I suppose I could have used "and" instead of "vs" but I want to compare and contrast them a bit. I realize that not everyone is into firearms and shooting and outside of the USA most of my guns might not be legal for a civilian to own. So if you're not interested in firearms, please forgive me and just skip to the next topic! But the gun folks might find this interesting. I consider a WML (Weapon Mounted Light) to be mandatory on any firearm intended for defensive use, either at home or in the woods. Early this year I bought the OWL and have used it a fair amount. The OWL is a heavy duty, extremely powerful WML with a built in switch, designed for carbine use. I really love the light! The whole thing couldn't be easier to set up and use- just mount it where you want it and tighten down one nut and you're done. No tape switch to place nor any wired to run. To date the only WML that's brighter (that I've ever found) is the REIN. Output is surreal and the color temp is fairly warm for good CRI. The cons? Well, it weighs 10.5 oz with the battery and it's pretty large. It's also not cheap running $375 or so. Lastly there are somewhat limited placement options since you pretty much want the bezel up as close to the muzzle as you can. This works great on most carbines but if you have short arms and really long handguards, like 13"+, it would be a bit of a reach to the switch.



The REIN is laid out more like a conventional WML with a push button tailcap and a wired pressure switch. It does have a very innovative switch cover that helps hide the cable, and the tailcap is set up to run the tape switch into the body from four different positions (12, 3, 6 and 9 o'clock) to further minimize dangling cord. I have to admit that getting it installed is about the most frustrating gun thing I've ever done short of maybe reassembling my Ruger MkI. It's a serious PitA! That said, the extra work does result in a very clean and tidy install. And you'll probably only need to do it once unless you transfer it to another gun. It's lighter than the OWL but subjectively bigger; narrower in the body but much longer. And it's not a whole lot cheaper. I took advantage of the 4th of July sale @ Rainier Arms (great guys!) and got the light + switch kit for $299 + a few bucks shipping. That said, the included mount is for a 1913 rail so to offset mount it as one typically does for a WML requires a mount. I went with an Arisaka which was another $45. Great mount, though.



Both lights share a very beefy and robust construction. They also were both designed to run only with an 18650 battery. Using CR123a batteries will void the warranty! Both come with a charger and micro-USB cable for that charger. The REIN comes with one battery where the OWL comes with two. Both are built with a very neutral-to-warm emitter with a very high candela beam. IIRC the OWL is rated for 50,000 candela and 1100 lumens. The REIN uses a slightly deeper reflector and is rated at 60,000 cd at 1350 lumens. Both will easily light up trees two full blocks away. If you had either on a rifle I expect shots at night on coyotes would be easy out to 150-200 yards.



I just mounted the REIN and haven't fired the gun with it on yet so these are just preliminary impressions, but I like both. I opted to put the REIN on my PWS and the moved the OWL over to my Bren 805. It's nice being able to move the switch back just a tad on the PWS since it has a 13" handguard. I could reach the switch when I had the OWL on there but it was a small stretch. We'll see if I leave 'em this way. It would kind of be nice on the Bren to be able to move the bezel out front a few inches which I could do with the REIN. Curiously, where I expected the switch to be thinner in height on the REIN I think it might actually be thicker than the switch portion of the OWL. It feels like it at least. And the OWL has a pressure pad almost 2" long vs the two round buttons maybe 3/4" in diameter on the REIN's switch.



Which is "better"? Hard to say! I need to get some trigger time but just LARPing around the living room they both have advantages and disadvantages. The REIN with its tape switch does offer more placement flexibility than the OWL. On the other hand, the OWL was designed to dispense with the tape switch and exposed wires. I'd say overall that if you have a carbine where the OWL would naturally land in the best spot for both throw and ergos, I'd go with the OWL; it's a bit more elegant, and probably more durable. If you need the flexibility in mounting and that last iota of output then maybe the REIN is the way to go.



I'll post further impressions when I've put some trigger time on them.

I've been running mostly Streamlight with a Surefire here and there for WMLs. Thanks for this!

Up til recently I've run a mix of different WMLs including Surefires, Malkoffs, Inforce and legos. Still running Inforce as Cloud Defensive doesn't make a pistol light. I'd been reluctant to try the Cloud Defensive products due to their core requirement of using 18650 batteries which I've always considered basically hobby batteries. But it does seem like an unprotected 18650 from a good maker like Samsung, Sanyo or Sony is pretty reliable. Basically manufacturers hit a wall where the limiting factor on output was the need to make it run on the 3v CR123a. The larger rechargeables have slightly higher voltage and up to 3500 mAH, about triple the power of the smaller CR123a.

I definitely don't think there's anything wrong with the legacy lights from Surefire and Streamlight. But Cloud Defensive has taken the durability up a few notches. They're about the only brand I know of that can compete with Elzetta, Malkoff and HDS for build quality.

But the main areas where they take things up a notch are ergonomics and output. The OWL is really a remarkable light, dispensing with the need to run a tape switch. There are good tape switches out there but there's always some downsides with having to manage the wire/cable. CD mitigates many of these with the LCS module on their REIN. Having four different angles to run the lead out of the light really helps to minimize cord tangle, and the LCS block lets you kind of wind the excess around the switch body and rails, further minimizing lose cord. The remaining amount of exposed wire can be tucked in tightly giving very little to get caught on things.

Their products are something of a game changer for me but I need to keep that in perspective. I've a chef, not a tip-of-the-spear door kicker! So I'm not engaging in gunfights every week, so this stuff is really overkill. And I'm certainly not saying that you need to toss your Surefire in the trash and get one of these lights. But I do think anyone that doesn't mind the expense should look into these lights if they're doing a new build or looking to upgrade.

Generally speaking I prefer WMLs that take lithium primary batteries. I have plenty of 18650s, and don't mind maintaining them, but a WML on a defensive arm is an emergency device for me. I've never been in the military or law enforcement, so I'm not maintaining my weapons and their accessories on a daily or weekly basis.

Another reason, for me, is to stay with lighter-weight devices. This isn't a shot at Cloud Defensive (everything I know about them is good) or the choices you're making, Phaedrus, just that I'm choosing to limit the weight of WMLs on long arms. My shooting buddies call my primary rifle's Vortex Strike Eagle 1-6X scope "the Hubble" so I need to save weight someplace.

I can see where you're coming from as I had to process those same thoughts. The lithium primary is still the gold standard for reliability IMO but a lot of reading and study has lead me to conclude that a properly maintained unprotected 18650 is very reliable. These are the same cells that make up laptop and power tool power cells as well as powering EVs.

The OWL is a bit heavy but the REIN is really no heavier than a Surefire. They also make a REIN Micro which uses an 18350 (IIRC) that's substantially smaller. Weight is always a factor, for sure. Moving my OWL over to the BREN 805 results in a real brick since the CZ weighs 8 pounds empty!

At any rate, I'm certainly not a salesman for Cloud Defensive nor are they the only game in town. Surefire does some "dual fuel" versions of their "pro" level WMLs that will run on lithium primaries or rechargeable which can be a good option.

Apropos of nothing I have been a lifelong booster of lithium primaries and a critic of rechargeables. But I must concede that over the last few years great strides have been made in terms of quality and affordability of the latter. Slowly I've been adding them to my tech stable and have been pretty pleased. As a long time skeptic of rechargeable batteries I have to admit that they're probably the wave of the future and even I can acknowledge their advantages in some applications.

Just a quick heads up, Cloud Defensive is doing a trade in right now. They'll take any light, working or otherwise, and give $100 towards an OWL or complete REIN/Micro kit/with mount. The light you trade can be a 'real' WML or a cobbled POS, they will accept anything. This would bring an OWL down to $299, not cheap but IMO well worth the cost (I paid retail!).

Surefire was a major match sponsor of the Ft Benning 3 gun matches between 2005 and 2010 which I had the privilege of shooting... and as such if you did well you might pick a high end Scout light off the prize table, or if you didn't do so well a lower priced Nitrolon G2 among other goodies...still a quality P60 size light.... the SBR MK18 has the Scout light, the 18.5" 870 the SF metal P60, and a SolarForce body holds the Malkoff module next to the bed...a G2 in the console of the truck... I have several SolarForce bodies, and wish they were still in business...Streamlight TLR-1 on the G17 with the RMR2

old school but I'm pretty old too... regards

Yeah, I really miss Solarforce. I have two of their 1 x CR123a boddies and light engines and a couple of tape switches. For being very inexpensive the stuff has help up great and both are now serving on some long guns of a friend. As for Surefire I have at least eight bodies, all with Malkoff dropins. However, I got an Email today from Malkoff; they have a new high output head for Surefire bodies but I'm not sure the M600 is the model it fits.

For handheld lights I'm a huge Malkoff and Elzetta fanboy! But when it comes to WMLs it seems that Cloud Defensive has lapped the field. They have Malkoff/Elzetta level build quality with outputs that are extraordinary...if you're ready to make the leap to 18650. That was a tough pill to swallow for me but I've been very happy with mine so far. For me the UI of the OWL and REIN are game changing to the point that it would be hard to go back to another brand. At least if a guy or gal has a Surefire M600 (or Streamlight equivalent) they do make an LCS switch to fit it.

Plus, I did just see that Cloud Defensive is working on a WML for handguns that will allow the use on holsters made to fit the Surefire light.