#291426 - 12/18/18 09:49 PM
Smallest possible survival kit
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
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Building some kits (and watching PT 109) this comes to mind: What is the smallest useful survival kit?
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#291432 - 12/19/18 12:36 AM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: chaosmagnet]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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+++
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#291433 - 12/19/18 01:57 AM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: TeacherRO]
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Geezer
Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
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The smallest kit doesn’t look like a kit, it’s called pocket carry. Knife, LED flashlight, Bic, et al ... a RESQLINK PLB will fit in your pocket too.
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#291434 - 12/19/18 02:29 AM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: TeacherRO]
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Veteran
Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
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Doug's kit, with modifications, mostly for water procurement and purification. I have played with many, and these components works, are durable, it is small enough to carry with you all of the time (unless you are in a Speedo in a fragrance commercial) and it has what you need. the only thing it lacks is water procurement and purification. For that I like Aqua pouch plus . It is small enough and has a water container, strainer and purification tablets.
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#291436 - 12/19/18 02:46 AM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: TeacherRO]
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Veteran
Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
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I have played with building the smallest possible, but still having the absolute necessities. What I have found is that, with training, and small knife, small saw, cordage (and dental floss works surprisingly well) and a lighter, you can do much. There are many variables, such as climate, weather, environment and situation (what are you doing there, what happened to put you into a survival situation), but generally these essentials will get you through. Knowledge does not take up room, and does not weigh anything. You always have your brain (or most people do, anyway), and if you prepare that thoroughly, you can make it in most situations. Every tool you add to that increases your chances of survival. Now, I do have my favorite components to a kit, and there are some that I would try very hard to make sure I take with me if I can. UCO stormproof matches are one of those things, along with 1 or 2 charcoal grill starters ( Ignito ), but cotton balls and petroleum jelly packs very small and works well also. There are several small ferrocerrium rod fire starters, but my favorite I can't find anymore. A disposable lighter is great and small. There are a few small signal mirrors also. I can go on and on. But then the kit gets big. You have to do the assessment of where you are going and what you can carry.
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#291437 - 12/19/18 03:32 AM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: gonewiththewind]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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I am content to have a kit that is just reasonable in size and weight, but if I were trying for the smallest possible, I would probably include a Mora Light My Fire knife, and then some sort of metal container for melting snow and boiling water.
So much depends on the environment and the situation. A good question might be - What is included in a survival kit which weight one pound (or one half kilo)?
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Geezer in Chief
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#291438 - 12/19/18 05:08 AM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: TeacherRO]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3164
Loc: Big Sky Country
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I completely understand that one can be separated from one's pack and supplies and that it's wise to have some gear in pockets or otherwise secured to oneself. That said I'm not a minimalist when it comes to survival gear. As an avid outdoorsperson with a keen interest in survival and bushcraft I can say that I have decent skills and practice a lot of them frequently. But survival isn't camping nor practice. So I endeavor to carry enough stuff on me to give me every possible chance at success.
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“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman
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#291439 - 12/19/18 12:55 PM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: TeacherRO]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 265
Loc: Stafford, VA, USA
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Let me get this off my chest now.....nobody carries a PLB when the "smallest" survival kit will be both carried and used. If you are carrying a PLB then you are equipping yourself with a backpack (or other) and planning on spending time outdoors. "What if you are separated from your backpack...?" well then you are in all likelihood separated from your PLB too.
Ok....smallest survival kit. I personally take Doug's kit and add whirl bags (breast milk) and potable aqua tabs, plus some hurricane matches, squeeze light, and a heat sheet and put them in a aloksack bag. That is paired with my always on me EDC (knife, lighter, flashlight) and will be carried on-body when necessary, or stuffed in a briefcase/backpack, or tossed in a bag while traveling.... This adds some water storage and purification and extra fire starting. I almost always have a firesteel with striker plus small pill container of cotton balls with vasiline on me as one of these always is in any of my go-to jackets.
This plus knowledge should work for most of N. America. Knowledge trumps all.
BTW, Cody Lundin's first line kit is based around a Mora wrapped with other stuff and worn as a neck knife (per his 98.6 degrees book)
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#291442 - 12/19/18 04:31 PM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: williamlatham]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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You don't need a survival kit in order to survive a trying episode - there are plenty of instances where non-kitted people pulled through, armed only with knowledge, ingenuity, and the will to survive.
How many people, well equipped with 'survival" items, failed to pull through? I don't have an exact number, but I am sure there are plenty of instances...
Knowledge and skills (plus a bit of good fortune!) can be of more value than gadgets in the challenge of surviving. But I will still carry survival items with me.
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Geezer in Chief
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#291444 - 12/19/18 05:35 PM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: TeacherRO]
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Veteran
Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
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There are a variety of methods for carrying a PLB, not just in your backpack. I prefer a Ribz Front Pack ( Ribz ), but you can carry it on your belt or a pocket (though it is not the most comfortable thing in a pocket).
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#291446 - 12/19/18 09:43 PM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: TeacherRO]
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Veteran
Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
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You must prioritize (as always) with what you decides to carry. In some situations shelter is the most important thing, and you may need it fast, so cordage and an emergency blanket. Signal may be all that you need, so light, whistle and something in a bright color. In very hot environments water will be critical, even before you get into a survival situation.
If you plan properly (environment, routes, leave a note, etc), and are dressed appropriately, it can really reduce the amount of other stuff you have to carry. I always go back to it, but your brain is your best tool.
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#291447 - 12/20/18 03:38 AM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: TeacherRO]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3164
Loc: Big Sky Country
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Even if you have a PLB you might be on your own for a while. Rescue might take hours or it might take days depending on the weather and the location. You need to be able to look after yourself while you wait.
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“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman
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#291448 - 12/20/18 01:07 PM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: gonewiththewind]
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Enthusiast
Registered: 01/12/04
Posts: 265
Loc: Stafford, VA, USA
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True, and that makes sense for some, but most people will not carry any type of chest rig. Too unfashionable or "tactical-like". They were designed to allow for a full combat load "on-body" which is essentially an enhanced EDC.
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#291449 - 12/20/18 01:29 PM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: TeacherRO]
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Veteran
Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
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I will carry what I need to survive, in a minimalist conception of that term, on my body (in my pockets and belt. I will carry in the vest what I need to do the work I am doing (navigation, water, binos, camera, communications, etc) so I have easy access without dropping a pack and digging into it. It also stays with you when you do drop you pack. In the pack is everything else. Think of it as layers, I can survive without the pack and vest, but each layer enhances my capabilities (and comfort).
I have never been worried about style or opinions when I am out. I have almost always been responsible for the safety and security of others when I am out, so I carry what I need. I think most people make such decisions based on comfort and effort (or reducing effort). A vest can be a little hotter.
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#291450 - 12/20/18 02:58 PM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: gonewiththewind]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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Survival goodies are what you carry so that you will not have to activate a PLB when misfortune occurs. As pointed out, help may be delayed or unavailable for some time. The measures you take immediately, even when aid is rendered in a timely manner, can be crucial in determining the eventual outcome.
All too often, all that the first responders can accomplish is to clean up your mess, and remove the bodies. You don't want to know how I learned this.... How many hikers carry a PLB anyway? Any studies or surveys? my guess is it would be well less than one per cent....And how many carry any sort of first aid or emergency supplies?
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#291454 - 12/20/18 06:07 PM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: gonewiththewind]
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Geezer
Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
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Agree. The aviation survival vest I wore back when flying was primarily about flotation. The kit in the vest was primarily about signaling — no food, no water, just a PLB, marine VHF radio (Ch.16), signal mirror, strobe and a couple flashlights. Fortunately, I never had to test mine for real. There’s another thread here regarding a Spontaneous Immersion Kit. As I recall, my point was that first you need to egress the car/truck, after successfully free of the sinking steel, you think about survival niceties such as getting to shore and not freezing to death in the process of waiting for 1st Responders — first you need to survive your initial contact with the water. Otherwise any kit is pointless. With my aviation vest the idea was not to survive at sea, it was to aid rescuers to get you out of the water. No survival kit fits all, they need to be fine-tuned to their intended situation.
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#291456 - 12/20/18 08:23 PM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: TeacherRO]
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Old Hand
Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1185
Loc: Channeled Scablands
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I tried posting this earlier, but it went into the ether or I hit the wrong button.
I learned (more than once) in SAR the three basic rules of carrying survival gear.
1 Keep your pack with you.
2 Keep your pack with you.
3 Keep your pack with you.
Some things have to be on your body however, since avalanche etc may take your pack without approval.
Beacon ( so your Bud's can dig you out) Radio/Cell Knife Fire-making Trash bag for shelter
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#291458 - 12/21/18 02:38 AM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: TeacherRO]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3164
Loc: Big Sky Country
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Apropos of nothing the Ribz packs are pretty nice. I had the original version then bought the new/improved version when it came out; I found it enough better to me that I sold the original one. IMO it doesn't look particularly 'tactical' although I suppose you won't see models walking the catwalks of Paris wearing one. But fashion shouldn't dictate what you carry in the woods!
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“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman
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#291460 - 12/21/18 01:01 PM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: TeacherRO]
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Veteran
Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
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Back in the 1980s and early 90s I (and many others) wore a Domke photo vest. Many pockets. It did not wear all that well with a backpack though.
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#291461 - 12/21/18 02:49 PM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: gonewiththewind]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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Many survival situations are caused by injuries of one sort or another. Therefore first aid is important. Most FA rigs can be improvised, provided one has the knowledge, it would be worthwhile to carry at least one 4x4 sterile dressing, and maybe even a 4" elastic bandage...
Realistically, the contents of a minimum survival kit will vary with the season and the environment.
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Geezer in Chief
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#291462 - 12/21/18 03:22 PM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: hikermor]
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Geezer
Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
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After injury (or maybe before) many survival situations are caused by people simply getting lost — “Doh! Where am I”. Wandering off and then suddenly realizing they don’t have a clue how to get back. So should a minimal kit also include a GPS or Map & Compass? Probably, but would basic navigation meet your minimal criteria test. Once you start including all the just-in-case contingency items, you don’t have anything close to a “Smallest possible survival kit”. Do a Google, DuckDuckGo or Dogpile search for “10 Essentials” and see what’s left when you remove everything that’s unnecessary. If you’re honest, you’ll probably find at least 10 items.
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#291511 - 12/28/18 03:58 PM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: TeacherRO]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
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I can get a fairly useful kit onto a wallet sized space: folding knife, lighter, cordage, cash, ID, pen, safety pins, needle and fishhooks in case, tape.
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#291685 - 01/24/19 07:23 PM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: TeacherRO]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
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the cordage in this case is 20-50# fishing line. Usually 3-10 meters.
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#296377 - 06/12/20 08:37 PM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: TeacherRO]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
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An altoids sized kit - though I now prefer a waterproofed plastic one. room for cask, a small knife, fire, tape, fishing line, safety pins, etc
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#296542 - 07/03/20 12:32 AM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: TeacherRO]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
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Although a wallet with cash & cards and a phone with useful apps will likely get you faster, farther and warmer...
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#296544 - 07/03/20 01:19 AM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: TeacherRO]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3164
Loc: Big Sky Country
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The Hill People Gear Kit Bag is a great pack to carry a minimal kit. It's primarily marketed as a way to carry a handgun so when I see one I automatically think "gun"...but other folks use them differently. It's a chest rig, and there are several models from smaller up to fairly large. My buddy gave one to his dad who has Parkinsons, he uses it to keep his meds and stuff he needs to keep on him.
Even with a sidearm you could still easily fit a light, knife, pair of space blankets, cordage, BIC lighter, a bit of tinder, a compass, etc. When overloaded it's not super comfortable but up about five pounds it's not bad at all.
It does look pretty tactical but they make one for SAR that looks much "sportier".
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“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman
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#296682 - 07/27/20 10:11 PM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: TeacherRO]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
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I'm playing with a wallet to cell phone box sized kit right now. I like a tupperware that fits in a pocket.
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#296686 - 07/28/20 12:29 AM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: TeacherRO]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3164
Loc: Big Sky Country
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You'll have to post a pic when you get it finished, TeacherRO!
_________________________
“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman
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#296701 - 08/01/20 04:19 AM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: TeacherRO]
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Old Hand
Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1185
Loc: Channeled Scablands
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Right now with the temp hitting 106F, matches, warm clothes, even flashlights, with darkness short in the north, seem unneeded. Water, salt, and shade on the other hand.
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#296702 - 08/01/20 04:41 AM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: TeacherRO]
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Carpal Tunnel
Registered: 04/28/10
Posts: 3164
Loc: Big Sky Country
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Yeah, it's even hot here in Bozeman right now. It's supposed to cool down to 58 F by 5 am but it's still 73 now at nearly 11 pm! Okay, that's not "hot" per se but normally it would be 60 by now.
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“I'd rather have questions that cannot be answered than answers that can't be questioned.” —Richard Feynman
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#296732 - 08/06/20 06:17 PM
Re: Smallest possible survival kit
[Re: TeacherRO]
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Old Hand
Registered: 11/09/06
Posts: 870
Loc: wellington, fl
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Vision of a St. Bernard rescue dog brandy cask flashed through my mind... then i realized that it was a spellcheck-proof spelling error...
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Dance like you have never been hurt, work like no one is watching,love like you don't need the money.
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