http://ktla.com/2018/03/15/man-missing-i...e-their-deaths/

Fell and injured; finally found alive after five days. Why tell anyone where you are going??

With all of the information and education available, people still do these things. A common statement is that they are "experienced". That must mean that they have hiked at some time in their life. There is always a need for discussions like these, it will never end.

And of course, people do venture out without notification and return without incident all the time. Complacency develops. hey, I'm experienced. Nothing can hurt me....

Yes, they gain a lot of experience of everything going right, and no experience in preparing for or dealing with emergencies.

A PLB is both cheap and small...and/or a radio.

We had better define "cheap" - a glance at the REI catalog showed PLBs ranging in cost from $150 to $500 - the more highly rated units being toward the high end. There are also subscription services required to fully utilize the capabilities of the units/

These units are definitely not foolproof in real world usage -lots of tales about their various glitches.

I admit I am a bit of a dinosaur. I kept out of trouble for 60 years without a PLB. They are not high on my priority list...

Cheap relative to the cost of a SAR? An ACR ResQLink runs $244 on Amazon

For one thing, the cost of a SAR should be $0,000.00. The PLB doesn't replace a SAR op, it just initiates it, hopefully expediting it, resulting in fewer resources expended.

The cost of a SAR to whom? If all expenses are thrown in a SAR can get very expensive for taxpayers. Someone is paying for helo fuel, pilot time and maintenance. That’s just the airborne side. If you’re saying the labor is voluntary so it’s free, your gas to get to a trailhead isn’t free and neither is your lunch. What a PLB does is shift some of the cost of the search to the rescuee and makes that aspect easier (and cheaper) for the rescuer. Someone still needs to do the actual rescue so no change in the $$ for that. But that’s just my humble opinion, I’m not an accountant and don’t play one on TeeVee.

Here's the thing, Russ...Do you pay a fee when you put in a call to the police or fire department? It's part of the service you are entitled to because you pay taxes. I imagine there are times when a taxpayer might get a bill in some very strange situation where he is clearly at fault or playing games, but i'll bet that is rare.

In most of the US SAR is a function of law enforcement, supported by taxpayer funds, very often aided by volunteer work, ideally (not true in all cases) accustomed to the terrain in which they are working and skilled in the techniques necessary to function efficiently.

You are correct - The SAR volunteer is spending money on gas and vehicle maintenance, as well as training (FA course fees, etc) and gear. I dropped some bucks on BP cuffs and pneumatic splints, among other things. You learn to track your expenses because they are tax deductions and you get some compensation there.

Looking back on more than twenty years of volunteer SAR, I was adequately compensated. Not in dollars, but that isn't the only kind of pay back. There is an odd sort of feedback loop involved, in that the personal satisfaction derived from cooperation and teamwork is matchless. There is absolutely nothing comparable to the intense thrill, persisting for days, when you realize that your and your team's actions undoubtedly saved lives.

For me, the time when I was most intensely involved in SAR was also a period that was a flat spot in my career, when cooperation and teamwork were exceedingly rare on the crummy job I had. SAR did me an immense amount of good in getting through that difficult period. In the end, who did I save? I saved myself!

You mention helo costs. The highway patrol helos were performing their assigned duties; SAR and highway rescue is one of their assigned duties.

The military helos were based at Davis-Monathan in Tucson and their normal function was a high grade taxi service for parts and personnel to the various missile silos around town. They relished a SAR mission for the challenges to their ability. This was during and right after Nam; I guess most of them were adrenaline junkies. The operational costs were charged to training and it was indeed good, challenging training.

There's lots of ways to compensate other than money. Looking back, I think there is nothing I did that was more useful than SAR - my contribution to the common good.

I will now end my rant and step off the soap box....

Why does the debate on SAR charging for rescue or not, come up on this forum so much? This topic and bear spray vs guns should be banned as both have debated far past any sense of reasonable discussion, too many times over.

The truth and the fact of the matter is many SAR teams choose not to charge for rescue. Here in my area, one of the most elite teams (North Shore Rescue) in North America, do not charge for rescue and they pervasively detail their reasons here.

http://www.northshorerescue.com/services/charging-for-rescues/

Thank you for providing a very reasonable, logical, and elegant statement in support of non-charge rescues.

But really, how frequently does this topic arise on ETS? How many threads have there been in, say, the last two years? Could you please cite them? I honestly don't recall all that many...

I wasn’t really discussing charging for rescues, just using a PLB to shift some of the cost of a search to the rescuee by making the search very short and limited to a 100’ radius (accuracy limitation of the PLB). You spend $244 and if you ever need rescue, it’s there and SAR doesn’t need to spend a lot of time and money (regardless of who pays) looking for you. It’s just an opinion.

Its cheap peace of mind - even at $244 for the resqulink.* Not perfect, by any means, but so small and easy to use, I recommend them to everyone who goes off pavement.

(* the battery is rated for 5 years and needs to be replaced by the company)

I guess "cheap" is relative, but certainly above $100 I don't spend the dough without consulting my better half about the state of finances.

Furthermore, the premise that obtaining any gadget and thereby securing "peace of mind." which sounds to me very much like "complacency." is highly questionable.

True peace of mind results from the true knowledge that one is trained and equipped to deal with the obstacles out there. Especially important is obtaining the skill sets and knowledge because, unlike PLBs and other objects, they cannot be left behind or misplaced.

The first reliance should be on one's self and the group, rather than on outside assistance. Not that there is anything wrong about calling for help when appropriate, but take care of yourself first.

I am a bit if a Luddite, probably because I have been romping around in the hills and valleys for more than sixty years, taking care of myself and frequently others, without a PLB. $244 will buy a good climbing rope, which frequently will be just what the doctor ordered (as well as other gadgets too numerous to mention).

As I am normally responsible for the safety and security of others when I am out, I carry both a PLB and an inReach 2 way communicator. These are not considered a primary option for safety or communication, but supplement the plan. There is always a good plan (think PACE), proper equipment (including visual signaling and cell phones) and training for the environment and how to survive there.

I have used the inReach to track students and communicate out (when there is no cell phone signal), but have never had the need to use the emergency signaling capabilities of the inReach or PLB. Even though we have at times dealt with bad conditions, injuries and potential emergencies, the plan and other equipment always got us through it.

It is nice to know I have the emergency signaling capabilities though.

A PLB is insurance when things go sideways -- a Plan B so to speak. A good plan with the relevant skills to execute will always be Plan A, but when things don’t go as planned...

I started carrying a PLB as gear on my aviation survival vest. The aircraft had an ELT but sometimes aircraft sink and there goes the ELT. I wanted to ensure an emergency beacon was with us after the aircraft was gone. I don’t fly any more, but the concept remains valid. You don’t plan to ditch, but you should still be prepared for the unplanned.

Certainly when you are responsible for others, a PLB makes considerable sense.