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#29317 - 07/31/04 12:20 PM Re: Mountain revolver
norad45 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 1506
My Mountain Gun is the blued Model 29-8. I believe it weighs in at around 39 ounces. The .45 Colt version, the model 25, can be seen here:

http://www.swfirearms.vista.com/store/in...;sw_activeTab=1

I replaced the (very nice) Ahrends cocobolo grips it came with with some finger groove combat cocobolos from Smith and Wesson. They cut the felt recoil a great deal and in my opinion look better. I keep the 240 grain loads in the 1200 fps range and it's quite comfortable.

Nothing wrong with your idea of mainly shooting .44 specials and having the .44 Mags to fall back on; you might also consider the Model 25 in .45 Colt mentioned above. Since the bullet starts out with a greater diameter (.451 vs. .429 for the .44 Mag) pressures, and thus recoil should be less. You would need less velocity to achieve comparable expansion.(You might have to handload to realize any benefit --there are many more loadings on the shelf for 44 mag/special than .45 Colt. Gives you another hobby though!)

Regards, Vince


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#29318 - 07/31/04 07:11 PM Re: Lions and tigers and bears oh my! again
bountyhunter Offline


Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 1224
Loc: Milwaukee, WI USA
Panzerboy:

I can guarantee you a .45 ACP is better than hitting the bear with your hands or a frying pan (See Tim Treadwell obit.) and yelling "NO!,STOP!".

Most bears schooled in proper English will just think you are a foriegner who means "Don't stop", as in, continue to attack me.

I still like my .22's in Wisconsin, because even though I have never been attacked by 4-legged creatures, I believe that no animal would like 1,200 feet per second, 40 grain hollowpoint .22's hitting its nose, mouth, teeth, throat, tongue, face, and eyes, and I would think it would turn away from the source of those impacts.

Bountyhunter <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

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#29319 - 07/31/04 07:25 PM Re: Mountain revolver
bountyhunter Offline


Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 1224
Loc: Milwaukee, WI USA
I don't really care for handguns in the .44 magnum and larger calibers.

Yes, they are great for people in Alaska and other parts of the world where large animals of a dangerous nature may be encountered in close quarters, but I would rather see those large calibers in short carbines for my personal use.

I have shot two .44 magnum pistols that belonged to friends, and they were both very punishing guns and quick follow up shots were a joke.

I used to think that maybe I am just being a wuss about the recoil, until a biker friend of mine with forearms as big as my thighs, an ability to take serious baton hits on his body, and almost able to hold a Harley in the air for repairs, bought a Ruger 8+" barreled .44 magnum and sold it 2 weeks later because he didn't like the recoil.

If I wanted a center fire wheelgun and rifle combo, it would probably be a .357 magnum caliber.

Bountyhunter

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#29320 - 07/31/04 08:07 PM Re: Lions and tigers and bears oh my! again
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
The Rangers who arrive at the Treadwell camp destroyed two bears with their service issue .40s. They also emptied the hi capacity magazines to do it. The 1911, 230 grain ball cartridge is a direct descendant of the same cartridge used in Scofield and Colt SAA revolvers. It's criteria was the ability to 'founder' a horse with body shots. A 850- 1200 lb soft bodied horse hardwired to flee is different from a 200 lb bear. Any animal is going to suffer potentially fatal wounds from just about any cartridge. Remember the poor elephant in Hawaii? That animal finally said enough to mistreatment and was eventually killed in a hail of small arms fire. The first and foremost quality of any defensive firearm is to stop the assault NOW. Once again, I think avoiding potential ecounters to begin with makes more sense. Thats why I boycott circuses <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

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#29321 - 07/31/04 10:30 PM Re: Lions and tigers and bears oh my! again
Anonymous
Unregistered


This isn't really an answer, just a comment on Mr. Browning's hogleg, actually a quote..."It won't punch a hole in a beer can, but it'll push a refrigerator into the next county!" All jokes aside, while I'd rather have a Ruger .50 in grizzly country, I'd sooner pack a 1911 than any spray can on the market.

Just one man's opinion <img src="/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Troy

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#29322 - 08/01/04 12:36 AM Re: Lions and tigers and bears oh my! again
bountyhunter Offline


Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 1224
Loc: Milwaukee, WI USA
No, no!

Colt made the hogleg.

Browning made "THE" Handgun in "THE" cartridge, "U.S. CALIBER .45 AUTO".

Bountyhunter <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

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#29323 - 08/01/04 02:30 AM Re: Mountain revolver
norad45 Offline
Veteran

Registered: 07/01/04
Posts: 1506
"I have shot two .44 magnum pistols that belonged to friends, and they were both very punishing guns and quick follow up shots were a joke."

That's not surprising to me; the first 44 mag I ever shot was a friends 629 that kicked the h**l out of me. But its all in the grips. If they fit they fit--if they don't they hurt.

The gun that intrigues me--frightens me--is the S&W model 329PD. It's a scandium frame(?) model 29 in 44 mag that weighs 26 oz. I hefted one at the gunstore and believe me, I think firing a full-powered 44 mag load in that thing would be like touching off a greanade in your hand.

It might hurt but boy would it be fun!! And it would be a true joy to pack!!

Check it out, it's beautiful overkill:
http://www.swfirearms.vista.com/store/index.php3?cat=293482&sw_activeTab=1

Regards, Vince















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#29324 - 08/01/04 06:52 PM Re: Lions and tigers and bears oh my! again
Anonymous
Unregistered


John M. designed the 1911, but Colt manufactered it.

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#29325 - 08/01/04 08:12 PM Re: Lions and tigers and bears oh my! again
aardwolfe Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/22/01
Posts: 924
Loc: St. John's, Newfoundland
In the interests of forum harmony, I was prepared to let this particular sub-thread die quietly, but since you insisted on resurrecting it, I figure ? wotthe?ell?

1. My apologies for having offended anyone; I simply made a statement based on my military training that I naively assumed everyone else already took for granted. I was wrong.

2. I never made any statements that indicated I felt people should not be allowed to own or carry firearms - I simply stated my opinion that those who choose to exercise that right should also accept the responsibility of doing so in a safe and prudent manner. The fact that some people interpret this as an "anti-gun" stance is something I find a little disturbing. <img src="/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

3. In the interest of total disclosure, I did state my experience and training level wrt firearms, but I'm not totally clueless about them; I just never had any burning desire to own one in civilian life. I spent 12 years in the military and was trained to use semi-automatic small arms. All the training I received emphasised that you never put a round in the chamber unless you intended to fire the weapon. When you picked it up in the morning, you checked to see that the chamber was empty; when you put the weapon down you checked it again; when you picked it up again, you checked it again; when you handed it to someone else you checked it; when you received it from someone else you checked it; when you went inside a building you checked it, and you never left the range until the range officer had checked it. Until this thread started, I assumed that was standard procedure for any responsible gun owner. Apparently I was wrong; sorry for offending you.

3. The argument that "I've been doing this since I was in short pants, therefore I know what I'm doing and I don't make mistakes" simply does not impress me. I have no way of knowing who trained you, what their qualifications were, or whether they passed on any bad habits.

To quote from Laurence Gonzales's book "Deep Survival", "The word 'experience' often refers to someone who's gotten away with doing the wrong thing more frequently than you have." I know far too many people who've been driving for 30 years who still routinely change lanes without doing a shoulder check, run yellow (or red) lights, and tailgate on the freeway (or the Canadian equivalent). This doesn't (IMO) make them safe drivers, it just means they've gotten away with it for 30 years.

In some cases, they haven?t even done that; one driver, who came within inches of rear-ending me when I had to make an emergency stop, pulled up alongside, rolled down his window, and gave me the finger <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> Shortly thereafter, when we were both stopped at a red light, he opened his door, leaned out, and repeated the gesture - just in case I'd missed it the first time, presumably. Obviously, he didn?t think he?d done anything wrong, so I guess it was my fault for trying not to hit that jaywalker.

Firearms are extremely dangerous and deadly - they're designed to be. It's not like boxing or snow-boarding, where a mistake results in you getting a whack in the head that makes your teeth rattle and encourages you not to do it again. Your first mistake with a rifle or a pistol could easily be the last mistake you ever make. Those who forget or ignore that do so at their own peril and the peril of others around them. So yes, I do expect people who handle firearms to do so responsibly. My definition of ?responsible? is based on my military training; I didn?t realise that it wouldn?t be shared by others.

4. The notion that someone who has "neither experience nor qualification" is not entitled to an opinion doesn?t cut it either. A young woman of my acquaintance died in a plane crash last year because she failed to question the pilot's decision to take off. The fact that she was not a pilot and had never before flown in a light plane did not mean that she had no business questioning his decision. I am a pilot - though not a very experienced or highly qualified one - but I would never have taken off sandwiched between two weather fronts on a flight through a mountain pass, as this moron did. As a pilot, I would expect and encourage a non-flying passenger to question my decisions if they felt uncomfortable, and to consult others with more experience; and I would not take offense if they elected to catch the bus home instead. I would expect a rifle, shotgun, or pistol owner to show the same attitude to someone who was unfamiliar with firearms.

5. I live in Calgary, Alberta, Canada. We have a bigger country, a smaller population, a lower crime rate, and better National Parks than you do, so there! <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> So I have no real incentive to come south of the border to get my hiking jollies. That means the chances of me going into the woods with you, teddy bears? picnic or no teddy bears? picnic, is pretty much nil. So the whole darned discussion is moot and I personally have nothing more to say on the topic.

Again, my apologies for offending anyone. I thought I was merely stating the obvious, and it turns out I wasn't. <img src="/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
_________________________
"The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled."
-Plutarch

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#29326 - 08/01/04 11:35 PM Re: Lions and tigers and bears oh my! again
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well stated!

Your analogy brings to mind a comment I once heard.
The statement was made about a third party after a rather bad display of effort; "He doesn't have 10 year's of experience, he has 6 months, repeated 20 times."


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