Hi,

I'm working on the immediate use fire making kit for my bug out bag.

If you could only choose one, which would you include in your BOB for immediate fire making, a Lighter or 20 Waterproof/Windproof Matchs?

Space wise I think a lighter would make more sense, you can start a lot more fires with it. If it is a flint wheel type you can even use it for starting fires after the butane/lighter fluid is gone. However, a lighter would need to be replaced often, matches will stay good for longer. My personal favorite is the Perminant match, it can use many different types of fuel like a Zippo, yet doesn't run out as easily because the fuel is sealed. Plus it has a flint that will throw more sparks.

personally, I have never had any luck with waterproof matches. They are also strike proof, and if I can get them to light, they tend to sputter out within a minute.

I have a lighter, and candle stubs. (and a magnisium block on my keychain...)

Rena

Firemaking is an essential capability with relatively inexpensive and lightweight tools. To have only one option is "pennywise and pound foolish." A 250 count box of strike anywhere matches is @ $1.00. A disposable lighter again is @ $1.00. There are other options with many advantages. But for a few dollars you have a supply the envy of those with nothing.

True.

This is just an exercise in finding the pros and cons of both the lighter and matches compared to each other. For instance, a lighter can be used one handed, however a match must be used with two hands.

Here are some others.

LIGHTER PROS
Can be used one handed
Can hold a flame much longer than a single match
Can create a spark even after the fuel has been spent (as stated earlier)

LIGHTER CONS
Fuel can leak
Fuel will eventually run out

MATCH PROS
Waterproof container can be used for other purposes once the matches have been used.

MATCH CONS
Must be used with both hands
Requires two seperate items to use. Match and Striker Surface
Each match can only be used once
Requires a waterproof container

This thread was intended to find other pros and cons for each firestarter.

As I stated in the original post this is for my immediate use firemaking kit. It will be one firestarter and one fire tinder. I have other firestarting kits throughout my BOB, which include: Ferosium Rod with Magnesim, Magnifying Fresnel Lens, etc.

Have to agree with Chris and Survivalgene. To not pack several types of fire-starting devices is just nuts. My kit includes disposable butane lighter, lifeboat matches, magnesium sparker, sparking wheel/flint, re-light candles, vaseline-soaked Q-tips, Wet-Fire tinder, and I am now advocating also carrying strike-anywhere matches coated with waterproofing such as nail polish or wax. Be sure to coat the match stem as well as the head. You don't necessarily want the match to stop burning once the head compound burns out and if the stem is waterlogged...

Personally for me it is a mini-bic lighter or permanent match. Sure I carry a few windproof/waterproof matches with a striker and sometimes regular household strike anywhere matches as well, however, if I had to choose then I would grab either the lighter or the permanent match and leave the matches at home. The reasons why are because I am not anywhere near any extremely high altitudes so that is not an issue with the lighter. Also the lighter and permanent match provide far more lights for the weight and space they take up. For those that don't know, I am fanatical about weight and space being kept at a minimum. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> The lighter and the permanent match also can throw a nice spark even after the fuel is all gone. As a matter of fact my toughest decision (and maybe you guys can help me with this one) is choosing between the mini-bic lighter and the permanent match. They are both about the same size but the mini-bic is lighter weight (remember I'm fanatical about space and weight) however, the permanent match has a lanyard ring which is great for attaching to my key ring, backpack, belt, wrist (when needed) etc. Also, the permanent match is easier to hold while burning for a long time without burning your fingers but the min-bic will take a lot longer to run out of fuel.

Matches have one overwhelming CULTURAL advantage over all other systems. Everybody understands a match and how to use it. I've been to one to many survival schools where "Quest for Fire" became some near religous experience with Thus Sprach Zarathustra playing in the background as our Alfa male demonstrated his antideluvian pyro catapult. I'm invariable gritting ( or chattering) my teeth, hands buried deep in warm pockets mumbling "light the #@%*! Fire allready!" <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Bow drills and hand drills are great if all you have on you is a knife but I must agree with Chris in that you go with the easiest thing you have to light the fire, especially when it's cold. At least I think that's what he said. I had to break open the dictionary on that one. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I´d definitely go for the BCB matches (actually I´d go for more alternatives but that doesn´t meet the constraints). They can be put in there and will stay good for a long time. They can be used with one hand if required (you can pin down the container with your knee). The limited burn time is no serious disadvantage when you prepare the fire before you strike the match.
Even though I´m a nonsmoker I have at least one disposable lighter on me. As I have it as EDC it´s checked frequently for fuel loss. That way I´ll have one that works when I need it.
When you try to judge the pros and cons you should rate each point according to your capabilities (sparks from an empty lighter are worthless if you can´t light a fire with it; even when other forum members can).

Personally, I'd take a 99 cent mini-Bic lighter over any number of waterproof, strike-anywhere matches. Granted, if the darned thing is cracked and you lose all your fuel, it's not that easy to start a fire with the spark alone (I just tried lighting a piece of single-ply TP with one; after 50 sparks - with the paper inserted into the opening - I took the end of the paper out and it was glowing, but I wasn't able to blow it into a flame. With cold hands and no dry tinder, I think you'd be screwed. But I can think of a lot of things that might go wrong with matches, too.

I think both of them would work about equally well, over the short term. But if I could only have one, I'd choose a good lighter.

Did you take the little metal safety sheild off that bic lighter first? Sounds like you didn't cause I don't think there would be a "little hole" if you had. Muuuuuuuuuuuuch easier without that blasted thing in the way. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Take the sheild off then get a cotton ball instead of TP and I bet you get a flame. <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Try this thing:

http://www.countycomm.com/AVIATIONFIRE.htm

Also:

http://www.countycomm.com/issuefirestarter.htm

http://www.countycomm.com/FIRESTARTER.htm

Another little trick, is to rotate the wheel of a bic lighter lightly as not to make a spark. What you are trying to accomplish is an accumulation of flint dust (for a lack of a better description.) Do this about 30 or more times and then throw a spark with the wheel. It will create a lot of sparks on your tinder, cotton ball or whatever. Try it out, it's worked for me many times, versus creating a spark with every strike.

--Chris

Another consideration in the subject comparison - In general, lighters are designed to make a flame go upward (I appreciate that flames naturally go upward anyway :-). With Bic-type butane lighters, a user is required to keep a finger, usually thumb, near the flame.

Since I am almost *never* beneath a fire-lay, I find holding a lighter near the flame in a downward position to actually get the flame in contact with tinder to be awkward at best. Sometimes I smell flesh burning before I get wood smoke.

Personally, I find matches and strikers preferable. In exchange for limited fires, matches offer some length and an extended burn time without holding a valve open. Strikers produce basically unlimited brief sparks, which can be turned into similar numbers of fires. A use of strikers offers the added advantage that they force one to prepare good tinder!

/Neal

Saunterer:

Are you saying flint burns?

Since there is no friction or impact on the flint dust you created, it would have to burn or are the sparks created because the tinder is burning and vaporizing the flint dust?

Bountyhunter

I'm not a chemist, nor do I attempt to pretend to be one. But to answer your question with a best guess, I'd have to say the flint burns. It's actually more of a sparkler effect; but only lasting for less than a half second. Works best when you remove the flame guard, so you can get the "sparkly dust" <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> closer to your tender when you throw the spark/dust combo.

I discovered this many moons ago when I was a smoker. While watching TV, I would rotate the striking wheel of my bic for a few minutes and when it came to light one up, I noticed this. I'm not saying that this method turns your ordinary Bic into a Blastmatch, but if you could gain let's say a 5x amount of sparks it could possibly be the difference between frostbite or a cool night under the stars, providing the conditions are right.


--Chris

Lighter flints are metal rods. Like most metal dust the dust from those rods burns. The flame is not as hot as magnesium but some tinder can be lit with it.

Definitely a lighter, more lights than the matches, but why just one or the other?

Two is one, one is none. Neither one is that heavy, carry both. Always have a back-up, even just out in the yard.