Every once in awhile, you have occasion to move dirt. What implement do you prefer for this task? I always have a shovel of some sort in any vehicle I drive, in almost any environment - you just never know.

As an archaeologist, I have learned a thing or two about moving dirt, and I have used every thing from dynamite (half sticks only, we want to be delicate), to back hoes, to jack hammers, to shovels, to small trowels, and even brushes.

I like a standard long handle, round point for "normal" digging, and a GI entrenching tool or short handled shovel for tight spots. Ideally, I would pair up shovels with a Pulaski for dealing with roots and the like. This is almost precisely what I used on a fire crew many moons ago.

Whatever your choice, be sure the business end is sharp - this makes a huge difference.

I've stopped carrying a GI-style entrenching tool and gotten the Cold Steel non-folding version. It works a treat for small jobs.

Ditto. The CS SF Shovel has a better feel and is mostly indestructible.

For normal digging I have a fairly generic FG handled shovel from Home Depot; it is sharp.

Same with me. The Cold Steel SF shovel digs like a demon. Goes through roots easily. Get the sheath for it, it does not come with one.

Depends

6 foot digging bar, post hole, pick axe, round nose, materials transfer, long handled aluminum grain scoop, avi shovel, hay fork - all live in my garage.

The best thing about the CS shovel is something never mentioned on the site and rarely in reviews, the handle is easily replaceable in the field (might be an idea to carry a few spare screws)

https://www.outdoormesser.de/Cold-Steel-Special-Forces-Shovel/en

qjs

I agree with Montanero and others here.
The Cold Steel Shovel is a real piece of work. It is a very strong tool. i always try to carry one in my Jeep. It is much stronger than your normal small shovel from a garden store. In principle, it could also be used for self-defense in a risky situation.

Practically, i have only ever used my CS shovel as a gardening tool. but it is a very handy one. :-)

I do want to ask the OP (Hikermor), what do you recommend for a long-handled shovel? There are times when i have to dig up tree roots.

thanks,
Pete

I think just about any standard brand will work. One of my favs had a fiberglass handle, which was nice to work with, smooth, and easy on the hands, but I have never broken a wooden handled shovel, even on fire suppression duty. For overall use, a round point is the most versatile, but sometimes a square point is better. If I am going to move a lot of dirt, I definitely want a long handle, but there is a smaller size, often termed a "lady shovel(good grief, how sexist!) which is smaller and perfect for restricted areas. It might be available in pink......

A good combination often is a full size LHRP together with a smaller, entrenching tool size digger. Noting the enthusiastic response by CS fans, I still like the GI entrenching tool, primarily because you can adjust the angle of the blade and use it to chop. Of course, now and then the screw mechanism is jammed, and then a lot of fun is in store...

Please tell... as i haven't jammed mine yet. But it feels awfully gritty...

I had been using my trencher with the blade cocked at a ninety degree angle for quite some time, and when I went to change it, the locking ring would not budge, try as hard as I might. I eventually freed the ring with help from some WD40. It was a combination of hard use and dirt getting into the threads....

It's probably not exactly what you would choose but I carry a small plastic trowel by Fiskars. It is made for gardening but it's cheap, strong and light, perfect for digging catholes or small fire pits. The handle is also hollow with room for TP, matches, etc. I keep a small lanyard of paracord to keep it handy and to help pull the plug from the handle to access the contents. I keep in a heavy duty ziplock baggie to keep sod and mud off my other stuff.

For vehicle or pack, a short, D-handle, small head shovel from Craftsman or True Value.

I have a Fiskars folding shovel in my car. If I know that I will have to move dirt, it usually is an ex-army shovel with fixed handle.

Actually, that is quite intriguing. I currently use a Japanese soil knife (hori-hori) for those tasks. A plastic version would be quite useful in archaeology/paleontological work when you are dealing with fragile and delicate stuff and you don't want to ding delicate bones. Sometimes we get down to toothpicks and sharpened popsickle sticks.

Another goodie for the toolbox...

I keep meaning to throw a trowel in my pack, but usually a rock or stick work just fine for my needs. We stumbled upon an excavation opportunity on a hike this week, in fact, and used a stick and a couple of rocks to dig up an old railway treasure. Here's a little clip (at the end of a long video):

[video:youtube]http://youtu.be/g7grHEzV240?t=15m6s[/video]

I don't have the patience to dig like an archaeologist -- largish shovel, post-hole digger, digging bar for smaller jobs. For serious digging, I recommend a backhoe and if that doesn't work, then an excavator with an enclosed air conditioned cab.

I agree with you on the backhoe. It is surprising how delicate an instrument a backhoe can be, in the hands of an experienced operator who knows his stuff. For that matter, a trowel in the hands of a boob is an instrument of unparalleled destruction.

It all comes down to skills being ultimately more important that gear.

I inherited an entrenching tool with a cracked handle. I replaced the handle with most of a handle from a broken-handled LHRP. The handle is about twice as long as stock, now. It's a good length for a 90 degree setting to scrape snow away from the tires--to put chains on, and a good length for picking up dead stuff that I don't want to get too close to.

I just can't get the backhoe to fit in my backpack though.

It's this one. IIRC I bought mine at Menard's or Home Depot for $2.97 plus tax.

I think I will grab one. One nice thing is that plastic can be easily modified for specific occasions...

Thanks!!

I carry an East German Army surplus folding shovel/pick in my camper, a US Army folding aluminum shovel on my backpack, and a miniature folding (chinese made) shovel in my dayhiking pack.

I carry folding ss hand trowels in my and DW's GHB's and in DW's BoB.

I was really impressed with the winner of Alone season 3's choice and use of his multi-purpose shovel. I think it had a saw blade on one edge of the blade and the opposite side of the blade was sharpened to be used as a machete. He was very practiced with that tool as well.

There are different occasions for digging.

For backpacking/dayhiking I'll dig a cathole with my fixed blade knife.

I carry a Glock folding shovel in my Jeep at a bare minimum.

I carry a plastic snow shovel in the same jeep for winter.

For digging out sprinkler heads I use a metal trowel and a fixed blade knife.

When I was digging out roots left behind when a cottonwood was removed from the yard I used a full sized long handled shovel.

Would like to play with a backhoe sometime but haven't had the chance.

When I was a little kid I liked to dig a big hole and see how deep I could go. When it was about 3 feet deep my Mom would pay me to fill it in. And some time later I'd start digging again. Boys and puppies....

Another vote for the cold steel special forces shovel. In fact I have on in my car and I have gifted them to my wife, my brother, my sister in law, my mother, and my step father to keep in their cars.

Basically, if I plan to dig something, I bring a real shovel. The cold steel is for that time you don't plan on getting high centered on a snow bank...

Can get Russian Titanium versions of the Cold Steel SF shovel if looking for a lighter option.

http://www.survivalistboards.com/showthread.php?t=467849

Ran across the above link discussing Russian vs. Cold Steel versions; one post mentioned some Rusky shovels have titanium blades. One intriguing post mentioned using a long shovel handle in place of the original shorty; when not digging, the long shovel handle would make a good walking stick - intriguing notion.....

I'm amused by all the "combat effective" claims of these various tools. Marketing for the tough guys among us, I guess.

Generally things that are designed exclusively to be weapons work tons better than things that can be used as some sort of weapon in a pinch. Generally you do better with a weapon you know how to fight with (i.e., skill acquired from prior training) than with something you get from the internet -- even if the Spetsnaz can take down a whole battalion with it. You don't have the Spetsnaz training for that tool. So I wonder how these people are able to make the pronouncement that the shovel makes for a good "melee weapon."

Many soldiers in World War 1 preferred a sharpened shovel as a trench fighting weapon.
The biggest advantage I can see is that it is NOT a weapon. I'd like something to clear thorns when camping and a machete is going to get me arrested in England.

Reminds me; anyone know of any truly thornproof gloves?
qjs

From wild land fire fighting experience, a sharpened shovel is quite useful and versatile at weed whacking. Since the shovel blade is probably not some exotic super steel, you may have to sharpen it often, but a shovel can do a nice job of clearing small brush....

No good thought on thorn proof gloves- not sure there are any, short of medieval armor.

E-Tools have a long and distinguished history of being used as a weapon. It takes little training to hit someone with it. If the edge is sharp, it is that much more effective. That being said, I have not had the need to hit anyone with mine yet, but it digs very well.

“The Lake Wenatchee Trail Helper”

https://cattarp.files.wordpress.com/2015/01/0130151147-00.jpg

Really? Why then is Hennie Haynes allowed to sell them?

https://eur.heinnie.com/knives-and-tools/machetes

or

http://www.thebushcraftstore.co.uk/machetes-saws--tools-19-c.asp

Hey, I don't dispute the fact that you can used an improvised weapon to hurt somebody, even without any training. Heck, you can kill somebody even with a fountain pen. Let me repeat my comments in another way.

1. Which do you prefer in a life-or-death situation: the shovel, or a pistol with 15+1 rounds?

2. You have been training with a weapon for the last ten years (it can be a hand spear, knife, whatever). You haven't dug a day in your life. In a life-or-death situation, what would you prefer to have: the dedicated weapon you know well, or an improvised tool you've never touched?

If I were to happen upon some (human) predator, who would normally be prepared, I'd want a good plan and some good tools.

If the Spetsnaz had plans to use the shovel as a fighting tool, then they probably had specialized training to go with it. I don't think that sort of stuff is so hard to figure out if you had training with a weapon with a similar morphology. But most people haven't had that, and for them the marketing claims probably will stay just marketing claims. I'm waiting for the Montblanc Meistersück Tactical, used by the SAS in hand-to-hand fighting while looking good! For only $899.

No sane person would buy a shovel to use primarily as a personal defense weapon, it's a shovel. However, as an expedient PD tool in a situation where a small shovel is handy and the pistol with 15+ rounds is not, an E-tool or CS SF shovel might be a better option than a knife. It's definitely better than bare hands.

That said, the thread is about digging and I've yet to find a 15 round pistol that's useful for digging a hole in the ground bigger than .45". YMMV

I wrote:
> a machete is going to get me arrested in England.

Herman 30 wrote:

> Really? Why then is Hennie Haynes allowed to sell them?

My reply is:

Because uk offensive weapons legislation only covers public places.

qjs

In many cases it may be the shovel. Even if it is personal defence, the shovel may be what I actually have.


Humans have an innate ability to use clubs and similar devices as a weapon. That is not the case with firearms.
Not so long ago military service was mandatory for males around here. In the training the combat use of shovels was thaught. In the right service branch the grunts got more opportunity to dig holes than to handle a rifle.
In a fight I´d prefer the shovel over the knife any day. It´s simply more effective. The same is true for digging a hole.
I´ll agree with you that most of the civilian buyers of the Spetsnaz shovel wont even come close to use it in combat.

You don't describe the character of the life or death situation, so the category is wide open. In many LoD situations, a shovel would be much more appropriate - digging for avalanche or landslide victims, for instance, digging out a mired vehicle, and so on.

I am a firearms owner, and I have a hand gun with which I am quite familiar, but I have seem more critical situations in which the shovel would have been more useful, short of civil war or unrest.

I will admit that during the Rodney king riots of twenty-five years ago, I dusted off ol' Betsy, checked the loads, and was ready if civil unrest erupted in my neighborhood. Every twenty years or so, I have been really happy I was armed. Much more often I have been glad I was equipped with more mundane appliances in tight situations.

Of course, as an archaeologist, a shovel is a professional instrument.., put to use regularly.

The second link above included a summary of UK knife laws. Reading over that section briefly, it would appear that if you are engaged in an appropriate activity with the machete (or whatever), you would be just fine. it's when you walk into a bank or jewelry store with the machete that you get into trouble.

Any sentient LEO in any jurisdiction should alert when someone is toting something out of character with the surroundings or the ongoing activity...That's just good police work.

Of course. Otherwise any cop wanting to get his arrest record up, could simply wait outside kitchen appliance shops and grab anyone who'd bought a knife.
In the woods I'd probably be ok with a machete. The problem is getting there with it.
Actually I've never even seen forest workers here use machetes. Don't know what they do use.

qjs

They do not use machetes because machetes are a poor tool for forest work in our latitudes. They use axes or tools like that one:
http://www.stihl.de/STIHL-Produkte/Zubeh...zer-Gertel.aspx
The tool has a smaller edge angle than machetes and is used to cut bundles of brushwood.

Machetes work fine in temperate forests. It is mostly just custom. The hook on that tool probably is better for some types of cutting, sort of a cross between a sickle and a machete.

I tried to dig a hole with my Glock, it didn't do very well, lol. I did once dig a hole with an AT-4, but it wasn't very big, and it was very expensive.

> I've yet to find a 15 round pistol that's useful for digging a > hole in the ground

you aren't thinking laterally enough! :-)

https://youtu.be/l1711jiiRtM

qjs

That´s nice. In "The wages of fear" featuring Yves Montand the guy with the shovel wins. The scene is a little grafic and not family friendly so I´ll refrain from posting a link.