I am preparing a bug out bag. I want to include an ax or a hatchet, but not sure which one. This article Hatchet vs Axe for Survival leads me to think a hatchet is a go, but I am looking for other's opinions. Will a hatchet be enough? I could fit a hatchet without any issues, but an ax would be a stretch. Any recommendation?

Unless you have a specific need or purpose, leave both of them behind. I assume you are looking at travelling on foot and that weight will be an issue.

If you are in a vehicle, a hatchet makes sense.

What is your usecase for the tool? What other tools do you have? The recommendation would depend on that. The recommendation might even be a saw.

I was thinking that Doug Ritter once said that a large handled ax is a required part of a Canadian or Alaska pilot's supplies. I may not have that right though. Per the comments, I always wondered what that axe was for.

To me, axes are heavy and relatively dangerous under an assumption that there will be limited emergency healthcare. Even in a non survival world, I really only use axes for splitting wood. A saw works much faster and easier for crosscutting.

In an emergency situation, for fire it it is easier and safer to use small wood. It might be useful to have a small saw to cut standing (dry) wood, but small saws like the folding saws tend to be all too "bendable". My experience has been that a bent saw can become almost useless.

Bow-type saws are much more durable, but much bigger. Years back many used a Sven folding saw, but I found its sharp corners to be worrisome. We used to wrap the edges with cloth - that worked At one time I like something called a Takedown Bucksaw - or similar, but I'm not sure that is still around. My problem with that is that it used a very easy to lose clip - a bad design in my mind. There appear to be many folding bow saws on the market now, but I'm not familiar with them.

There are also the wire-type saws, but in general I haven't heard good things about them. I've used the pocket chainsaw, and it actually cut very well, but I was always concerned about its complexity. Too many joints to fail.

For shelter, a saw could certainly help a lot.

As other have noted, it depends on your scenario. It also depends on your environment.

If you expect to carry it on your back for any distance, even a hatched is probably too much weight. (Or rather the weight penalty of the hatchet might be better used for other items.) If on the other hand you plan on using a vehicle, then weight and bulk aren't such a big deal.

It also depends on your environment. For short term survival, or if you are in an area of generally mellow climate, a small fire from downed wood or small dead branches will probably suffice for warmth and ambiance. On the other hand, if you are planning on surviving long term in the winter in interior Alaska or the Canadian woods, then more serious wood gathering tools might be a good idea.

As always, it depends. Look at the situation you expect to face, and the environment you expect to face it in. Think about how you plan to transport this kit. Then put a kit together and go test it out. If you plan to carry it on your back, hump it around for a few miles.

There is never only one right answer.

Neither.

My emergency kit has a small and lightweight hatchet in it. If I'm planning a movement on foot more than perhaps a few hundred yards from my vehicle, the plan calls for stopping to cache or discard things that are not needed for the specific situation.

My truck’s kit has an axe, but in a kit I would actually carry, not enough utility for the price in weight.

I prefer the Fiskars (also sold under the Gerber Brand) hatches and Axes. I would say go with a Hatchet if you are going to go with either. The advantage of the Fiskars is that all the weight is in the head and they travel well and as far as I can tell they are indestructible.

While on Trail crew I carried a Gerber (Fiskars made but Gerber branded) hatchet that was about 3 pounds, and I had found it to be as effective as a 5 pound standard ax when driving wooden spikes to make cross country ski trail.

Also during my time doing SAR in Alaska I often carried a hatchet (the same one as before) and it paid for itself often.

Do not get a super short handleed one, they seem to be more of "curio" in my opinion.

**Disclaimer** I am not in any way affiliated with Gerber or Fiskars, I am actually NOT a fan of Gerber tools.

I agree that they are excellent. But I can tell you that Mrs. Magnet was able to destroy one. This was not a fault in design or manufacturing; I bought another one without hesitation and put it someplace I hope she can't find it.

Wouldn't a folding saw be better for a bug out bag? KenK mentioned the Sven-Saw. I hear that it is a good option but not the only one. There are other good folding saws.

Jeanette Isabelle

Agree with the folding saw for a BOB; I have a Bow Saw in the truck (there’s lots in the truck). For a BOB and the situation you may find yourself, a saw is safer, lighter and packs small. There are times an axe is a better tool, but for many tasks, a saw is better.

neither... a folding pruning saw and a 14" Tramontina bolo machete

A number of Boundary Waters Canoe Area paddlers pack this Irwin coarse cut saw for clearing Portage and camp areas, giving it great reviews. Somebody makes a sheath for it, but I don't have his contact info.

https://www.irwin.com/tools/handsaws/15-protouch-coarse-cut-saw

Irwin makes 15 and 20 inch versions.

Oddly, I once ordered the 20 inch coarse cut saw, but Amazon delivered the wrong model - Irwin's much more traditional hand saw. I returned it and never reordered the coarse cut saw.

For most uses, I agree. I have a lightweight saw in the kit as well.

I'm always torn. I like axes and hatchets, use them, and own a whole range. They're the original multitool (hammer, cut, chop, dig, split, pull nails if it's a shingling hatchet).

In a difficult situation, I would be happier to have one handy (preferably one that can take outrageous abuse). But that's tempered by the injury risk. Even highly experienced users will tell you they've had a lot of close calls. A wound caused by a hatchet or axe, or flying debris, is not trivial. Fatigue and stress increase the risk.

The longer the handle, and the heavier the head, the less chance of injury. This is counter-intutitive, but it lets you set up a safer swing zone and guide the head accurately instead of forcing it. Light, short handled hatchets are the worst.

As noted by others, when on foot I can rarely justify the weight. I carry a saw.

Hope that helps.

Here are a few old threads to look at as well. Kind of cool to hear from members from way back.

http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=124226

http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=121384&page=1

http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=146074&page=1

http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=173871

http://forums.equipped.org/ubbthreads.php?ubb=printthread&Board=1&main=10608&type=thread

Great stuff dougwalkabout!

I learned to use hatchets and axes when my age had a single digit — that was a long time ago. If you are a novice and you only have an axe or hatchet because you think one should be in your “kit”, lose the axe/hatchet and lighten up the kit. Take that axe/hatchet and use it, practice and get a mindset of what can go wrong.

My brother was in the wrong place when an axe glanced off its target and (fortunately) the axe handle hit him in the shin. I understand it hurt like hell and the neighbor holding the axe couldn’t get him to the hospital fast enough, but no permanent damage. Safety zones and situational awareness are critical.

BTW, a sharp axe may take a bite rather than glance. Keep it sharp.

Agree 100%. Well said.

Chaosmagnet there is always one overachiever in every crowd. Also why I said "as far as I can tell" because I NEW someone has probably broken one.

Usually it's me, thus my nom de web. Also, last night I discovered to my dismay that Mrs. Magnet found the new hatchet. So far it is both undestroyed and not yet returned from where it was taken. If anything funny happens I'll update the thread.

Personally I like a hatchet. There's plenty out there that are sub 3 lbs. Like any tool, it can be learned.

Unlike a saw, you can hammer with a hatchet. You can (sort of) whittle. You can use it on on a ferro rod.

And, if you need to, you can use it for self defense. You don't watch "The Patriot" and notice anyone with a pruning saw.

I don't have much use for an axe nor a hatchet although I do like my Fiskars splitting maul. For self defense I prefer a firearm, usually a 9mm on me, occasionally a .38 revolver, or a 12ga pump when I'm out for a couple days. I feel that 12ga slugs will be better if I need to ward off a bear than a hatchet! I would rather not get close enough to use the hatchet!

Making kindling is kind of tough with a 9mm.

Ironically, never taken a firearm camping, had about a half dozen encounters with black bears and one distant mountain lion.

Maybe in grizzly country I would.

Look at all the old time trappers. What did they take?

A saw is great for cutting trees into logs, but when you're just busting up sticks, a hatchet is a lot more effective. You aren't building a log cabin with the thing. Go watch "naked and afraid," Les Stroud, Bear Grylls, or any YouTube survival channel. How big are the sticks in their fire? Not exactly saw materiel. Do you ever see anyone on Naked & Afraid bring a saw as their item?

I would be very cautious about relying on anything advocated on the scripted TV entertainment shows you mention as reliable advice for a real time emergency. I find it much more useful to consider the experiences of those in actual survival situations.

The "old time trappers" did not have access to anything like modern saws, like Silky et al. I bet they would have found a use for them.

It takes a lot of ammo, a safe backstop of course, and it's super loud.

I've managed to do all my fire making for the last 35 years without an axe. IMO a knife works a lot better for making kindling. So far I've never regretted not having a hatchet along.

Likewise, 35 years without a saw.

There's a tool for every job. A saw isn't wrong, but it's not the only right.

Saws have been around for millenia. What exactly did they need differently?

I mean, they did a good job with what they had - felling redwoods, making wooden ships, etc. 2-man saws were probably used then, but 1-hand saws were around.

Hikermor has pointed out many times over the years that very often no tools are needed to gather firewood. I agree. I have been in situations where I'd have had little to no larger wood without a saw but those times are uncommon. You can very often just pick up wood. Longer pieces can often be snapped into smaller pieces in the crotch of a tree. Sometimes you can burn a log in half.

The part that kind of has me at a loss is the whole "bug out bag" notion. If I had to bug out it probably wouldn't be to the forest. I realize a BOB is something different to different people but it's tough for me to envision bugging out to the wilderness. Perhaps someone can suggest a situation where that might be the best option. Perhaps the biggest reason I might have to "bug out" here would be because of wildfires; in that situation the very last place I'd go would be into the woods! If something truly epic was to happen here I'd probably seek to try to get back to my family in the Midwest or head west to stay with friends near Missoula MT or in Idaho. An axe wouldn't do me much good in that endeavor but that's not so say it wouldn't help someone else.

The only real wood cutting task I would foresee might be clearing a downed tree from the road after a storm. For that job I think my largest saw would be best, and a chainsaw would be even better. Alas, I don't have a chainsaw.

To be clear, I am not badmouthing axes or hatches. I really love my splitting axe/maul. I don't ever use a hatchet and rarely use a felling axe but it's probably a circular argument; I use a saw because I'm not good with a felling axe, and I'm not good with the felling axe because I always use a saw.

Still, it would be neat to own a beautiful Gränsfors Bruk or something to pump up my bushcraft cred!

I'm told that Transport Canada reported that in airplane accidents a primary injury was a broken hand, usually the dominant hand.

I believe that my trying to use an axe or hatchet with my left hand would rapidly lead to disaster.

A saw can handle the bigger wood efficiently and a smallish machete can turn it into kindling. I read that the man who designed the USAF emergency kit included a 12" machete as an all-purpose tool.

It can do some useful chopping and is far better than an axe if faced with vines.

About machetes and chopping wood. I recall with some distaste an episode in the piney woods of Oaxaca. gnawing my way through a log bout 6-8 inches diameter that blocked our 'roadway,'. it took forever, and i was wishing I had either a decent ax or some sort of a saw. None of out three vehicles had any such - a grievous error. Still I did whittle my way through the obstacle and we made camp.

Silky saws and similar "pruning" saws are quite different from the traditional buck saws used by early lumberjacks and I doubt that trappers downed any redwoods, or at least only a very small number.

I rarely backpack with them, but i keep a hatchet and saw in my vehicle. My absolute favorite tool of this nature is a pulaski - think single bit ax joined with a grub hoe. Give your fire crew those and shovels and your wildfire will be contained.

Hikermor, being a fellow SoCal boy, I'm disappointed in that last paragraph.

You know good and well that time, fortuitous rain, and Mother Nature do more good on stopping wild fires than a crew with pulaskis and a brush truck. Maybe if it's in the initial stages...

I would agree that most firewood - if there's actually wood for a fire - can be found with minimal collecting effort. I'd also submit that if you're cutting up large pieces into small pieces, you're probably better off walking a bit more for more small stuff. I don't think the juice is worth the squeeze.

Regarding machetes. Probably too thin for actual hard wood harvesting; great for softer stuff. Khukris could conceivably be used, as they're thicker, but IME they can glance off or spin in the hand rather quickly. I'm not a fan of batoning wood (remember that whole 'right tool for the job?') but a large knife is obviously key there. While a machete could work, I think most are still a bit thin for that. A good 8-12" Scandi knife or similar would be good if that's your preferred method of wood processing.

Going to the redwoods. If you pull up some of the few old pics remaining, you'll see guys with 2-head axes and 20' saws in the same picture. Obviously they can compliment each other.

In the end, it's OP's choice. Both are good options, both depend on his environment, skill and preference.

You are perfectly correct in that weather conditions are extremely important in the development of wild fires. But so are initial attack crews (and their support, especially aerial attack these days). Their efforts just don't make the headlines like a major wind driven blaze.

i have been on about a dozen wild fires over the years. On all but two of them I was on the initial attack. Conditions were favorable, and they were extinguished while still small. On my last, just two years before I retired, we had to deal with a strong wind, but we were blessed with a light fuel load, so nothing got out of hand.

These experiences gave me great affection for the pulaski. wonderful as an ax, and great for grubbing in the dirt and chopping roots. I saw one for sale a few years ago and it has a treasured place in my tool shed. But i didn't reach for it when we evacuated from the Thoms Fire two years ago - just left quickly. Houses about a quarter mile away are now being rebuilt from that blaze. in the final analysis, wind does rule....

I wouldn't carry an ax nor a hatchet in a BOB. However for me, being a lifelong user of both an ax and hatchet, I would prefer either over a saw in a survival situation.