Someday I'd like to visit Hawaii!!! Maybe I should start a GoFundMe page??!!
While I find primitive fire starting VERY interesting, to me it takes so much skill and knowledge of local woods that I don't consider it so much a survival skill. Kudos to those who can do that in-field!!
Today it is just seems so much easier and "safer" to carry a lighter and a ferro rod as backup.
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Agree heartily. Not much weight or baggage in a lighter and backups. I like matches as a backup to a lighter. In fact, in the really critical lighting situations I have encountered, it happens that I have always used matches and they have done the job.
The real trick is going from the first flame or coal to burning fuel and getting the fire to be self-sustaining.
Lightning is a great way to collect a fire — it’s a gift from Zeus, don’t let it go out. Later, some cave dweller started a fire - probably by accident - and realized he could start a fire at will by striking a couple rocks together, as long as they were the right rocks. So did fire-by-friction come before or after sparks from rocks? Does it matter and who besides an archaeologist would care... (btw, of the above, I made up everything starting with “Zeus”.
I’m not a cave dweller nor a minimalist,
Matches are a great method for making a fire. I used strike-anywhere matches as a kid when the woodstove at home needed lighting. One match and you have a fire. Paper book matches would have sufficed, but I really liked wood strike anywhere matches. These days the chemistry has changed and they’re Strike ALMOST anywhere matches, so they too need back-ups. ...
Regarding back-ups: At which temperatures (cold) do Bic/butane lighters typically fail? At which temperatures (cold) do Zippo/naphtha lighters typically fail?
Considering that cold & wet have a detrimental effect on one’s ability to light fires, why carry a primary method of making a fire that is easy/convenient, and a back-up that is in a word, difficult.
Why would anyone consider friction to be a back-up to a lighter? Seriously.
Regarding back-ups: At which temperatures (cold) do Bic/butane lighters typically fail?
They don't actually fail. They just need to be warmed in your pocket or hand to vapourize some gas. I carry a Bic in temperatures far below freezing and never have been unable to make fire with one.
Originally Posted By: Russ
Why would anyone consider friction to be a back-up to a lighter? Seriously.
It's not about stuff, it's about skills. Practicing primitive fire techniques makes you a much better fire lighter regardless of the method at hand -- especially in difficult conditions.
This is where minimalists and I part ways. I can understand going solely with friction or a ferro rod (or a couple of the right rocks) as primary with a lighter as back-up. As you state...
Originally Posted By: dougwalkabout
... I carry a Bic in temperatures far below freezing and never have been unable to make fire with one. ...
...which tells me that a Bic would make a great back-up, in case the conditions were not favorable to fire-by-friction or spark; or maybe you are down to one hand ...
My primary method for lighting a fire is a Bic and it wouldn’t bother me a bit to carry a second Bic as back-up. It’s really about tinder and fuel.
I don't think the OP, nor anyone here, has suggested that primitive methods are the recommended solution for making fire. That would be nonsense.
As you say, two Bics cover most situations.
But you still need tinder. Maybe you always have some in your pocket.
But maybe, in a given situation, you don't. And as I suggested earlier, you greatly advance your skills when you experiment with primitive methods, because careful selection and preparation of tinder absolutely determines success or failure. When the chips are down, that applies to Bics as well.
Yep, totally agree with the key to a fire is in the tinder regardless of ignition source. I do in fact carry tinder, but that’s saved for when I can’t find something in the local flora that will suffice. I have been camping in PNW when finding anything dry enough to call tinder and start a fire was near impossible (campground by Crater Lake, Oregon), it was a cold, wet night.
I then graphed this data on a 3D graph. You see a very prominent peak at about a density of 0.38 for fireboard and spindle. but there is another peak at fireboard 0.53 and spindle 0.821.
This playlist includes numerous variations of this method including all natural material performed outdoors. The videos below and their content are a result of my own research and experimentation. It's extremely versatile and easy to learn. This list is not all inclusive. I have used many more plant fibers including Fireweed, Ramie, Flax, various tree and vine fibers.
These are some of the plant fibers that I personally came up with to use with this method. Flax, Fireweed, and Ramie work good, too. This is not an all inclusive list. I have used many more including various tree and vine fibers.
Rudiger Roll video 5 : Jute Twine - Plant Fiber - Fire Roll Friction Fire Jute Twine by Boggy Creek Beast
4:56
Rudiger Roll Milkweed demonstration (Asclepias) primitive - friction fire on the spot by Boggy Creek Beast
4:42
Nettle Fire Roll : Wood Nettle (AKA Canadian Nettle) . Rudiger Roll demo - Deer Dung - Primitive by Boggy Creek Beast
6:42
Rudiger Roll demonstration using Bittersweet Vine ( Fire Roll Friction Fire Vine Natural - Primitive by Boggy Creek Beast
6:54
Rudiger Roll demonstration using Dogbane - Indian Hemp Fire Roll - Primitive by Boggy Creek Beast
5:55
Rudiger Roll Part 9: Raffia Palm - Fire Roll Friction Fire Raffia palm fiber by Boggy Creek Beast
4:12
Rudiger Roll Part 10: Sisal (Agave) Fire Roll Friction Fire Sisal fiber by Boggy Creek Beast
5:19
Rudiger Roll video 15 : Yucca - Fire Roll Friction Fire Yucca fiber by Boggy Creek Beast
5:59
Rudiger Roll video 19 : Poplar bark (Tree bark) Poplar Fire Roll Friction Fire by Boggy Creek Beast
6:40
Rudiger Roll Friction Fire False Nettle - Fire Roll Nettle - Primitive by Boggy Creek Beast
6:27
Rudiger Roll video 21: No Ashes - No Tools . Bark, Stone, Hemp . Fire Roll No Tools or Ash Primitive by Boggy Creek Beast
2:31
Rudiger Roll video 43 : Hickory Bark Fiber Friction Fire (Tree bark fire roll friction fire ) by Boggy Creek Beast
2:34
Rudiger Roll video 48 : Slippery Elm Bark ( Tree Bark Fiber Ulmus rubra Friction Fire ) by Boggy Creek Beast
3:36
Rudiger Roll video 49 : Kudzu - Wild Vine ( Pueraria montana Fire Roll Friction Fire ) by Boggy Creek Beast
4:26
Rudiger Roll video 52 : Velvetleaf fiber ( Indian Mallow Fire Roll Friction Fire ) by Boggy Creek Beast
6:23
Rudiger Roll - No Ash - No tools - All Natural - Fire Roll Friction Fire - On the spot - Primitive by Boggy Creek Beast
A list of commonly available cloth materials/fabric that work with the Rudiger Roll Friction Fire method. I have also used Cotton bed sheets, pillow cases, bath towels, and underwear.
Rudiger Roll video 38 : Bandana (Cotton handkerchief) Fire Roll Friction Fire by Boggy Creek Beast
8:22
Rudiger Roll video 39 : T-shirt (100% Cotton T-shirt ) Fire Roll Friction Fire T-shirt by Boggy Creek Beast
4:15
Rudiger Roll video 40 : Wash Cloth ( 100% Cotton washcloth ) Fire Roll Friction Fire by Boggy Creek Beast
3:03
Rudiger Roll video 41 : Blue Jeans ( 100 % Cotton Denim Rudiger Roll ) Fire Roll Friction Fire by Boggy Creek Beast
5:01
Rudiger Roll Bandana - Fabric used in Nature to make Fire - No "unweaving" - SEE DESCRIPTION by Boggy Creek Beast
what I find with a Lighter is that it is below -25c they will work once after you take it out of your pocket and below -40c they might not work at all if you do not light it very quickly after you take it out of your pocket. it is always my first line of fire lighting, that save matches, but they are not totally reliable and at become less so at extreme cold temperatures.
_________________________
Bruce Zawalsky Chief Instructor Boreal Wilderness Institute boreal.net
what I find with a Lighter is that it is below -25c they will work once after you take it out of your pocket and below -40c they might not work at all if you do not light it very quickly after you take it out of your pocket. it is always my first line of fire lighting, that save matches, but they are not totally reliable and at become less so at extreme cold temperatures.
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