After Hurricane Sally, I'd like to expand the number of power sources I have. As those of you who read my previous thread know, the generator failed to start, contrary to expectation. Fortunately I got through fine with my other options, but I think I should have more for future needs. If you guys have ideas or product recommendations, I'm all ears.

Right now I'm looking at:

1. A power "station" -- basically a big rechargeable battery with outlets. You have to charge it before the event. The benefit of something like this is you're ready to power something, but once the battery is drained, it's done.

2. A solar power generator. The main problem for me is that my area gets power outages from storms and hurricanes -- not very sunny. It seems that people can still charge their phone on a cloudy day over the course of six hours or so. So this is not a great solution, but may be still useful, especially once the sky clears.

3. It seems that some power tools brands sell an inverter for their batteries. Alas, since there is no standard among these batteries, I can't get just an inverter for all the power tool batteries I have. The inverters are surprisingly expensive. They probably want to price them so they're just a bit cheaper than power "stations."

Thanks!

Bummer about the generator! In regards to the three things you're looking at:
1. What all are you looking to power with batteries? (Smartphone? Fridge? WiFi router & computers?)

2. What sort of budget do you have?

-Blast

I can't quite give a final answer for 1 & 2 because I'm still finding out the balance between what I can get vs. what I can pay. Since I move around a lot, I am looking for portable options. So no house generator + barrels of gas.

I definitely would like to power a phone for a minimum of a week. Preferably two weeks. So that's 7 charges at a minimum.

Powering a router would be nice, but if there is widespread blackout, will I have internet? I have DSL if that matters. During this last blackout, I had mobile data prior to Sally's arrival. After she(? it?) made landfall, I lost mobile data. I still don't have it a few days later. I suspect if I want to keep the router on 24/7, it may suck up more power than I have to spare.

Occasionally I may need to use my laptop (let's say 30 minutes a day). Currently I have no plans to try to get work done (which requires extended use of a computer). It's a good idea not to let employers think disaster time = more work time.

I don't plan to power a fridge. I think that will require a gas generator.

I have no chainsaw currently. So we don't have to worry about that.

How about some portable power station?

This video is just an example of what I´m thinkin of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDt62sQl8SA

If you have a car, you hve another electrical source. Fortunately Mrs. Hikermor drives a Prius....

In sunny SoCal, where I am primarily concerned with earthquakes, (LA had one last night) solar power is quite viable. I am gathering lots of different power banks, hopefully enough to keep the phone and some lights going.

Portable panels are sufficient for my needs at present.

I got through this time using my car and an inverter. But then I saw that cars are less protected than things you can keep inside the house. Neighbors lost cars to trees. So that's another reason I'd like to have more options -- the emergency may cause you to lose some of your options!

couple of comments... after the 2004 hurricane season in Florida where we were overrun with storms, I started standardizing my area and task LED lights, and weather radios with Eneloop AA...then looked into some alternative power projects

my first AA charger was DC auto battery (cigarette plug) as well as AC chargable...I purchased a 7W Goal Zero panel to look into solar power, and am able to charge 4 AAs in about 3.5 hours.. at the time my flip phone was not able to be charged with the 7W system

a 12V deep charge trolling motor battery was fitted with a cigarette plug female socket, and put on a float charger...
unfortunately I did not perform adequate routine maintenance , and after a couple of years, found a dead cell just before an approaching storm

my best addition was the purchase of a HF Predator 2200W inverter generator to back up my 3500W Honda... it is light weight and relatively quiet... both generators run off a squeeze bulb siphon system... the Honda directly into the carburetor (requires the fuel tank to be higher than the carb)... the 2200 has a fuel pump,so I plumbed a fuel line T between the fuel shut off valve and the fuel pump... an external fitting can be attached to the squeeze bulb system, or plugged if running off the internal tank.. the fuel supply as water proofed with a couple of 1/2" 90degree elbows, and a couple of short 2 1/2" sections of PVC, not glued, so you and feed the 5/16 fuel line through..one elbow fits over the spout of the fuel can with the drop tube adjusted for the can's height, the other sections fit to form a downward elbow to prevent rain from entering... there is enough room that a separate vent hole is not needed

I supplied power to three homes during Irma by placing the 3500 in the utility trailer and pulled it with the lawn mower (hitch ball) that way they could supply fuel from their own cans

the small inverter generators IMHO are the way to go... immediately after Irma, I picked up a couple spare spark plugs and required socket and cable tied one of them to the handle via plastic bag.... Mobil 1 synthetic

Les

A wind turbine might be an additional option. A Savonius rotor is relative easy and cheap to build, can be design a take down and looses efficiency with higher wind speeds. This is a good thing as it will not get into a runaway state.

One obvious question is have you figured out why the generator didn't start? Assuming it is a reasonable quality generator, it should be possible to locate the problem and fix it?

Like any other tool, a generator requires some routine maintenance. Some years back we pick up a virtually new Craftsman 3KW generator on Craigslist, from someone who was leaving the state. Every fall I take it out and fire it up and run a bit of gas through it. I've only really needed it once, but that time it kept our fridge and freezer, and the next door neighbor's, going until the power came back on.

If you opt for a small solar set up to keep phones and laptops charged, you might want to check out the Outdoor Gear Lab review of Best Portable Solar Panel of 2020.

Regarding routers, note that during the fires in the Pacific Northwest, one member of my clan found that line power and cell service went out, but internet via DSL continued to work. Best to keep all your options available. You never know what will work and what won't.

What do you have to do to maintain a battery or a power station?

Also, I understand that batteries have a lifespan. My lawn tool batteries are supposed to last around six years. That makes me wonder how often I will have to replace the power station.

Batteries and power stations have manuals that explain the proper maintenance regime. In my experience, they generally should be recharged monthly and after each use.

My strategy involves the following equipment:

• Several USB battery banks, some that I have and maintain and some that my family members have and may or may not maintain. This includes a few in my domain that are high capacity, including one that has a 120VAC outlet. The cars each have a smaller one with onboard solar recharging cells.
• A mid-size (around 8.5”x11” folded) solar charger that works with any of the USB battery banks.
• Two automotive jumpstarters. Both are full sized and quite capable. When one reached the end of its service life I was able to take it apart and replace its battery successfully, at a much lower cost than that of replacing the whole unit. Sadly, it looks like the manufacturer doesn’t exist any more, and I’m not thrilled with other options I’ve seen so far. Hopefully I can get a few more years out of the units we have.
• A 4000W generator that I’ve maintained carefully, along with 10 gallons of stabilized gasoline that’s rotated regularly.
• Two (and when Eldest Offspring is not at college, three) well-maintained vehicles that can make power, two of them with inverters in emergency kits that are in each.

Nice setup, Chaos! Are you using the jumpstarters as jumpstarters, or do you intend another purpose for them?

-----
PS. I just checked -- it looks like these jump start batteries often have USB ports. Mystery solved.

Bingley... I added that comment just to emphasize that reliance on one source was not a great idea... a better float charger with a battery monitoring function would have probably given warning, I just cheaped out the system...

my best recommendation... go with a quality generator that is portable and have a back up ( possibly an inverter run off your car)... convert it so that it can be run off a bulk gasoline tank, or propane/natural gas if needed for a long duration... figure how you will supply power to which appliances, and if back feeding through your circuit breakers, label the circuits, and if providing only 120V, change the breakers location to have them on the same 120v feed

I alternated the Honda 2 hours on and 4 off with the neighbors to keep their refrigerators cooled...and ran the inverter for about 3 hours nightly for my use, to power the TV and internet, and a dedicated power strip that controlled two 4x chargers, phone charger, and the 18v Ridgid battery charger for the construction fan... the inverter as a courtesy to neighbors as it is much quieter than the Honda

what frozen food I have was transferred to a 7 day cooler with 4 frozen jugs of water... perishable non frozen to an older 5 day cooler with 4 frozen jugs... I do not try to run my refrigerator, but could if necessary with the back fed 240v... a 120v line is available also and the circuits arranged to be fed by it

the portable inverter generator is my recommendation for the best emergency power source... my worst power outage in the recent years has been for 10 days in 2004... I survived that without either generator, was still working and had to contend with 90F temperatures at 11PM and I was getting to school by 7AM

Alright, I think I'll get a jump starter battery, a solar, and a power station or two. So even if I lose a few things in the next disaster, I should be OK.

Looks like I'll have to do monthly battery maintenance from now on.

Thanks, guys, for your input! The wind turbine idea seems especially innovative -- I never would have thought of it. I'm in the process of relocating, so I'll pursue the portable options for now.

The unit I have is (http://www.powerstationusa.com/brands/Powerstation/product.php?mod=PSX3) (no affiliation). It looks like I was mistaken and the manufacturer is still making them, I just can't find them for less than $100 at Costco any more.

They're surprisingly versatile.

Unlike smaller units, they have a good shot at successfully starting a car with a totally flat battery. They have a USB port, and 12VDC ports that can with an adapter (kept in each car) make more USB power. They both have air compressors and little area lights on them as well. I can run a ham radio HT ("handy-talkie") for at least a week, and a more powerful radio for at least 12 hours of heavy operation.

If I'm providing any sort of IT support at a CERT callout, I can power a laptop with it for a while.

While all three cars have jumper cables, it's much faster and easier to use the jumpstarter, and I think it's a bit safer too, being much harder to accidentally short a 12VDC system.

I sue phone/ laptop external batteries & the charge from the car method

I'm glad you shared your product specs, Chaos. I was going to get one of the smaller ones, thinking that was what was available. But this is the sort of situation where size counts.

When I'm ready to make a purchase I'll check back with the hive mind. I know how much fun vicarious shopping is for people who prepare...

I love spending your money .

I'd like to take a moment to compare what I call a full-size jumpstarter to the smaller ones that seem so popular. The one I have in my car has the following manufacturer specs:

• 12 VDC
• 400 cold cranking Amps
• 1000 peak Amps
• 18 Ah capacity
• "Starts cars, trucks, recreational vehicles and boats..." (in the manual)
• 20 lbs weight
• Chemistry: Sealed Lead Acid Absorbed Glass Mat

Compared to the manufacturer specs of Big River's "Choice" in much smaller and lighter jumpstarter:

• 12 VDC
• not listed: cold cranking Amps (the manual claims 500 "cranking" Amps, which I think is telling)
• 1200 peak Amps
• 18000 mAh capacity (18 Ah)
• Different, contradictory labeling about what kind of vehicle it's suitable for. In one place it says "Works with cars, motorcycles, watercrafts, ATVs, UTVs, SUVs, lawn mowers, yachts, boat, pickup,snowmobiles, etc." In another place it says "ATV, UTV, Dirt Bike, Snowmobile, Adventure, Personal Watercraft".
• 1.16 lbs weight
• Chemistry: "Lithium Ion" (see below)

How can the one pound lithium ion jumpstarter provide the same vehicle starting capability as a 20 pound SLA AGM battery based unit? It can't, quite. If your vehicle's battery is not completely flat, many of the lithium ion devices are competent. For larger vehicles, completely flat vehicle batteries, and very cold weather, SLA AGM jumpstarters are substantially more likely to have the cold cranking amps you need to get the vehicle started.

To be sure, lithium ion devices self-discharge more slowly as well as take up less space, weight and money. Furthermore they can last longer, as they are rated for more charge cycles.

In terms of safety, traditional Lithium Ion batteries (sometimes called LiPo, Lithium-Cobalt or LiCo) may not be suitable to store in a car. These batteries can go into thermal runaway at about 140 deg F, which the trunk of your car might reach on a hot summer day. A newer battery chemistry (most commonly called LiFePO4, or Lithium Iron Phosphate) is safe to over 420 deg F. Which battery chemistry does the above Lithium Ion unit use? I don't know. That bothers me. I would avoid buying such a device unless I knew it used the safer LiFePO4 chemistry.

EDITED TO ADD: Please see downthread, it looks like I posted bad information regarding Lithium-Cobalt batteries and thermal runaway.

My thanks to you all. this is a most informative thread; I am wrestling with many of the same issues.....

Speaking from personal experience and what I have also seen firsthand, those with vehicles with bigger engines (V8) will find that in very cold climates, these jump packs will not cold start these engines with any sure reliability. This means a boost from another vehicle with good jumper cables or an AC powered battery charger that also has engine start / boost capability.

As for the comments up thread about generator not starting. Like any preparedness item, generators need to be checked on a regular basis.

Also stay away from ethanol blend gas and also use a good gas stabilizer supplement to keep the gas from gumming and varnishing. For my power equipment, lawnmower, weed eater, boat motors, generators, I use the above non Ethanol gas and Stabilizer and never have any trouble starting any of these motors.

FWIW, the Wirecutter recommends the Weego line of portable jump chargers: https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/best-portable-jump-starter/#the-competition

What catches my eye about this line of chargers is the genius bass-ackwards design of the clamps: all of their chargers have this design - they look much easier to squeeze open, esp. for those with smaller and/or weaker grip strength

They recently came out with a (gulp) $400 1200 amp charger that might start up a Caterpillar backhoe.

Their chargers have a flashlight, and options to charge phones, etc.

I have not bought one, no financial affiliation; but might ask for one for Christmas.

Wirecutter reviews a wide array of stuff, some of which is of interest to ETS members.

Spot on advice regarding jumper cables. The jump packs are certainly handy, and will start a vehicle who's battery is only slightly down. But for a seriously discharged battery and/or seriously cold weather, there is no substitute for good jumper cables.

Get the thickest cables you can find. (Thicker wire means smaller "gauge" number.) Thicker wire has less resistance and therefor less voltage loss in the cable. Many of the ready made "roadside emergency kits" have cheap, very thin jumpers. I once helped some folks trying to start a car one frosty evening. They were using one of those cheap, thin jumpers, with no success. I pulled out my heavy jumper cable, and easily got their car started.

Regarding storing gasoline, I've routinely kept a couple of jerrycans of gas for my generator for a year without problems, and without using stabilizer. I fill them in the fall, then in the summer use a bit of the gas for the lawn mower etc. At the end of summer, I empty the jerrycans into the car, and refill them with fresh gas. I have never had a problem. One reason may be that Anchorage is a generally cool climate, and the gas is stored in a shed in a shady spot. It doubt it rarely ever gets above 60 F in that shed even in summer, and it stays much colder in the winter. I did this for years without problems. The last few years I have started adding stabilizer for extra insurance, but my experience is that for short term (up to a year) storing gas in a cool place, stabilizer isn't essential. I also test run my generator every fall.

I have a couple of the Noco jump packs. No affiliation, just a happy customer. In the car I have one of the small ones that will fit in the glove box, it is good for a small car. Also have the one that is the size of a shoe box in the truck, it has a flashlight, USB, and 12 volt cigarette lighter adapters. I haven't put it on anything that it would not start, even an old diesel tractor with the battery reading less than 2 volts which required the safety bypass on the jump box to be used because the battery was so low. I've never seen that old tractor start that fast. Will say that the higher end jump boxes are expensive but they can provide multiple starts on larger vehicles or equipment without needing to be recharged. I don't know how well it works in cold weather, colder than Florida anyway, but it has been well worth the $$ I spent on it.

Ray, I assume you have read Chaos' note about the two types of lithium ion batteries -- one type catches fire at a temperature typical for your car trunk during summer in Florida, and the other catches fire only upon reaching a very high temperature. Do you know which type Noco uses? I'm unable to find out on their website.

Addressed to everybody -- it's not easy to get all the specs for jump starters. Battery chemistry, cold crank amps, etc. are things that website listings often doesn't mention. The manufacturer sites are not necessarily more helpful. What would you do to make sure you get a quality product?

That's interesting. Is this for batteries sitting charged but static, as opposed to charging (traditionally the most dangerous mode) or discharging?

I’m not a chemist. One of the better sites I’ve found for info on this is Battery University. This page (https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/types_of_lithium_ion) states that thermal runway is likely at 150 degrees C, which is not the same as what I wrote earlier in this thread. Unfortunately I don’t know where I got the other information. 150 deg C is well above the point that water boils, and a very unlikely temperature for a car trunk.

I am on more solid ground stating that the very common Lithium Cobalt Oxide battery chemistry is more prone to thermal runaway than LiFePO4.

It looks like I was full of it on the temperature issue.



I’d suggest not buying a device that doesn’t come with clear and complete specs.

Alright, taking the recommendations from you guys, I'm considering buying the following:

(1) CAT 500 amp jump starter -- this is the link to the manual. It doesn't include the "cold crank" amps, but the specs look a lot like the PowerStation jump starter that Chaos has. In fact, it seems like Costco replaced the PowerStation with the CAT, and the price looks good. Right now I don't have any sort of jump starter (just jumper cables), so this would be an improvement for my car. The jump starter can also double as a power source.

(2) Some sort of power station. I'm looking at BALDR Portable Power Station 330W or Jackery Portable Power Station Explorer 240, 240Wh. But I'm open to other ideas. It looks to me like items with similar specs cost the same. In this sort of situation I'd rather not reward knockoffs at the cheapest price.

(3) BigBlue 28W solar charger. This is just for the cell phone. I recognize that this is not big enough to charge the power station, and I don't have a solar panel big enough for that job. You have to leave me a purchase to looking forward to in the future...

So, if the generator and the car inverter both fail, I can use (1) & (2) to charge my cell phone and to power my laptop and possibly my wi-fi router for occasional use. If (1) & (2) run out of power, I still have (3) to charge my phone so I can still post about it on this forum.

Comments about these products welcome!

PS. For (2), There is also an argument for not throwing all my money at Amazon. I have an REI membership, and I have the impression that Goal Zero is the first company to make this kind of power stations -- Goal Zero Yeti Lithium 200X

Everything I know about the CAT unit is good, but I haven’t owned one.

I don’t know BALDR. Jackery I do know, and like a lot; I’ve been eyeballing that specific unit.

I’m not familiar with BigBlue.

They all look like decent systems.

Perhaps you might consider a small 12V solar panel to trickle charge the CAT lead-acid (SLA) unit. I use a 2-watt panel on a smaller SLA booster pack and it works great. Those batts die if they sit discharged.

Seems like a useful comparison for shoppers...

https://thecampingnerd.com/goal-zero-vs-jackery-power-stations

All, glad to hear that the thermal process requires extreme temperature to run away. I have no idea what is in the box. Normally I would like to know more about what is in it. It is the Noco GB150 and it is "rated" (advertising is always suspect) to deliver 4000 amps for a very short time. How I started with this is a friend that buys cars and equipment has one because there is always a dead or dieing battery in something. He has carried it for years in the cab of his truck in the Florida heat. It looks terrible from years of constant use but he said that when it quits working that he would be buying another one that same day. So it came highly recommended by someone who uses tools daily. There are also quite a few reviews online. Like I said earlier, I have no affiliation just a happy customer. This thing just works, but I have only used it for jump starting and I don't make my living turning wrenches so it leads a relatively pampered life. It has been used to start anything from small 4 cylinder cars to antique diesels with dead batteries. If you are using it for auxiliary power one of the other listed products may be a better choice and some of the lead acid battery units have a user replaceable battery which may be preferable if you are using it for emergency power. None of the lithium based units that I have seen have user replaceable batteries.

Bingley, let us all know which one you decide to get and post a review after you have had a chance to use it.

A quick update, with information that may interest others looking for power stations, etc. I'm still "looking into it" and learning, so this is not the final word.

It seems that most products use either lithium or lead acid batteries, and it seems that lead acid batteries, such as the ones used in the CAT jump starter or in the Goal Zero power station, require more regular maintenance. This must be what Chaos referred to earlier in the thread. Without regular monthly maintenance, the battery would degrade and eventually die (or die before it reaches its expected lifespan). Lithium batteries seem to require less in the way of maintenance.

For people who may be away from home for months at a time, they may want to think twice about lead acid batteries.

That's true. But bug or feature? It's easy to trickle charge a lead acid battery from all sorts of sources. Very tolerant, and so very versatile.

Lithiums are very fussy about the correct input and charging profile. Increasingly, the charging circuitry is built right into the unit instead of those easy-to-lose wall warts. That's good, because it's not something you can improvise.

Lead acid batteries that are not sealed require weekly checking and replenishing with distilled water. Sealed lead acid adsorbed glass mat require no maintenance. The 12v 35ah battery is commonly used in mobility scooters and is readily available. I have a system composed of a 100 watt solar charger from HF, still working well after 3 years: 5 duracell 35ah 12v agm batteries, 2 HF battery chargers, and 3 HF inverters fitted with jumper cable attachments. I make my own cable terminals with copper pipe and a crimper. And a 4KW generator which will eventually break my heart, as small gasoline engines are wont to do.
I have reservations about jump starters and multifunction energy banks cause they have pretty small batteries on board, and charge a lot for the convenience of having lots of functions in a small package: when one element fails, the entire system fails. I prefer a modular approach with redundancy.

But then, I don't actually have a life to interfere with my spending time mucking about with a bunch of gadgets. YMMV.

I think the OP includes regular top-up charging under the heading of maintenance; that's all SLAs batts require.

Good suggestion re using SLA mobility scooter batteries. These see heavy use, and may indeed be more robust than the mystery SLAs inside power packs.

An update in my search of the best way to get rid of the money burning in my pocket--

While there are many brands of power stations, in truth there may be only a small number of distinct manufacturers. After comparing products in the similar price range, I saw that sometimes they look mostly identical. I find this frustrating, as this way of doing business complicates things and makes it easier to commit fraud. The company you buy from could be an ephemeral entity that just rebrands stuff. They will not stand behind their products, and if you try to hold them responsible, you'll discover they have vanished into thin air.

I also learned that the field is evolving. I notice many YouTube reviews of power stations complain about the charging time. Suddenly Jackery released a 300W power station last month that is supposed to charge a lot faster. Other problems that YouTube reviewers complain about seem to be design decisions rather than engineering problemw, and as the consumers grow more sophisticated, the manufacturers will start adding features that you could use.

So if you can wait, it's probably better to wait. In a year or two you may have better options than today. But if you're worried that another hurricane or tropical storm is going to hit the Gulf Coast this month, that's a different story, I guess.

It also seems to me that the quality of the power end stuff (under 500W) is probably just lower. There are more suspicious brands at this range, so beware!

Basically we are talking about a lithium-ion battery with imputs and outputs nd usually tiny light, so how different can the technology be?

Charging time has never bothered me - it takes what it takes, and I keep them charged and ready to perform. Also I use them from time to time, they don't just sit on a shelf.....

I am a power junkie, sigh.

I am not a huge fan of the ""solar stations"

I prefer to have the pieces separate. Takes more space, but hey, mostly for the house.

2 golf cart batteries- 6 volt, 86 amp hours each, 90.00 each.

They are currently on house power through an AGM charger.

I had bought 4 used 50 watt panels which are in the garage as a stand by, with an MPPT controller. (bought in an auction- came off one of those road signs, lol)

I have a 3 inverters in the garage, 2 of which can run our fridge or freezer (but not both at once)

I also have a very old Harbor Freight 45 watt kit- the panel are junk, but the brain part is useful-- has 2 fluorescent DC lights, and can charger 12 volt or USB...

I have a new-in- box 900 watt inverter generator- replaced the 1200 watt Non-inverter generator over the summer-- net cost of 60.00 after selling the old one.

From a portable perspective I bought a 21 watt panel that outputs to 2 2-amp 5 volt USB plugs, and have a 12000 Mah battery bank. This was capable of maintaining my cell phone, my tablet, and my camping fan for a full well and kids Boy Scout Camp..