A sound-suppressed .22lr, takedown autoloader, with a retractable stock and 7" barrel, with a see thru mount, 2x7 scope and dayglo paint on the iron sights (something like the Marlin Papoose) makes more sense to me. You're not going to have the saltpeter and sulphur for making black powder. "Corning" same, (needed to make it burn properly in a firearm) is very dangerous. You need so much blackpowder per shot, it's so corrosive, such a pita to clean up after each shot, wow! It's also just a single-shot, short-ranged, noisy,lots of flash at night, wont pierce concealed armor and it draws moisture.

If you need to forage, so will millions of other people and too many of them will shoot you on sight, post shtf. It only takes one person, and one .177 pellet, buckshot pellet, .22lr bullet to outright kill you, or give you such an infection that you die of it. So, realistically you dont want such arms for a survival sort of scenario. If it's not shtf, your normal ccw pistol and a rental satellite phone will do far more for you than any sort of longarm, and it's a lot handier to carry, too!

Is there a forum somewhere else on the internet where people are advocating using muzzle loaders for "survival"? Where is that? I really haven't see anyone suggest using such outdated tools around here.

I wouldn't want a muzzle loader for survival, preferring a cartridge firearm. But you seem to hate muzzle loaders for some reason. Nothing wrong with them, and they are fun.

I wouldn't want a BMW for survival either, preferring a 4x4 truck, but BMWs are still OK as a non-survival car.

That really depends on the actual scenario. If combat is not a factor shotgun and muzzle loader have advatages. I own a Hawken rifle cal. .54. It will outrange a .22lr and it is capable of taking big game up to a bison. In a pinch it´ll shot birdshot as well. Bullets can be reclaimed and recasted. The propellant can be used for different caliber firearms without any hassle. Cleaning it is more work than cleaning a modern cartridge gun. But it is far from pita. A skilled shooter can hit with a muzzle loader at 300m (there are even matches at 1000yds).
The shotgun offers versatility at medium range. It can shoot a range of projectiles from slugs to birdshot. It can harvest a wide range of game from small birds to deer or boar.
When it comes to signaling, both muzzle loader and shotgun will offer a sound that carries much further than that of a suppressed .22lr .
For the scenarios I might encounter realistcally the breech loading shotgun would be the gun of choice.

For the newbies among us, this is not a survivalist forum.

I think I would agree that a magazine fed, breech loading shotgun is the most versatile firearm. However, firearms in general, should rate surprisingly low on the list of survival necessities, well below the significant needs of water and shelter, fire,etc.

In my own survival or near survival experiences, plus the times when I helped others in such a situation, I can not recall any time when firearms would have been particularly necessary or even helpful.

Firearms seem to show up mostly in the fevered fantasies of Mad Max, shtf, wrol, etc scenarios which don't usually even come close to reality.

I do a nice assortment of firearms because they do come in handy from time to time, and frankly, they are enjoyable. If it came down to it, probably the most potentially useful would be my AR-7(takedown 22) or my good old Mossberg 500 shotgun. In the long run, neither would be as helpful and a good climbing rope.

Yeah, me too, I even have “.22lr, takedown autoloader” although mine is not “sound-suppressed” so it’s not at all unique or interesting.

so only "unique or interesting" topics are allowed here? that would rule out 99% of this site's content, for a fact. Somebody here doens't know that the suppressor can be removed from a 22lr rifle, or that a 7" .22lr aint loud enough to be a signal device? Like I said, if it's not shtf, your pocket pistol and a rental satellite phone are worth far more than any longarm. If it IS shtf, the last thing you want is a noisy weapon. If you had to carry that shotgun and enough ammo to make it worth having, for a month after shtf, you'd toss it into the creek. 10 shells to the lb, and how many of each would be slugs, buckshot or birdshot. The birdshot is as nearly worthless in combat as the buck and slugs are for small gam. HOw"versatile" is it, once when you've run out of ammo for it? You'd insist on having 100's of rds for a fighting rifle. That would be 20-30 lbs of 12 ga. :-) When it's a general shtf thing, you'll be attacked a lot, by men and dogs. Until then the longarm is no help vs being cut off by flooding, avalanche, fire. It wont help if you've broken your leg, but that rental satellite phone will.

try living off of that muzzleloader for a few months , cleaning it in the field, having to pull a charge all the time, cause you reloaded it immediately after firing, so you'd have the potential if you got another chance. It most certainly IS a pita. I dont hate anything, but there's billions of things that aint worth owning. :-)


as far as unique goes, you'll look far and wide and never find such a modified Papoose. and millions of us find suppressed .22 lr guns to be quite interesting. If they were legal for everyone, everybody would have one.

I think I am beginning to get the impression that you possibly might be beginning to form definite opinions on this matter. That's nice....

Please note Russ's first post on this thread - above.

Then I think your entire premise is really just a game. I see a lot of that, touting this or that (in the way of camp gear or know-how " for the homeless'. I was homeless for 3 years, and believe me, you are way ahead to buy an old junk car for $300, and live in town, than you are to spend 100's of $ on gear and live in the woods. :-) i lived at the mission until I could get enough craigslist and day labor money to buy the car, tossed out the rear and passendger seats, cut out the crossmembers blocking access to the trunk, installed a sheet of particle board and had a sleeping area. I got it running well enough to get a steady job, then bought a minivan and sold the old car to another homeless guy. He was a drunk and lost it to a towing company in less than a week. You have to move it, about 7 am and 10pm, or get into hassles. You only have to move it 1/2 mile or so, so it can have all kinds of horrible problems, and it will still serve the purpose. You can get food stamps, food from the food pantries, eat at the church and the mission. I mostly got around by bus (1/2 fare) and one my old bicycle. Once I got into jr college, got grants and loans, I got a 2 year degree that led to a decent job. The grants paid my actual expenses for college, selling my plasma covered most of my expenses. I used the school loan money to buy a house with a VA loan and now I rent out weekly rooms. It pays me pretty well.

I never once had to cook a meal in the vehicle. Only had to use the emergency kitty litter pan a couple of times in 3 years. Used jars for liquid waste. The acids destroy the lid's ability to seal liquids, so the jar has to be replaced about once a month. Ragu spaghetti sauce jars work pretty well. :-)

I mostly hung-out at the college library, but Planet Fitness gyms, $35 a month, are a godsend. They offer 24-7 access to a shower, toilet, electricity, a place out of the cold or heat, and the Wifi works in the parking lot, if you park close to the building (ie, late at night) You dont get hassled for parking there, either, since you're a member.