I have to disagree about the need to study one or more foreign languages. It was an entry requirement for college to have taken one semester of a foreign language in high school. It was of no use during college and has been of no benefit since. (This might be better over under Around the Campfire.)

I had 3 years of latin in my anglican school with a semester of greek. My great grandmother taught me enough gaelic to get in trouble and my aunt an equal dose of yiddish. Military service added tagalog and some russian. In college I picked up an american indian language for my degree. Was any of it worth it? I roomed with a greek lesbian who recited the Iliad in ancient greek over a bottle of Ouzo for me in a Northern California vineyard. Different languages and music are beautifull constructions with all the precision of mathematics. Maybe those slide rule jockies that used metric for one protocol and SAE for another should have communicated in french before sending that doomed probe on it's way. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I had just Got Done Posting a (Gracious <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) Reply here. Evidently this Happened at the Same Time this now New Thread, -was being Transferred to Campfire. I Began Doing so while still Under the Other Forum, Posted Correctly, Got the Submission Confirmed Message, Etc. Then, -Could Not Find it there, on that Forum! I Soon Looked to the Other Forum, -and Indeed, -Things were Tranferred there, -beginning with UT's Post. Except my Reply (Brief and Basic), was Not! It is Not on Either Forum! Though I Did Get a Submission Confirmation. Its Apparently Lost Somewhere in Cyberspace!

I Basically and Briefly Addressed both his Observation concerning the Campfire, -and his One on Language Learning in Itself. Both in Fact eventually Occurred to me, -Round the Tail End of Posting.

But as a Gal in my Life once Said, -I Hate to Have to Chew my Cabbage Twice!, -I Ain't Gonna Go Thru the Whole (Brief) Schmooe Again! At least Not Now or Yet!

But it Did Apparently Get Lost in Cyberspace somehow, -Probably by Virtue of Same Timing with a Forum Transfer that was Gong On. It Began on the One Forum, (UT's Post and my Response), and Brief Minutes Later, -It was on the Other.

Actually I'm in Favor of Such, and am <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> About This All Otherwise! As is Clear in my Lost Submission. Like I said though!, -I Certainly Don't now Feel Like Re-Constructively "Chewing my Cabbage Twice"!

So I'm now Mostly Inquiring About this Lost Submission Problem! Everything is <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />. [color:"black"] [/color] [email]UTAlumnus[/email]

I was Starting to Mention to UT, -Areas Where I Concur that Such could be of Little to No Use! But also Areas Where it Can be of Great Survival / Tight Spot Uses! Just Look at aardwolfe's Example earlier in the Thread!

But then my Brief and Basic Reply Post Got Lost in Cyberspace! During a Forum Transfer that was Simultaneously Going On! It's on Neither Forum, -Despite a Successful Submission Confirmation. As I said a Few Minutes Ago in another Post, -One Isn't in a Mood to Chew their Cabbage Twice!, -at such Moments!

Otherwise, -Everything of course Remains <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />!
[color:"black"] [/color] [email]Chris Kavanaugh[/email]

Besides English I know Polish, Russian, Slovak and a bit of Spanish. Slovak and Spanish was self thought. I think it is nice when you visit other country and are able to say something, introduce yourself and converse in the native language. It also helps me with my patients. I like to know things, I like to be informed... In the end it depends on your lifestyle and where you live. I agree with you on the point that instead of mendatory foreign language we all should have had an option in high school to study something different but we can say that about 50% of the education requirments. Why did I had to take art and paint pictures when art history would be more beneficial for somebody like me who has no talent? Why did I have to take guitar if I have no intrest in music? Why calculus when my strong point were humanities and I couldn't care less what volume triangle has when you rotate it around y axis. I can go on and on but your education is what you make out of it.

Matt

The object of education is not to teach you individual concepts, but to teach you to think. Some types of thinking can only be learned within a certain framework.

I was a hard-core science person most of my young life. During my first year of collage, I was required to take a humanities course. I had no interest in reading old Greek stories or French novels. However I was fortunate that the person teaching the introductory course was not the normal graduate student, but a full professor with almost 30 years of teaching experience. Later I found out she would comb thru the students records looking for hard-core science types and select some for a “special” course. She believed that to be a fully functioning, thinking person, one needed to have the broadest possible exposure to life.

At first I was force-fed books like the Iliad, and similar “old stories”, and she knew how to force. When we got to a point where we had a bit of the stories down, she began the “real” course. The stories were just a way to introduce another culture but the education was about “the human condition”. She introduced us to cultures that we could not have imagined and helped us to see the world from their view.

My brain exploded. We learned about cultures that had no leaders, yet functioned very well, cultures where everyone believed that they were gods, that all around them was what Christians would call heaven. Nature cultures and war cultures. Primitive and modern. I managed to work in one of her courses each semester as long as I was at that university. I might add that it was a state run school and I was on the GI Bill. No way I could have afforded college with out that.

Then there was the language requirement. I was a science major, why did I need a language. I chose Spanish only because I had a bit of exposure to it in Florida’s Cuban community. I managed to get through it, but it was of no “value”. I taught my daughter a few words and we had a bit of fun with it. Then she decided to take some time off after high school and travel. A year in Ecuador for her and several trips down for my wife and myself. I dusted off a poor skill and tried to live in a very different culture. Now I travel in Mexico without difficulty and my daughter works almost exclusively in Spanish, although she lives in Maine. This august, she will travel to Nicaragua to help war widows start a chicken farm. Why did I need to learn a language? There was no way to know when I did it, but it obviously had an impact on my life.

And one more. English Composition. ARRRGGhhhh! I had no use for it. But again, I found that there was value in things that I could not comprehend, until I had exposure to the subject. I later discovered that although my jobs were technical, communication of ideas was very important. Especially as I moved up in management. The ability to express my thoughts in a clear and concise way has greatly enhanced my ability to communicate my ideas to others. But it is not just a one-way thing. It has also helped me to understand others. I can probe around the ideas of others better, by being able to structure questions clearly and directly. I can get the information I desire, even if the speaker is prone to ”stream of consciousness” babble.

The point of all this is that there is a reason that educators have chosen specific required courses. You may not understand why, and in fact, they may do you no good. But you will get exposure to things that you would otherwise never experience. The courses are chosen in an attempt to give you a broader exposure to life. To make you think in ways you would otherwise avoid. What you do with that experience is up to you.

I will very quickly agree that a significant portion of higher education is to teach you how to learn. If I were going to be traveling abroad short term (like on vacation) two of the first purchases I would make would be a pronounciation/phrase guide and english-visited country dictionary. If it were to be for a longer period or to a non-tourist area, I would be looking to get some fluency in the local language.

Howdy, UT.

"Need" - probably not for most situations today.

But I think it offers much to the total education of everyone to learn enough of another language to at least puzzle out news articles, books, etc. I'm not what I consider fluent in any other language, but I get by in several because the two I seriously learned a million years ago are extendable to similar languages. The only things I would change are: 1) I wish I had been a better student in those studies and 2) I wish I used them more often than I do. Knowing enough to struggle thru simple conversations in other languages has been very valuable to me in real world situations - and it's polite.

So I guess I disagree with your postulate. Nomad's post is right on, especially the broader topic of well-rounded education. BTW, in my experiences so far, the pure hard-science types are fewer than the pure non-science types and the softheads are, well, softheads - very deficiently educated and very narrowly opinionated. Of course hardheads are, well, hardheads... undergraduate studies should be WELL rounded. "Specialization is for insects..."

I'm glad some of my corners and edges are at least radiused or chamfered...

Tom

Scott, please forgive if this is presumptuous, but I'm just curious. Per the conversation here, does your family language consist of something other than English? If so, do you mind sharing what it is? I was thinking you were perhaps of Iranian descent?

For others, here's a neat language reference tool: http://www.yourdictionary.com/languages.html

Why would you not want to learn other languages? I speak Russian, German, Chinese and Dutch, and can get by in Spanish, French, Bulgarian and Serbo-Croat.

Whenever I've traveled, it's been a pleasure to be able to communicate with people I wouldn't otherwise have been able to connect with.

Learning other languages also gives you a window into other cultures and ways of thinking. It opens access to additional literature, music and (as noted, and most importantly) people.

Personally, I can't possibly understand what the legitimate objection to a second language requirement in our schools could be. I can see plenty of good arguments in its favor.