Hey, I was just wondering if anyone had any advice on what is appropriate when storing a fire extinguisher in your car. I live in Ontario and we have swinging extreams in weather, heat waves in the summmer (not this one though) and a deep winter that can go -30 (in out funny metric talk). Before storing one in my car I was wondering if anyone had an experiance on tempature extreams with extinguishers or any probmlems you know of when keeping an extinguisher in your car. Thanks for any help.

Hi,

There's nothing wrong with the temperature extremes. They are fire extinguishers anyway, which means the hottest weather available. They are very over engineered. The sub zero part is also irrelevant, because most of the materials used (plastic, metal) will not be brittle till ~50 (I love to answer metric questions... <img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> ). Maybe the seal would suffer.

You should be aware to keep the -generally- yearly inspection dates.

The other thing to consider is the place and fixation of the unit. Many cars have factory built in points under the front seats, and these can acccept the optional cradle. (It will cost you a fortune, but only the genuine set will provide proper collision protection.) If you dont't have the possibility to place the extinguisher here, then it should be in the trunk. In case of minivans, SUVs, wagons, etc. where the passanger compartment is not physically divided from the trunk, the unit must be secured with very strong quick release latches, or the like. (Never forget, that a fire extinguisher is technically the biggest full metal jacket bullet, if it rides through the cabin.)

Best,

Zerge

Nic:
Hello, I would like to expand on what Zerge replied with. The most common type of Fire Extinguisher people place in their cars (pickups and SUV?s) is a 2 ? pound (about 1.14 Kg) Multipurpose ABC Dry Chemical extinguisher. You can purchase these style extinguisher in most hardware stores and auto-parts stores, then you can ?mount? one in your car. As pointed out a loose extinguisher can become a projectile in an auto accident. You should carefully evaluate what type of need you have in the house and in the car. Once you have that done you may purchase an extinguisher.

Most extinguishers are rated according to the National Fire Protection Association (NFPA) guidelines and also the Underwriters Laboratory (UL) rating system. These are the suggested ?minimum? standard for each extinguisher. These companies place a rating for temperatures between ?65?F to +120?F (- 54?C to +50?C) provided you have an aluminum canister. I am not aware of temp ratings for the plastic containers. Therefore, I do not recommend the plastic ones.

Some extinguisher basics

Learn how to use one, use the PASS method, that is Pull the pin, aim the extinguisher, squeeze the trigger and sweep from side to side at the base. Never try to blanket the fire with the extinguisher. You may find you only ?blow? the fire vs. fighting it.
Teach your family how to use one. General peace of mind. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Extinguishers will vary in discharge rates from as little as 10 seconds to about 2 minutes. Beyond this and you will need to call the fire department.
Before you attempt to fight the fire (home, or auto) make sure everyone inside is safe.
Check them monthly, make sure the nozzle is clean and free of dirt, grime and oils.
Check the gauge, make sure it is still showing the extinguisher is charged and the gauge is not broken.
If ABC dry chemical, shake the canister you should feel a ?fluid? slide motion. A more solid thump and the extinguishing agent has solidified (remember it is a powder) and you will need it serviced.
Have yearly inspections by a professional. This can be costly, but well worth it. The professional will check seals, powder, clean and hydrotest to make sure the extinguisher is going to function when discharged.
Make sure you purchase a metal vs. plastic canister. Plastics cannot be hydrotested and will need full replacement every 12 years.

I keep one in my pickup at all times and have never had any temperature related problems.

Take care,

Stargazer The one over there wearing a soaking wet overcoat (poncho), carrying a bulging briefcase (BOB) very tired and battered looking, trying very hard to make sense out of the whole ordeal. Attempting to make the only real connection that matters...The quickest route out of the mess <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

ASAP = Always Suspicious, Always Prepared

Why would you want to store a fire extinguisher in your car? Your house I understand, but wouldn't nearly any fire be in a a location inaccessible to a passenger? Also, wouldn't that distract you from your main goal-- escaping the vehicle?

i suppose you'd want it to help protect a trapped friend or family member. What do the EMT's think? And what kind of extinguisher has a realistic chance of working?

I have had to use fire extinguishers on two seperate occasions. Both fires were in automobiles (one was an auto in a closed garage, saw the flames through the window). Used my house fire extinguisher on one. Used my car extinguisher on the other.

Keep it in an accessible, yet secure location. Once everyone is clear of the auto, use it as effectively as possible. Car fires are generally not super fast at spreading (from my limited experience) which buys you some time. The other obvious answer is to support other people who don't carry extinguishers in their car

Good point. After the fact, I also realized that there may be fires near your car (ie cooking out, roadside, etc) that an extinguisher would be very useful in putting out.

I'm always learning. I've never met acceptable consumer grade plastic container units. Only the hairspray-like junk (without any legal tests), and some high-tech ones, but nothing between.

I'd like to add some more on the use of the extinguisher. Fire usually starts in the engine compartment for various reasons (leave alone some misdesigned rear fuel tanks). After you have secured everyone in a safe distance, do NOT open wide the bonnet, because you will feed the flames with fresh air (like in a chimney). Try to keep a small opening and use short bursts. It goes of course only for small, starting fires. In case you see lively, armlength flames around, just flee. Nothing is more precious, than your life.

We keep fire extingishers in all our vehicles. they are designed to withstand the temperature swings you'd expect in a vehicle.
the main problem i've seen is where the extinguisher is old and not charged when needed.

also...if your engine catches fire, DON'T open the hood, spray the extinguisher in through the front grill of possible. Most car fires are electrical in origin and in the cabin though.

Hmm... <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Ok, I don't know the fire origins over there...

OK, I don't know how many other active firemen are on this list, please chime in. Here's what I know about vehicle fires:

Here's some facts about car fires:
From FEMA: http://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/tfrs/v2i4-508.pdf

FINDINGS
- One in every four fire department responses is to a vehicle
fire. This does not include the tens of thousands of
responses to vehicle accident sites.
- Mechanical or design problems are the leading cause of
vehicle fires.
- Electrical wiring and fuel are the leading forms of material
ignited in vehicle fires.
- Fires following a collision are the leading cause of vehicle
deaths.
- Mechanical and design failures are the leading cause of
vehicle injuries, many of which were due to the victim’s
attempt to control the fire.

This last item is interesting, as it would seem that having an extinguisher would increase your propensity to be injured due to a lack of understanding of when to back off. Like everythign else on this list, always remember that equipped is NOT the same as prepared.

Excellent advice, thanks all around. Just to be clear, the main purpose of keeping an extinguisher in my car is to put out small incidental fires rather than putting out one that has started in the engine of my car or whatnot (I know when to back off <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />). More of a in case of emergancy situation where someone has caught fire for whatever reason or the small fires that can ocur when BBQing or tinkering with junkers.

I'm not a fireman, and I'm not in the US either. Most of these things I've learned from friends (firemen, policemen, doctors, and others also), and family (my father, as a doctor, was doing EMT service, and my sister is presently out there in an ambulance).

As I know, most -cumulative- vehicle fires started in the engine compartment. Most people are curious about the fumes under the bonnet, even after a smaller crash. And opening the bonnet for checking the case they are simply instantly burned by the freshly fed flames.

That's even more easier. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> You should put a fire retardant blanket somewhere (at least one square metre), and maybe some smaller sized Waterjel. This set is much better for "personal" fires, than hunting someone with an extinguisher. (Just keep the extinguisher as well.)

I've got one in my car. In the back seat. Buckled up, too, like a regular passenger. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have learned to carry two fire extinguishers in my car after a recent incident in the underpass at the LAX airport. There was a van stopped in the tunnel with the hood up and smoke coming from it. No sirens to be heard, so I pulled up and took my 5 pound dry chemical extinguisher from the trunk of my car and made quick work of the fire.
Upon going to get it recharged I was told it was out of the hydro test date and it could not be refilled without being hydro'd. So, I shelled out the money for a new replacement. I think the hydro is good for 12 years.
The act of kindness cost me about $50, but I am happy I did it.
I also bought a $10, 2 1/2 pound disposable extinguisher that I will use first if called upon again. Cheaper than using the 5 lb unit, as long as it will do the job.

Also, I suggest that you purchase one with a hose, it offers much more versatility than a straight nozzle type unit. Whatever you buy, secure it in your vehicle, as it can become a nasty rocket in an accident.

Martin noted:
>Fires following a collision are the leading cause of vehicle
deaths

Wow, that's illuminating to me. I would have thought that most vehicle deaths would be from trauma. Another great addition to the group's knowledge by Martin! Thanks!

" Fires following a collision are the leading cause of vehicle
deaths."

I don't know where they got those stats. I was a highway cop for 30 years, been to more fatal collisions than I care to remember, and only four or five of those involved fires. Most of the dead folks I got to pick up were ejected from an overturning vehcle because they were not wearing seatbelts. Right behind those were those in head-on or high speed broadside collisons. Fire is waaayyyy down on the list...

If you don't keep a fire extinguisher in your car, you should. Its actually mandatory in some European countries. I was lucky enough to put my hands on a OE mount for my car that places the extinuisher right under the front of the drivers seat (reachable while belted in the seat).

A family member of mine witnessed a bus roll-over on an interstate in PA several weeks ago. The engine compartment caught fire and proceeded toward the passenger compartment. He was able to keep the flames at bay with a 5 lb. ABC while two other good samaritans pulled the injured driver to safety. Without the extinguisher, the driver would not be around today.

Several good points have been made:

(1) Mount the extinguisher with metal (not plastic) hardware. It could become a ballistic missle in the passenger compartment. You could put it in the trunk, but accessibility is important.

(2) Get a good quality extinguisher - I stay away from plastic hardware like you find at the local Wal-Mart. Pay a little more for professional grade equipment from an authorized dealer (Amerex and Badger) and you won't find the pressure has leaked out and its useless.

(3) Inspect the extinuisher on a regular basis. Make sure the pressure to spec.

(4) The extinguishing agent in an ABC extiguisher is caustic to plastic, vinyl, and leather. If you do use one inside a vehicle, clean up the powder as quickly as possible. If you are concerned about damage, you may want to consider a CO2 or halotron extinguisher. If you do, keep in mind that extinuishing agent is not as effective as the ABC powder.

Best wishes.

Craig.

I'm with old bald guy(and I also fit that profile).I'm a fireman for a a fair sized city,and while car fires are common,I remember one death,and that was a bum living in a van.Seen quite a few deaths from accidents,none from fires afterward myself.

But most of our car fires are arson,And one in four responses? That sounds way off.Most depts run 40-80 percent ems.If you remove ems it still doesn't sound right.My city runs over 30,000 runs a year,we don't have 7,500 cars fires...My company runs 3,000 plus a year and we don't have 750 car fires more like 50.

Personally,I don't carry one,in fact I don't know anyone who does.I do leave my cars parked outside of the garage though,because I don't care if my car burns,but believe me you don't want it to happen inside your garage.

ABC dry chemical extinguishers are also caustic to aluminum, so if you put out an engine fire make sure to clean it off quickly. I've only put out a couple of engine fires, but without the extinguisher someone else would have had a bad day.

Craig, i thought that CO2 was less effective than dry chemical but halon 1211 is much more effective than dry chemical extinguishers on electrical and fuel fires.

What would be a good brand/source for a quality extinguisher suited to vehicular use?

I don't think Halon is allowed any longer due to environmental issues.

I am in the Air Force and we still have Halon extinguishers for use on aircraft. However, we can not use those extinguishers in training, and if we do use one for real it has to be reported to the EPA.

Robert

Interesting input. I have a few 5 pound units for my computer room; good fire fighting capability and no clean up as far as I know. I have not used one as of yet.
I do know that I will not be able to get them refilled.

Having to report your usage to the EPA is interresting. I have heard the fire supression characteristics of Halon are top notch. Too bad it is not friendly to the environment.

You may want to consider looking into Around The Campfire for the subject Mayhem Management.
Even with a good vehicular fire extinguisher, the effort to battle a vehicle fire is VERY dangerous, in many ways.
Probably worth reading, as it might make you consider using a fire extingusher on a vehicle fire in a very different manner.

The manufacture of halon in the US was banned many years ago but the existing stockpiles are still allowed to be used. Which means that it is getting more expensive, not nonexistent, what is amazing is that FE36 the currently environmentally friendly halon 1211 replacement still cost about three times as much as halon that has not been manufactured in over a decade.

I put out a car fire in a garage. Right under the sleeping occupants of the bedroom over the garage. Don't want to know what would have happened if I did not take the garbage out that night. I tried to get the county to change its fire detector requirements and require one in the garage linked to the ones in the house. Lets see, cars, gas, lawn mowers, camp stoves, oil...........

Bill

RE Fire in the garage:
That's why I like the way my house is setup - seperate garage about 10 steps or so from the back door of the house. Plus here in NYC all "New build" garages (since the 60s I think - but a long time anyway) have to be either brick, block, or concrete construction - aka TRUE fire resistant. If seen cars burn in them - you usually loose the door, the roof, and anything IN the garage, but even in apartment houses (where there are multiple garages) you usually don't loose the next garage

(Note for folks who don't know NYC - a LOT of NYC is single family houses on 40-60x100-120 lots (approx), although 60x120s are fairly rare)

Interesting point.
I am not a professional plumber, but I know my way around mapp gas, solder and a torch.
I have wondered if it would be worth the peace of mind to put a few sprinker heads in the garage as a precaution. I am sure it would not meet "code" but it just could prevent a fire from spreading. Even if done with copper tubing as opposed to galvanized pipe, it would help. Water damage could be great, but considering the consequences, it might be worth it.
Any thoughts?

While I am not a fire suppression engineer, nor do I play one on TV, although there was this little acting troupe I was in, did a lumberjack skit...oh wait, wrong forum. I have the National Fire Protection Association (governing body for this stuff) standards for water suppression. I could look up the basic requirements. It would need to be a wet pipe system (always filled with water) unless you wanted to install the fire pump. I don't know how readily available the nozzle components are, but the rest is just piping, generally threaded, galvanized pipe. The only issue I see is that you would probably want to/have to remove it if you sold your house. These systems also take alot of water. You may want to hook up 3-4 sprinklers on short hoses and see what your water pressure can accomplish in terms of volume.

Might be worth looking into. I was not thinking of doing a massive job that met all required standards for a public building, more along the lines of running some 3/4" copper and adding 3-4 sprinkler heads with perhaps one over my gun safe. If it is a run of pipe with no other taps for hose, whatever, it would probably provide a decent degree of protection that might supress a fire or limit its effect. I believe it would be easy enough to put a pressure detector on the line to sound some kind of an alarm when the water started to flow.
A home bulit "safety system" that could be worthwhile that I would not rely on 100%.

This site has good information on halon

http://www.h3r.com/

Forget portable fire extinguishers to put out fires in your OWN car (you'll still need them to help someone else). Take a look at these (quick google search "vehicle fire suppression"):

Crown Victoria Police Interceptor Fire Suppression

Levitt-Safety Custom Fire Suppression

Amerex Custom Fire Suppression

Deist Safety On Board Fire Suppression

Fire Fox

Safecraft Vehicle Fire Suppression Systems

Note: Several webpages indicate HALON is dangerous, and should not be used in confined areas where someone may breath it in.

On the topic of keeping an extinguisher in your vehicle, when I was involved in the sport up to world rally standard back in the 70s, it was compulsory under race and rally regulations to carry such an item. We always had a powder extinguisher with steel holder bolted to the floor by the navigator's seat in rally cars. You failed scrutineering if you didn't have one. Along with a big red battery/ignition isolation switch for use if and when the car rolled.
No doubt the Group One world rally cars today have even more sophisticated fire retard systems. And for good reason..

Looks like it is safe:

"It is a common misconception that halon "removes oxygen from given space." This is what C02 does, not halon. According to the Halon Alternative Research Corporation (www.harc.org): "Halons are low-toxicity, chemically stable compounds that have been used for fire and explosion protection throughout this century. Today, Halon 1211 (a liquid streaming agent) is used mainly in hand-held fire extinguishers and Halon 1301 (a gaseous agent) is used mainly in total flooding systems. These halons have proven to be extremely effective fire suppressants, which are clean (leave no residue) and remarkably safe for human exposure. Three things must come together at the same time to start a fire. The first ingredient is fuel (anything that can burn), the second is oxygen (normal breathing air is ample) and the last is an ignition source (high heat can cause a fire even without a spark or open flame). Traditionally, to stop a fire you need to remove one side of the triangle - the ignition, the fuel or the oxygen. Halon adds a fourth dimension to fire fighting - breaking the chain reaction. It stops the fuel, the ignition and the oxygen from dancing together by chemically reacting with them. Many people believe that halon displaces the air out of the area it is dispensed in. Wrong! Even for the toughest hazards, less than an 8% concentration by volume is required. There is still plenty of air to use in the evacuation process."


The EPA recognizes that that halon remains the most effective extinguishing agent available, and it continues to allow its use despite its ozone depleting potential. All halon available now is recycled, so it is not an environmentally irresponsible choice. In addition, due to its effectiveness and relatively low toxicity, the FAA also continues to require halon extinguishers for use on commercial aircraft.

Finally, there are no federal or state regulations prohibiting the buying, selling or use of halon extinguishers."

Also, these guys sell them as well.

http://www.performanceproducts.com/
http://www.madvet.com/shop?frame=1.6272