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#288456 - 03/20/18 01:23 PM Yet Another Lost Hiker in Joshua Tree - Found!
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
http://ktla.com/2018/03/15/man-missing-i...e-their-deaths/

Fell and injured; finally found alive after five days. Why tell anyone where you are going??
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#288458 - 03/20/18 02:38 PM Re: Yet Another Lost Hiker in Joshua Tree - Found! [Re: hikermor]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
With all of the information and education available, people still do these things. A common statement is that they are "experienced". That must mean that they have hiked at some time in their life. There is always a need for discussions like these, it will never end.

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#288460 - 03/20/18 03:14 PM Re: Yet Another Lost Hiker in Joshua Tree - Found! [Re: gonewiththewind]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
And of course, people do venture out without notification and return without incident all the time. Complacency develops. hey, I'm experienced. Nothing can hurt me....
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#288461 - 03/20/18 03:35 PM Re: Yet Another Lost Hiker in Joshua Tree - Found! [Re: hikermor]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
Yes, they gain a lot of experience of everything going right, and no experience in preparing for or dealing with emergencies.

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#288462 - 03/20/18 04:45 PM Re: Yet Another Lost Hiker in Joshua Tree - Found! [Re: hikermor]
TeacherRO Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 03/11/05
Posts: 2574
A PLB is both cheap and small...and/or a radio.

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#288463 - 03/20/18 06:17 PM Re: Yet Another Lost Hiker in Joshua Tree - Found! [Re: TeacherRO]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Originally Posted By: TeacherRO
A PLB is both cheap and small...and/or a radio.


We had better define "cheap" - a glance at the REI catalog showed PLBs ranging in cost from $150 to $500 - the more highly rated units being toward the high end. There are also subscription services required to fully utilize the capabilities of the units/

These units are definitely not foolproof in real world usage -lots of tales about their various glitches.

I admit I am a bit of a dinosaur. I kept out of trouble for 60 years without a PLB. They are not high on my priority list...
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#288464 - 03/20/18 09:56 PM Re: Yet Another Lost Hiker in Joshua Tree - Found! [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
Cheap relative to the cost of a SAR? An ACR ResQLink runs $244 on Amazon

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#288465 - 03/20/18 10:08 PM Re: Yet Another Lost Hiker in Joshua Tree - Found! [Re: Russ]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
For one thing, the cost of a SAR should be $0,000.00. The PLB doesn't replace a SAR op, it just initiates it, hopefully expediting it, resulting in fewer resources expended.
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#288466 - 03/20/18 10:31 PM Re: Yet Another Lost Hiker in Joshua Tree - Found! [Re: hikermor]
Russ Offline
Geezer

Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
The cost of a SAR to whom? If all expenses are thrown in a SAR can get very expensive for taxpayers. Someone is paying for helo fuel, pilot time and maintenance. That’s just the airborne side. If you’re saying the labor is voluntary so it’s free, your gas to get to a trailhead isn’t free and neither is your lunch. What a PLB does is shift some of the cost of the search to the rescuee and makes that aspect easier (and cheaper) for the rescuer. Someone still needs to do the actual rescue so no change in the $$ for that. But that’s just my humble opinion, I’m not an accountant and don’t play one on TeeVee.

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#288467 - 03/21/18 12:04 AM Re: Yet Another Lost Hiker in Joshua Tree - Found! [Re: Russ]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Here's the thing, Russ...Do you pay a fee when you put in a call to the police or fire department? It's part of the service you are entitled to because you pay taxes. I imagine there are times when a taxpayer might get a bill in some very strange situation where he is clearly at fault or playing games, but i'll bet that is rare.

In most of the US SAR is a function of law enforcement, supported by taxpayer funds, very often aided by volunteer work, ideally (not true in all cases) accustomed to the terrain in which they are working and skilled in the techniques necessary to function efficiently.

You are correct - The SAR volunteer is spending money on gas and vehicle maintenance, as well as training (FA course fees, etc) and gear. I dropped some bucks on BP cuffs and pneumatic splints, among other things. You learn to track your expenses because they are tax deductions and you get some compensation there.

Looking back on more than twenty years of volunteer SAR, I was adequately compensated. Not in dollars, but that isn't the only kind of pay back. There is an odd sort of feedback loop involved, in that the personal satisfaction derived from cooperation and teamwork is matchless. There is absolutely nothing comparable to the intense thrill, persisting for days, when you realize that your and your team's actions undoubtedly saved lives.

For me, the time when I was most intensely involved in SAR was also a period that was a flat spot in my career, when cooperation and teamwork were exceedingly rare on the crummy job I had. SAR did me an immense amount of good in getting through that difficult period. In the end, who did I save? I saved myself!

You mention helo costs. The highway patrol helos were performing their assigned duties; SAR and highway rescue is one of their assigned duties.

The military helos were based at Davis-Monathan in Tucson and their normal function was a high grade taxi service for parts and personnel to the various missile silos around town. They relished a SAR mission for the challenges to their ability. This was during and right after Nam; I guess most of them were adrenaline junkies. The operational costs were charged to training and it was indeed good, challenging training.

There's lots of ways to compensate other than money. Looking back, I think there is nothing I did that was more useful than SAR - my contribution to the common good.

I will now end my rant and step off the soap box....


Edited by hikermor (03/21/18 01:51 AM)
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