On the Survival Forum, the "weight of bob" thread made me think about what I carried during my 5 days of hiking, in the Vercors, in July.
It was only 5 or 6 hours walking each day, for about 15km, with a g?te or an hotel awaiting me for the night. Luxurius, I know <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> ?. Well, I quite like it so <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> ?..

Anyway, I had in my rucksack enough gear :
- to dry myself and change my clothes, if soaked by a sudden rain (or a fall in a river) ;
- to shelter from the rain
- to drink for 2 days at least, if saving my water ;
- to purify water, if needed
- to eat to keep my strength
- to make a fire (heating, boiling water, signaling?)
- to signal,
- to light my way in the dark

This evening I put everything on a scale and here is what I found :
Weights :
- empty backpack and various pouches attached to said backpack 2.000kg
- spare light hiking shoes 0.950kg
- spare clothes 1.200kg
- 15m or so of 8.6mm cord + 2 carabiners 0.870kg
- Poncho + ties for tarp/shelter 0.650kg
- FAK, sun cream, TP, a.s.o., 1.000kg
- Fire making gear (matches, bic lighter, tinder, ?) 0.250kg
- binoculars 0.250kg
- mess cup + spork + spoon 0.200kg
- tea, sweets, sugar, dehydrated soup, high energy bars, beef jerky, a.s.o. 0.450kg
- PSK, Krill lights, Surefire G2, spares batteries, Emerson Commander 0.900kg
- empty canteen + empty Platypus hydration bag 0.400kg


Total 9.120kg = about 20 pounds

+ I had about 4 liters of water + a midday snack (bread, cheese, ham, fruits)
(let?s not count extra PSK, knife, paracord, worn outside the backpack, directly on my person)

Grand total : around 30 pounds ! <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Who said his BOB was less than 10 pounds ? let?s see what is in it ! !
I'm sure he misses the terrine of foie gras and the bottle of Juran?on to go with.
<img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

___________________________________________
Note 1 : one day, it was quite hot and I drank 3 liters of water just during the 5 hours hike ! That only left me a 1 liter reserve, in case of...
Note 2 : I guess whith all that stuff, I could have survived a few days, had I been immobilized ; only problem would have been water. I should take more water !!
Note 3 : now I know why I had more pain with my shoulder blades than with my legs! OTOH, I needed the practice ......

Here's an older list but the basic stuff is the same just tweaked a little hear and there:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
3/4 Z-Rest Foam Pad 8.50
8 Ti-Stakes & 50' trip tease 3.50
8x10 Sil Nylon Tarp 14.00
A16 bug bivy 6.50
Mountiansmith Ghost 38.0
North Face Flight 39.0
(1) Stuff sack 0.60
EMS Fleece Glove 1.50
Long underwear top 5.75
Montane windshirt 3.50
OR Peruvian Fleece hat 3.00
Pant legs 4.00
SilNylon poncho 7.00
Thorlos Low Cut Socks 2.00
lexan spoon 0.5
Platypus sport bottle 0.50
48 oz Nalgene Cantene 2.2
50' Chord & SilNylon stuff sack 2.75
First Aid / Utility Kit 6.25
Map & compass 2.25
MSR hydration tube 2.50
MSR Mini works Filter 16.1
Pack liner 1.50
Swiss Army knife 1.00
Toilet Paper & sanitary gel 2.00
32 oz water 32.00
Food Weekend Trip 44.00
Black Diamond ION hedlamp 0.90
Cell Phone 5.00

Total Weight of Selected Items 256.30 (16.02#'s)

>>> I forgot to weight those !

>>> is that a sleeping bag ?

>>> I may need those for my next hike, where I won't be able to comfortably sleep in a hotel every night (at least half the time, I will be sleeping outdoors <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> ... and I will have to drink water from streams.

>>> I guess those are clothes. I may save a bit in that department by selecting better and lighter clothes.

>>> is that less than 1 liter ? I like to carry more :
- 1.5l Platypus hydration bag : so easy to drink while walking !
- 1.5l mineral water in a plastic bottle (=light ! but easily breakable !) ; to replenish the Platypus bag ;
- 1.5l in an aluminium canteen (non breakable !) ; reserve ;

I plan (well ... I would like to ... <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) another hike next year, in the Vercors area, but in the south part, aka "les Hauts Plateaux" : average altitude is 1800m, up to 2200m; more savage, less forests (= less shade !), less tourists, less villages, less hotels (damned !?!? <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> )
I guess I should be able to plan for one night outdoors, one night in a village, alterning solitude and comfort.
That means I will have to carry more water - and food - (or purify water as I go) and a foam pad/sleeping bag set (or a hamac ? first I will have to try to sleep in one !!)).
But I don't want to go over 30 pounds !!

OTOH if I loose 30 pounds within a year ..... <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I believe that was me that said my BOB was under 10# ***without water*** and for the record its about the same when I camp although I sometimes get up to 15# if I'm carrying several luxury items. Granted when I camp/hike I carry very little water because I am careful to plan routes where natural water sources are available. I will happily provide the contents of my BOB once I get around to inventorying all of it. Just give me a couple days and I'll post a list. I have been meaning to do so for a while anyway so I could get suggestions from you guys on stuff I could/should add or leave behind. If anyone is looking for tips on getting the weight down http://www.backpackinglight.com/ has some good recomendations.

Hey Frenchy,
Yes my Bob is really a minimalist survival pack. No, I don't have a change of clothes. I don't have shelter except for my poncho. I don't have a sleeping bag except my survival blanket. It's a "grab and go" or a minimalist backpack. It has the things I could survive on should it be 70 degrees and I could sleep outside. It's not perfect, but I think I would be OK, should anything arise.
(OK give me my 22 and my 12 guage)

That's a good point Bugman. In all fairness I should add that where I live and work the climate is quite warm for 9 months out of the year so for those 9 months my BOB does not require heavy clothes or sleeping gear other than what is needed for my one year old son. If I lived in the Alps it would be a bigger BOB for sure.

Oh and Frenchy, when I post my contents I will do it in the other other forum since it will very much be a gear-related post. I am going to post my EDC, PSK and BOB contents all at once so you guys can make suggestions and such.

Oh and you're right.... my BOB does not contain wine or fancy goose liver pate. Although I have considered a flask of brandy once or twice. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Edit: It's a highly polished metal flask so it would make a great backup signalling device ... um... ya... signalling .... that's what it's for! <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Sorry for the confusion I copied the list from a gear weight program:


A16 bug bivy self standing insect screen
Mountainsmith ghost back pack

North face flight sleeping bag


32oz is about a liter – this depends greatly on your location and water source. I can suck the 32oz down real fast. This is the bare min. I would leave the trailhead with.

Brian,

You should be commended for including an item with multiple uses. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Good idea ! I have one of those flasks and wondered what it could be used for .... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the explanations.

Your backpack is half the weight of mine .... that's more than two pounds saving ...

And anyway I don't like my backpack ... something wrong with the external pockets, not well designed... (or maybe it's just that I would like to buy another one .. <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> )

About the sleeping bag : I have one with the same design (here, it's called "sarco-norv?gien", IIRC). But it's much to warm to use anytime except in winter ... If weather is fine, I won't need a sleeping bag ; if weather is not so fine or rainy, a light sleeping bag should be enough... I will have to think about it some more .... <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Frenchy and Bugman,
Check out Hennesyhammock.com, I got the Explorer Deluxe about a year ago, and now, I "don't leave home without it".

Troy

I tried www.hennessyhammock.com without success.
But I was able to find a description at REI web site.

Seems like a nice idea, but .....
- what if there are no trees ? .... what is the vegetation cover like, at an altitude of 1800 meters (about 5900 feet) ??
- I really don't know if I will be able to sleep in a hammock ! I'm always twisting, from one side to the other and back .... I have to try it first ...

Just FYI, incase anyone cares, I just posted my BOB inventory in the other forum under another thread related to BOB contents and weights. http://www.equipped.org/ubbthreads/showf...amp;amp;fpart=1

Those Hammocks at www.hennessyhammock.com are pretty cool. I am almost always hiking and camping in thick woods with plenty of trees to work with and have often thought about trying a hammock.

thanks.
I will have some homework to do this evening ..... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Since I go with on the lighter side with my pack I allways pack a warm bag, gloves and a hat even during the summer. My summer bag is rated to 35 degrees F however I find it's comfy to about 40. During the summer I just leave it unzipped and use like a quilt. In the winter I have a Marmot bag that is down filled and rated to 15 degrees that I use in the winter.

frenchy,
O.K. here goes; If you find yourself in a place with no trees... use fence posts, tie off between vehicles(if there are any around <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />), tie off around boulders, be creative. If all else fails, it can be used as a bivy, no knots neccessary. Lay it out on the ground, crawl in, and go to sleep critter free.

Twisting, turning, and the associated falling out of most hammocks isn't a problem, I've actually tried to "fall" out of the thing, and believe me, you aren't going to do it without a LOT of serious TRYING TO. You sleep on a diagonal with the support lines so you lay almost completely flat, and this also solves the "whoooa sh... thump" problem. I've rolled out of many a hammock of all sorts of designs, and the Hennessy has made a believer out of me.

The Hennessy replaces/improves on tent/bivy/sleeping bag (in cool to downright hot weather)/tarp/rain cover/and a lot of things I'm not thinking of right at the moment. I've got nothing to do with the company, except being a VERY satisfied customer. While I'll admit, that at first look, it may seem a bit pricey, when you try this thing and see what it can do and the gear that it can replace at a weight of about two pounds (I think that's just under a kilo, isn't it?) I'm sure that you'll see that it's some of the best money you've ever spent on camping/survival gear.

Troy

Hey Brian,
Try the Hennessy, you won't be disappointed.

Troy

Try this link for some more info

http://www.hikinghq.net/gear/hennessey_hammock.html

it is really tempting .... <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />
Just reading your posts, Sgt Rock appraisals and Hennessy Hammocks web site, I want one ! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />
Well, maybe I should first determine if I will have to sleep outdoors during my next hike and then consider buying one ...

I have never slept in a hammock and I have some reservations, the first one being "will I be able to sleep ?", as I always twist from left to right (and back ...), before settling (more or less ..) on one side. <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
And it seems that would not be a problem with a H. H.

So, I'm tempted ...
And enquiring is costless ... ... I will post Hennessy an Email, for further information...

The more I read about HH, the more I want one, even if it's only to hang inside my living room !!! <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Has anyone tested a HH and then got any reservations about the concept or the product ? After all those "pro's", any "con's" ???

Frenchy:

One "Con" is that heavy guys (267 lbs.) like me won't be able to use it, and anyone who keeps their gear in the hammock with them better pay attention to total weight.

Bountyhunter <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Bounty Hunter :
According to HH web site, they have two models which you could use : one (Explorer Deluxe A-sym) is designed for people up to 300 lbs and another ( Safari Deluxe A-sym) up to 350 lbs.

I'm under 5'8 and under 225lbs. A Cocoon model should fit me.

But your observation is correct : if I am to take my backpack "on board" ( to protect it from storm/rain...), I have to consider the total weight.
An Explorer model then seems more adequate.
And anyway, I HAVE TO loose at least 20 pounds..... more if I can...

So please, Chris, forbid forum members to speak about "Juran?on" wine, "foie gras" and "escargots ? la Bourguignone", at least for the next 365 days ..... pleeeeeease ...... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

________________
Is there a difference between US and english pounds (lbs) ?
My dictionary says a pound is 453.6 grams ; some sources seem to differ .. <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Frenchy:

When I hear pounds from the United Kingdom, I figure they are talking about their money, but in the United States it is usually about weight.

Bountyhunter

I have the HH and have used it a couple of times.
Two words : It rocks! - literally, if there is wind, it would sway gently from side to side (reminds me of a boat), and as the American euphemism goes, it's a really good lightweight piece of gear. I got the standard model before all the fancy asym models came out.

Sleeping in it is not a problem. You could lug a pack in side if you wish, but I'd just leave it on the ground unless it was really pouring and there are critters about waiting to get into your pack.

Oh, yes, I works well in the rain. The Rain fly keeps the rain off and allows plenty of ventilation. And it works well in the humid and hot climate here in Singapore as well as keeping the bugs out. ( I used it out on military exercises - ha! No sleeping on the floor for me! )

one convinced user more .... thankx for the feedback.

The more I read about HH, the more I want one.

I have no reply yet to my Email, send to HH, concerning their operations in London...
Hope I will get one soon....

All my walking around has been strictly day walks, limited by the "necessity" to arrive at the hotel reserved for the night. No circuit change allowed, no delay ...
Never wanted to buy (and drag along..) a classical tent.
With a HH, it seems to me that a whole new world of hiking possibilities opens up in front of me .....

I WANT A HH ........................................... NOW ................... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

What does the HH provide that a hammock like the one below, some bug netting, and a tarp can't? Just exploring all options.



http://www.actiongear.com/cgi-bin/tame.e...2Fresults%2Etam

Enter_Name:

Judging from the picture, I would say the HH offers better comfort.

Bountyhunter

The Hennessy is solid (breathable) material on the bottom, the IMPS isn't, the HH model I have is rated for 250 lbs (will hold more), the IMPS is good for not more than about 200 lbs, the hammock/net/tarp are all-in-one and lighter than the IMPS, netting, and tarp sepparately, and you (I have) can roll out of the IMPS without much trying. I have an IMPS that I carry for it's MANY other uses, but I VERY MUCH prefer to sleep in the Hennessy. Just two cents from somebody who has tried and STILL uses both. And yes... I know, for those of you who like to travel light, I carry WAY too much gear <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Troy

I don't have (not yet ... <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) a HH, but from my reading, I would say :
- a much much better (and flatter) sleeping surface, where you can sleep on your back, or side, and turn etc.. without falling out
- a smooth surface (no netting on which to get caught when moving in the hammock) ;
- a greater stability, when entering or exiting the hammock, with the special mode of entry/exit the HH provide ;
- a bug proof netting, totally attached to the hammock, without any hole ;
- a set-up time of about 3 minutes, hammock and canopy alltogether.

well .... I guess HH owners could give some other differences...

Update :

Did I mentionned I bought a HH !?! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I had good contact with HH in NZ ([email]info@hennessyhammock.com">info@hennessyhammock.com</a> - but the following address seems bugged <a href="mailto:hennessyhammock@gulfislands.com[/email] , as mails sent to that address didn't get any answer) and Ann was really patient : she answered all my questions and helped me to choose the following items :
- an Explorer Asym
- snake skins,
- plus an extra (and larger) rainfly.
<img src="/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I hoped to get all that stuff in less than a week, as it was supposed to be readily available in London, for European customers.
But the extra rain fly had to be delivered from Canada (no stock in London). I got it in 8 days, IIRC.
But still no news of the hammock itself, more than 2 weeks after ordering.
I have no explanation on what's going on.... Should not take more than a few days for a parcel posted in London to arrive in Paris I suspect the parcel has not yet been send. <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />
Ann just told me last friday I should have a tracking number very soon.... but nothing is happening yet.
I hope I will have it in time to try it this month, as long as weather is fine. I don't want to wait until next spring to test the hammock !!

I guess I must be jinxed, with Canadian supplyers.
I'm still waiting for another item (a leather sheath from Dix Leatherworks), payed for in March ........ !!! <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

>>

Though somewhat off the general run of the thread, -what I'm about to say does have it's On Topic relatedness.

Which is that I'm reminded of an idea that's once occurred to me.

It may at first *Sound* Silly, -but I think that it does have it's Potential Merit.

It concerns the applicability of an attached Balloon, -for Backpack and other Weight Reduction.

Not so large or gas filled that one tends to float, etc, -And Not so large that the whole contraption is just too bulky to manage. As well as Not so small that there's little to No / Not enuff, -of Flotation!

Of course such could not be used for woodland, as well as for some other types of Hiking. (Intervening Branches, Trees, Vegetation, etc). But it *Can* be Practical and Feasable, I'd think, -for Hiking say on a Treeless Plain!

In short, -I think that this idea does have some Potential!, and Isn't so silly after all. What may others think?

It would Sure reduce a lot of the "Feltweight" of a Backpack! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]brian[/email]