be interested in a smaller "wing stove" for esbit tabs. http://www.thru-hiker.com/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=EB101



I'm planning on getting one of these soon. I would keep materials for an improvised windscreen on hand for use with it.

Goatrider:

Alright, I'll bite. What's the X for??

You put the esbit tab on top of it, then air can get under it for better burning. I haven't tried it yet, but it makes sense. Worth a try definitely.

You would be suprised... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



Seriously, it's not too bad with mulitple wicks. About 14 minutes.

Even less with a can of EcoFuel or Sterno. <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

is this the pocket cooker you are looking for?

pocket cooker link

Those who have been on this forum for a long time know I've done a LOT of experimenting with stoves, etc.

Looks like all the essential information has been covered in the other posts on this thread. It's worth repeating that Esbit is NOT Hexamine, which is very toxic, has toxic fumes and residue, DOES deteriorate dramatically with age, and should never be used indoors (if anywhere).

A year or so ago during Isobel I ended up making a hobo stove out of a coffee can to use Sterno to boil water when the power went out. That was so ineffective that I've since bought 3 of the Esbit stoves, one of which lives in a kitchen drawer. There's this awkward period after the lights go out, and you have no idea how long it's going to be, and don't know if it's worth breaking out the heavier gear (I have a kerosene (Alpaca) cookstove that works like a space heater and is usable indoors). If the power goes out in the evening or at night, the awkward period probably includes the morning coffee/tea time... and you might even be going to work that day, power or no, which also argues against taking the time to break out "serious" gear. The Esbit works very well for this in-between stage, when you're not yet committed to the long haul. I've also sent them to family members for blackout use.

Backpacking and hiking I usually carry one of the little Pepsi-can stoves these days- can't beat it for weight- but I do keep Esbits in various kits. Can't beat the Esbits for convenience.

I think you'd be surprised at the shelf life. As kids we used to use these things to power model steam engines, and I never remember any deteriorating, even when I used them 10 years later. I use them occasionallly now to power model Stirling engines for demo purposes. Having something that's (relatively) safe to use indoors can be a real advantage.

They are, however, as you noted, very sensitive to even a slight breeze. It's well worthwhile to take the effort to shield the stove well.

Trusbx:

That is the pocket cooker I purchased from Cabela's quite a while ago. Cabela's no longer sells them.

I has found the site you show a long time ago, but they are retailers, and I am looking to determine the manufacturer. If you notice, it says "not available" on that site.

It is a marvel of engineering, and if I could find the manufacturer I would attempt to buy a couple hundred for resale at "flea" markets in the Wisconsin area.

I have gone through Global Sources, Alibaba, Thomas register, and direct searchs using the "Pocket Cooker" name and have come up with some retailers, but no one that knows the actual manufacturer, only the name of their distributors. As I said before, I tried the distributor route and found the prices too high for reselling in the venue that I would sell.

I understand Singapore is a very Capitolistic city with loads of industry and industry representatives. Is there any chance you could find out who manufacturers this stove?

Thanks for any help you can throw my way.

Bountyhunter

I found out this summer that a 20 YO fuel tab will burn just exactly long enough to cook a package of Ramen noodles. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
gino

this is from a poster on plainsman's



Don't know how good the lead is though.....

Trusbx:

I have also found that thread and followed it up. The company is a retailer, and they do not know who the manufacturer is.

Thanks for the lead, but I think I have pretty well exhausted the webs ability to track down the manufacturer.

I was hoping you might know some high powered contacts in Singapore that could shed some light on who actually makes these things, and where.

With my selling ability in some areas (I am lousy at selling new cars, but excel in used cars as well as things I believe in.) I think I could do quite well on the flea market circuit with those stoves.

Thanks!

Bountyhunter

Is Hexamine the military heating tabs???
<img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />
As soon as I got some, I lit up some in the kitchen to test them
<img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />
DId I poisen myself, my friend, my friend's wife, and my friend's kids? <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Esbit is hexamine from everything I have researched. Please provide links to evidence stating the opposite.

Hmm, I couldn't find anything that says it IS hexamine, but a lot of pages seem to consider them interchangable. In my search, I found the Esbit home page:

http://www.esbit.net/esbit.start.en.php

I also found unauthoritative pages that said it was harmless, and others that said it was highly toxic. Although, the one that said it was toxic was talking about hexamine, the ones that said it was safe were talking about Esbit. So if they are the same thing, someone's got some 'splaining to do. They use Esbit to power children's model steam engines, so it couldn't be too bad! The Esbit site doesn't say either way.

EDIT: I found the site for the US importer:

http://www.mpioutdoors.com/esbit.htm

This page uses the phrase "non-toxic formula - - it is completely harmless to our environment."

EDIT2: AHA! This site says Esbit is "Non-toxic"... "Much better than Triox or hexamine":

http://www.escape-co.com/stoves_and_fuel.htm

Thanks- I've had a lousy few days (just saw my truck leave on a flatbed), almost no sleep last night, and a very, very long day at work, and, not complaining, but I was in no mood for a research project tonight. I appreciate your looking into it.

Esbit tablets have been around since WWII, and probably the primary use for decades now, at least in the US, is for powering model steam engines (or Stirling engines, in my case). In that context Esbit has made a point of assuring parents that they were non-toxic for a very long time. Clearly they have some stake in that claim.

One more: "Esbit tablets, which have a 'trade secret' formula but are probably the same as the common Hexamine tablets..."

from this page:
http://www.bushwalking.org.au/FAQ/FAQ_Efficiency.htm

I think you're refering to Trioxane. It is also toxic. The package warns it is "harmful if swallowed" and "to avoid contamination of food by loose powder. Cleanse hands after handling."

I used some last night in an experiment in my kitchen. I put my Esbit stove on top of my real stove and turned the fan on. That should take care of most of the toxicity issues. Also, I think that as long as you don't breath the fumes straight from the flame or use this stuff in a tent it won't be too bad.


Robert

This link was posted by a chemist who said he did gas chromatography on several solid fuel tablets to determine their composition.

http://66.39.74.171/cgi-bin/archives/2000/geartalk-20/config.pl?read=8233

Also, my esbit box has a caution on it stating
CAUTION: Harmful
If swallowed call doctor.
Contains methenamine.
Keep out of reach of children.

The chemical name for methenamine is HEXAMETHYLENETETRAMINE (HEXAMINE)

An interesting site on esbits, solid fuel stoves and alcohol stoves.

Esbit composition and solid fuel stoves


Esbit and other solid fuels


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hexamethylenetetramine: aka - Hexamine, Hexy, Hexi, Hexie, Methenamine (Esbit), Hexamethylenetetramine, 3,5,7- Tetraazaadamantane, Ammonioformaldehyde,
Aceto HMT, Aminoform, Ammoform, Cystamin, Cystogen, Esametilentetramina (Italian), Formamine, Formin, Hexaform, Hexamethylenamine, Urotropin, Hexamethyleneamine, Hexamethylenetetraamine, Hexamethylentetramin (German), Hexamethylentetramine, Hexilmethylenamine, HMT, Methamin, Resotropin, Uritone, Urotropine, Esametilentetramina (Italian), 1,3,5,7-Tetraazatricyclo[3.3.1.1(3,7)]decane and C6H12N4.



NOTE: Hexamethylenetetramine releases formaldehyde, ammonia, carbon oxides, hydrogen cyanide and nitrogen oxides when burned. It is also used as a urinary tract infection antiseptic and in explosives.

.

Interesting site.

Ok, I stand corrected- I was clearly thinking of trioxane and not hexamine. I had a LOT of surplus trioxane tabs stored at one point, and they had deteriorated (and disintigrated) into nasty stuff after 15 years or so... and, reading the various warnings, I disposed of them and the stove I had used them in, and resolved not to do that again.

What I had matches the photos of US miltary trioxane tabs on the site, not the photos of US military hexamine.

The evidence seems compelling that Esbits are at least largely hexamine. I've never used (or, for that matter, even seen) any of the other brands of Hexamine listed- but I know that Mamod is a big name in the steam-model circles, and I find it interesting that the box describes the tablets as "waxed". That would explain the surface texture, which leads many to believe that the tablets are wax-based. I wonder if it also explains thier long shelf life?

I have on 2 occasions tried cooking (using an Esbit stove and fuel) the contents of the little microwaveable Kraft macaroni and cheese cups by dumping the contents into a "Sierra" cup, then covering the top of the cup rather loosely with aluminum foil to help contain the heat. On both occasions, the mac and cheese took on a very unpleasant taste and smell, and I felt somewhat ill after consuming the food. Yes, it took me twice to figure out that something was wrong with this method <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />.