if anyone is looking to have a pistol slide milled for a miniature red dot, I'll recommend you look at the work from Battle Werx... outstanding machine work for my RMR, so precise from front to rear the sight would not seat if not perfectly vertical... 2 week turn around of which probably 6 days was shipping via USPS... $75 + $6.99 shipping for basic non finish cut

Nice! Thanks for sharing!

For me, for now, I only want to train one way with pistol, and that’s with iron sights. Hopefully my eyesight will continue to let me do that for a while yet.

chaos... the ability to use the dot at night compared to a tritium sight system was the determining factor for me.. I've started shooting a G17 with a Vortex Venom for Steel Challenge, and added a Venom to my Advantage Arms .22lr conversion unit via DPP Titanium 7075-T6 dove tail adapter...my original Heinie Slant Pro sights are still partially visible at the bottom of the RMR window in case of a catastrophic failure

I've shot a fixed sight pistol for USPSA for over 35 years... my Limited M card was earned with a single stack 1911 in .45

Nice! I would love to mount a RDS to my VP9 or P30 but don't want to buy a new slide. That's pretty reasonable, price wise.

Phaedrus...I bought a complete Swensen slide from Midway for the Venom as they were factory machined for the Venom and a couple of others, but at the time did not have one for the Trijicon.... I sent the original slide to be cut for the RMR (the non adjustable one)... I like the way Battle Werx machines the locating posts and then threads through the stud... the front to rear clearance is outstandingly precise...they were the most reasonable of those I looked at, and after watching the video of the CNC work, decided on them... regards

I really want to get an Aimpoint ACRO; spendy but I have never been disappointed in an Aimpoint. Buy once, cry once.

Phaedrus.. I have 2 4x32's a TA01 and TA31-F, and a 1.5x16 TA44.... the TA01 and TA44 have been beaten up pretty well since 2005 on my 3 gun rifles.... feel the same way about Trijicon... anyway it was my birthday present to myself

Makes sense.

Over the last year I’ve made some changes in what I carry; I only carry with tritium nightsights and a weaponlight. I practice regularly in low and no-light conditions with live fire. While I have lots of room for improvement it’s working for me. Hopefully my eyesight will allow this to work for some years yet.

Intereting discussion as I just rec'd my new Daniel Defense DD5 V3. Decided I wanted to upgrade from 5.56 to 7.62. Have to get an optic for it and of course, the damn optic is looking to cost as much or more than the rifle, as usual. Still considering my options. Everyone I know has an opinion, and they are all different. ;=)

Doug... I've had several 7.62x51 rifles, a couple of M1As, inch pattern L1A1, and AR10... I am primarily a game player, USPSA, 3 gun, and now an AR9 for pistol caliber carbine competition... early on, there was a premium on shooting major caliber (.308) but not so much today (there is a Heavy Metal division)...my game 5.56 rifle has a Trijicon TA31-F... and the back up has the older TA01... the young guys today mostly go with the low power variable optics... good luck with your choice

the RMR pistol project is in consideration of advancing age, and declining eyesight... cataracts are not quite to the development stage to warrant an operation yet

if I had kids that were in law enforcement, they would be carrying a RMR equipped pistol if allowed by their administration... I think it is the wave of the future

At fifty my eyes are only going to get worse! I love red dots! My Scorpion is set with a brace, a WML and a Sig Romeo5 RDS. It's primarily a range toy but I've used the Sig on it long enough to be pretty confident in it (plus the irons cowitness through the tube). Not sure if it's a "serious" enough gun to warrant buying an Aimpoint or Trijicon sight for it.

My Bren 805 however...I do run an Aimpoint on that one. It's set up as my serious HD firearm. IMO there are lots of great RDS for plinking and general shooting but a short list of truly battle-worthy optics. Aimpoints work best for me and my eyes. I've got astigmatism but it bothers me the least with Aimpoints, and even though the dot will distort when my eyes are fatigued it doesn't really impair my ability to gets accurate shots quickly.

My AR is currently set up with a magnified optic. I used to run an Aimpoint on it but I prefer the Bren 805 so the AR has been relegated to range gun use mostly.

I was at a buddy's place last week and tried his Beretta ARX with a RDS. Very impressive! It wasn't a top-tier optic but as proof of concept I was very intrigued. Red dots do for pistols what they do for rifles, and I think they're a legitimate game changer. Now I just have to decide which sidearm to get milled. The top contenders are all HKs; my USPf9, VP9 or P30S. My normal carry gun is a P2000 but I'm not sure if I'd go the RDS route on that one or not. It has a V2 LEM but I'd like to send to back to the mothership to get the V1 LEM dropped in. The VP9 would be a good candidate as it's the easiest to shoot well. My USP has a match trigger so it's actually the easiest to shoot well I guess but it's a bit bulky to CCW every day.

Phaedrus... I had a similar problem trying to decide which slide to have machined... I picked up a Gen 5 G45 on Glock's Blue Label program they opened up to DD214 holders (still good till Veteran's Day)... I had a new set of Dawson fixed sights added to the G45 so went with the older Gen 3 G17... I have started shooting another G17 with a Vortex Venom for Steel Challenge, and get a lot of .22lr practice time in with the Venom sighted Advantage Arms conversion unit for the G17

Does this mean that the standard factory post and notch sights on my S&W 357 Mag Highway Patrolman are no longer state of the art, and possibly obsolete??

Hikermor... I still have a flip phone, so no... I tried to find a 3" M13/65 round butt but couldn't for years... I had to make my own from a M10 that I added a 3" barrel..

I've been playing the gun games for a lot of years, and it is good to see the impact and ideas competition adapted firearms have on people that carry them for a living

Good input. At age 66 my eyes definitely are not what they used to be, especially so in low light or darkness. This will be set up for serious defensive use, so am looking to make it pretty much military grade tough. That one reason I settled on the DD5. Marty builds really reliable firearms that won't let you down.

Hahaha! I don't want to be the bearer of bad news! No, it's been 25 years or so since those sights have been SOTA. The advent of tritium sights has probably made them 'obsolete' in the strictest sense. Most of the sidearms that I use for CCW have night sights which I think are a bit of an advantage, and at least one that doesn't have them wears a WML.

Obviously plain old sights do the same thing now they did during the Civil War. IMO it's not so much a case of them being obsolete as a case of having better options. The key word being options as in optional. I have found through experience that it's easier to shoot quickly and accurately with a RDS. In competition I think most guns have had them for a decade and a half.

Lastly I realize that no all gun owners are 'gun nuts' although I would probably fall into that latter category.

Post and notch sights are pretty close to being state of the art for reliability and ruggedness. And they're pretty awesome for lack of bulk and complexity.

I strongly prefer tritium sights (and have standardized on them for defensive pistols) but for me it's about rapid sight acquisition in moderate-to-low lighting conditions.

In true low-light shooting with handheld lights or a mounted weaponlight, the light shining off the target and backstop will wash out the tritium, leaving you with essentially a black post and notch.

Let's just say, hypothetically of course, that you are giving advice to a geezer with an antique 357 six shooter What sort of ugrade would provide useful capability in low light situations and not be excruciatingly expensive?

Some of us might need useful activities in between fire alerts....

Hikermor... a good light would be my first recommendation, preferably one that can attach to the barrel, and if not a hand held light and shooting support position that keeps your hand away from any cylinder gap escaping gases,... a P60 hand held size (similar to a Surefire 6P, LED powered by 1860 or 2xcr123)

I looked for production mounts for SW K and N frame (couldn't remember what a M27/28 is)


I'm not recommending this particular product, but something like this copy of a GI M16 mount (ideal if you could find one) a couple of wraps of tape to protect your barrel, and a clamp on mount that could take a 1913 (Picatinny) rail, or a 1" flashlight body

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tactical-Barrel-Mount-Adapter-25-4mm-Ring-Rail-for-Scope-Sight-Laser-Light-Torch/401840058042?hash=item5d8f88aeba:g:Q~kAAOSwx6Za8Bwi

25+ years ago there was a place that would drill out and retrofit tritium vials into fixed sights but I don't remember the name. If yours are fixed sights there may not be a lot of options. Older sidearms, especially wheelguns, were designed before lasers, night sights, optics and lights became fairly common. If your sights are dovetailed in then you probably have some options.

If a laser interests you at all then there are grips that have the laser mounted inside. I'm not big on lasers but a buddy of mine has a RDS and laser on his Beretta APX and it does seem to work well.

Mostly you should just carry a good tactical flashlight. By tactical I mean easy (for you) to quickly turn on and off one-handed, and possessing significant output. "Significant output" used to mean at least 100 lumens, but I prefer 500 lumens or more. I want my light to have a chance to temporarily blind an assailant, maybe even pee a little.

If you're already carrying a good light, I'd probably prioritize low-light training and practice next. If you're already doing that, you're way ahead of the curve. Tritium night sights work well for me.

I've got to agree with the advice from chaosmagnet. If you can't get some actual training/trigger time under low-light conditions there are some good videos (some really bad ones too) and that may give you some ideas. Find someone who actually knows how to use a light and handgun and work with them is the best bet.

I have trained with the 'harris' technique, the old fashioned FBI style and several others but you need to find what works best for you and your situation. I've got a light mount on the long gun but not on any handgun. However I always have a light with me. I got a purpose build extra mag holder that included a slot for my surefire flashlight and when asked about it I always maintain I would much rather have the light and one extra mag than two mags and no light.

EDIT: I forgot an important factor - from a cop's standpoint, a weapon mounted light equals pointing a weapon at what ever you want to illuminate - a light independent of the weapon lets you light up anything without also making you point a weapon at it too. Having both may be the better plan.

I got the original surefire back in the day (expensive but I was betting my life on it)and it was amazing - 100-160 lumens to light up the area or a 'bad guy' night or day - there are a lot of dark places inside even in the daytime. Right now my primary light kicks out 1800 lumens and I like it a lot. YMMV. Find something that works for you and practice with it.

Paul -

As pforeman says, a weaponlight should not ever be used to illuminate anyone or anything that you do not intend to shoot. A handheld flashlight is a necessity for low light operations. A weapon mounted light is great to have. When I’m carrying a firearm, I always have both.

Malkoff Devices ... many of you may already be familiar with the Malkoff modules and flashlights, but if not... they are not inexpensive, but if you have a quality LED light that you depend on....

the module is machined brass that acts as a heat sink to allow longer run time before your driver over heats, and the LED and supporting electronics is "potted", encased in resin... coupled with a well designed heat dissipating host flashlight body, heat is transferred for much longer use

https://malkoffdevices.com/collections/surefire-drop-ins-for-6p-g2-c2-etc-6-9-volts

MTC
As a former peace officer, in the mid 1970,s 80s . I had a stream light SL20 the most powerful flash light of the day, always carried it on my belt. For the above reasons.
However I am against any weapon light for the police,maybe exception for special teams. The local cops are not navy seals and most do not get enough firearms training as it is let alone waving a gun around with a light. YMMV

Malkoff makes great lights! I have maybe 8 or 9 complete Malkoff lights and more P60-type Malkoff dropins than I can readily count.

At least one large metropolitan police department banned weaponlights for patrol officers due to training issues. Around where I live a number of departments mandate weaponlights but also train with them extensively. I’ve never served in law enforcement, and I can focus my training time in a way that I suspect they largely cannot.

Chaosmagnet got it right - if you've got a light on your weapon, you better have a 'free' light to use as well. Back in the '70s - '80s I had an acquaintance who had done some extensive training with the RCMP on low-light shooting. His observation was weapons lights alone were a big problem and it was better to have a simple flashlight for the vast majority of tasks requiring a light. This was also in the day when using muzzle flash to see for night shooting was a technique...

An additional insight was that in most urban or built up areas there is usually quite a bit of ambient light - street lights, business lighting, parking lots, yard light etc. When you get into really rural areas like the boonies where RCMP may be and much like I was in out in the county there is often no light (think cloudy night, no moon and it's 2AM) You don't want to be looking for a lost kid with a light tied to your weapon and you sure don't want to be looking for a wounded animal without a light.

I still carry around a couple of flashlights daily even retired and when I was doing Corrections training the only other 'tool' used more than my flashlight were gloves... I always expected the rookies I worked with these last years to get and have a good light on them at all times.

To sum up: Get a good light to carry and a secondary one for a weapon (don't go cheap), carry it, practice with it, and get some practical training too.

Paul -

I picked up one like this from gouldusa.com - their part number 860. No affiliation, just a happy customer.

Streamlight SL20: I have mine still in the car. Big, bright, and good as an "impact weapon of opportunity."

This week I started experimenting with a belt-mounted flashlight carrier from L.A.G. Tactical (no affiliation). I’ve been carrying it behind my mag carrier on the support hand side, getting my flashlight out of my pocket with the intention to make it faster to deploy and perhaps a bit more comfortable. So far so good.

I don't have much real estate on my belt for anything else. The spare mag is horizontal at 11:00 o'clock, my sidearm is on my right side at 3:30. Don't want anything near either of those items nor anywhere behind me (don't want to lay on it). Normally my knife is in my back left pocket, wallet in back right and flashlight in the watch pouch of my front right pocket.