I'm not always sure I agree with ya 100% bounty, but yeah, ya got a good point there, buddy.

Troy

While it might be a step in the right direction, what does a retired law officer have on an N.R.A. certified Instructor or a certified range officer retired (or otherwise) from the military? If the gate's going to be opened (we can only hope) then it should be opened to anybody who can pass a reasonable psych/background check, don't you agree?

Troy

I want to start by apologizing by not doing my research before posting. The bill isn't for retired LEO, but for off-duty LEO. I think the reason is because there is a fear that an off-duty officer will be attacked by a criminal he/she put away in the past. This may not be ideal, I just think it's a step forward.

I did also find this link. http://www.nationalccw.com This is a bill that would give CCW reciprocity in all 50 states.

Robert

Wildcard163:

Did you know that in Yugoslavia before Tito's death as well as in other PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. countries those who were approved for carrying sidearms could carry them anywhere including Government buildings.

Granted the restrictions to obtain carry permits were tough, and party affiliation mattered, but once approved, you could be packing heat even while argueing with an elected official in a Government facility.

You try that in the USA, and the sales of Pepto Bismol would go through the roof for all the legislators that would poop their pants.

Bountyhunter

Norad45:

I don't think Timothy McVeigh was anything more than an angry white American citizen who lost a lot of his faith because of the Waco atrocity.

I don't believe T.M. had a middle-eastern connection, but I do believe he was conned into believing his action was sanctioned by what he considered "right thinking" government people in the USA.

I believe he was told the children in the day care center were going to be out of harms way when he set off the bomb, and after the fact, I believe he was told it was an unfortunate logistics screwup. Being a "good Soldier", I think he accepted the outcome as "collateral damage" that happens in many military operations. I think he was told that he had killed all the supervisors and planners of the Waco fiasco and the "wrong thinkers" in the Government were covering up the efficiency of his actions. I think he would have broke down and given up his superiors if he had figured out how he had been munipulated. I believe he thought his death was going to be faked.

I believe our spy satillites picked up his explosive experiments before the Oklahoma bombing and I cannot understand why the authorities didn't act when the testing was going on, unless there were people "on the inside" who wanted him to go on. Timothy McViegh was and is a murderer, a terrorist, a fool, and a hormone driven young man who was used by older more intelligent men to commit his act.

A passport and having your butt born in the USA do not make you a good person, a loyal citizen, or a "never to be" terrorist. American history is replete with citizens who were and some who still are a detriment to this country.

We are now where Germany was once and the government is attempting to restrict its citizens under the guise of terrorist control. Stop and think how being "accidently" put on a "no fly" list can affect business ventures, free speech, social activism, and physical health if you are not allowed to fly. I believe the placement of Senator Ted Kennedys name on the "no fly" list was done intentionally for the purpose of threatening the masses who would complain about the abuses of power going on right now. It seems to work on you because you really believe it is for the nations good, and it is not.

Everyone ought to carry a blade on every airline the world over, and the airlines should have "loaner blades" available for those that forget or do not usually carry one. One of my favorite fantasies of a hijacking gone bad is to have a normal sized hijacker attempt to hijack a plane full of little people who can't reach higher than his belt line with their knives. Instant "Gender Bender" without having to go to Sweden for the operation.

Bountyhunter <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I agree 100% with NORAD.

PC nonsense is gonna get us killed.

If you can't tell the difference between one nutcase who can kill 2 -3 people because his daddy treated him badly, and a group who detests us because we are NOT Islamic, you have bigger problems than can be resolved here.

Yes, there will always be freelancers, but so far ... the terrorists we have seen are all middle-eastern men who want to kill as many of us as possible.

BTW - I'm Buddhist. They hate anyone who is not Mohamedan.

Not "dislike". Not "disagree with". HATE. Get it?

I'm not sure what you think I said, except that what you think I said bears no resemblance to what I said, so allow me to rephrase my post.

>>In other words, [terrorists'] ideas are so worthless and bereft of the power to influence others that they have to resort to mass murder to get attention?

That's not what I said.

>>Is that supposed to make us feel guilty?

No, that's not what I said either.

>>I'm sorry, but the Al-Queda types can either express themselves the way the rest of us do (i.e.: peacefully and democratically) or they can be exterminated.

Sometimes terrorists' demands are rejected because they are dealing with a totalitarian government that is completely intransigent. (e.g. the French Resistance dealing with the Nazi occupation.) Sometimes they're rejected because they're completely unacceptable or unrealistic. Sometimes the reason falls somewhere in the middle. (The Irish PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. Army's demands that Northern Ireland be returned to Ireland, despite the fact that 2/3 of the population wished to remain with Great Britain, were unreasonable, IMO; otoh, the problem was probably greatly exacerbated by the government's refusal to address the discrimination against Catholic citizens by the Protestant majority.)

Whatever. The point I was trying to make is that, by cracking down on the freedoms that your forebears fought and died for, in the name of "security", the government is creating the very conditions that make people turn to terrorism and extremism.

Are the government measures going to swell the ranks of Al Qaeda? Probably not. (Although it does make their job a lot easier; why bother planting a bomb, when you can shut down a major freeway for 17 hours by picking up the phone and reporting a conversation you "overheard" in a restaurant?)

But will it swell the ranks of PHRASECENSOREDPOSTERSHOULDKNOWBETTER. militia groups, whose members already think the government has too much power? I suspect it will. Will it result in a resurgence of "Black Power" terrorism, or race riots? It's not that far-fetched, IMO.

Whether you "approve" of Al Qaeda, the IRA, white supremacy groups, or any other terrorist organisation is really not the issue. If you believe that their claims are totally unjustified (or if they're so far gone in their hatred that they don't even have any claims), then the only possible response is to fight them, and accept that there will be casualties on both sides along the way. But you should always bear in mind that the terrorists' main objective is to destroy your way of life; if your government is willing to do that for them, then they can kick back and relax and have a good laugh at your expense.

Maybe there's hope yet, but what about the states with NO CCW (Illinois for one)?

So be it, bounty, maybe the flip-floppers and double talkers would get out of the business (we could only hope). <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
I once heard a stand-up comic (I don't remember who) do a routine on the practicallity of a national dueling day, at the time, it was funny, but the more I think of it, the more it makes sense. The gist was that if you were at odds with someone, divorce lawyer, quack doctor, jerk boss, whoever, one day a year you could challenge them to a duel without breaking the law. Just think of the possibilities. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Troy

The bill is supposed to make all states give reciprocity to all other states. Then a CCW permit would be similar to a driver's licence, one is recognized in all other states. However, I'm sure there will be lots of problems with law-abiding citizens being arrested for carrying a concealed weapon in a state without it's own CCW law, but while following the national CCW law. There are a lot of kinks that will have to be worked out for this to work, but it's a step in the right direction. Do a search on "national CCW law" and you will find lots of forums and other info on this.

Robert