I have to disagree about the need to study one or more foreign languages. It was an entry requirement for college to have taken one semester of a foreign language in high school. It was of no use during college and has been of no benefit since. (This might be better over under Around the Campfire.)

I had 3 years of latin in my anglican school with a semester of greek. My great grandmother taught me enough gaelic to get in trouble and my aunt an equal dose of yiddish. Military service added tagalog and some russian. In college I picked up an american indian language for my degree. Was any of it worth it? I roomed with a greek lesbian who recited the Iliad in ancient greek over a bottle of Ouzo for me in a Northern California vineyard. Different languages and music are beautifull constructions with all the precision of mathematics. Maybe those slide rule jockies that used metric for one protocol and SAE for another should have communicated in french before sending that doomed probe on it's way. <img src="/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I had just Got Done Posting a (Gracious <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) Reply here. Evidently this Happened at the Same Time this now New Thread, -was being Transferred to Campfire. I Began Doing so while still Under the Other Forum, Posted Correctly, Got the Submission Confirmed Message, Etc. Then, -Could Not Find it there, on that Forum! I Soon Looked to the Other Forum, -and Indeed, -Things were Tranferred there, -beginning with UT's Post. Except my Reply (Brief and Basic), was Not! It is Not on Either Forum! Though I Did Get a Submission Confirmation. Its Apparently Lost Somewhere in Cyberspace!

I Basically and Briefly Addressed both his Observation concerning the Campfire, -and his One on Language Learning in Itself. Both in Fact eventually Occurred to me, -Round the Tail End of Posting.

But as a Gal in my Life once Said, -I Hate to Have to Chew my Cabbage Twice!, -I Ain't Gonna Go Thru the Whole (Brief) Schmooe Again! At least Not Now or Yet!

But it Did Apparently Get Lost in Cyberspace somehow, -Probably by Virtue of Same Timing with a Forum Transfer that was Gong On. It Began on the One Forum, (UT's Post and my Response), and Brief Minutes Later, -It was on the Other.

Actually I'm in Favor of Such, and am <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> About This All Otherwise! As is Clear in my Lost Submission. Like I said though!, -I Certainly Don't now Feel Like Re-Constructively "Chewing my Cabbage Twice"!

So I'm now Mostly Inquiring About this Lost Submission Problem! Everything is <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />. [color:"black"] [/color] [email]UTAlumnus[/email]

I was Starting to Mention to UT, -Areas Where I Concur that Such could be of Little to No Use! But also Areas Where it Can be of Great Survival / Tight Spot Uses! Just Look at aardwolfe's Example earlier in the Thread!

But then my Brief and Basic Reply Post Got Lost in Cyberspace! During a Forum Transfer that was Simultaneously Going On! It's on Neither Forum, -Despite a Successful Submission Confirmation. As I said a Few Minutes Ago in another Post, -One Isn't in a Mood to Chew their Cabbage Twice!, -at such Moments!

Otherwise, -Everything of course Remains <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />!
[color:"black"] [/color] [email]Chris Kavanaugh[/email]

Besides English I know Polish, Russian, Slovak and a bit of Spanish. Slovak and Spanish was self thought. I think it is nice when you visit other country and are able to say something, introduce yourself and converse in the native language. It also helps me with my patients. I like to know things, I like to be informed... In the end it depends on your lifestyle and where you live. I agree with you on the point that instead of mendatory foreign language we all should have had an option in high school to study something different but we can say that about 50% of the education requirments. Why did I had to take art and paint pictures when art history would be more beneficial for somebody like me who has no talent? Why did I have to take guitar if I have no intrest in music? Why calculus when my strong point were humanities and I couldn't care less what volume triangle has when you rotate it around y axis. I can go on and on but your education is what you make out of it.

Matt

The object of education is not to teach you individual concepts, but to teach you to think. Some types of thinking can only be learned within a certain framework.

I was a hard-core science person most of my young life. During my first year of collage, I was required to take a humanities course. I had no interest in reading old Greek stories or French novels. However I was fortunate that the person teaching the introductory course was not the normal graduate student, but a full professor with almost 30 years of teaching experience. Later I found out she would comb thru the students records looking for hard-core science types and select some for a “special” course. She believed that to be a fully functioning, thinking person, one needed to have the broadest possible exposure to life.

At first I was force-fed books like the Iliad, and similar “old stories”, and she knew how to force. When we got to a point where we had a bit of the stories down, she began the “real” course. The stories were just a way to introduce another culture but the education was about “the human condition”. She introduced us to cultures that we could not have imagined and helped us to see the world from their view.

My brain exploded. We learned about cultures that had no leaders, yet functioned very well, cultures where everyone believed that they were gods, that all around them was what Christians would call heaven. Nature cultures and war cultures. Primitive and modern. I managed to work in one of her courses each semester as long as I was at that university. I might add that it was a state run school and I was on the GI Bill. No way I could have afforded college with out that.

Then there was the language requirement. I was a science major, why did I need a language. I chose Spanish only because I had a bit of exposure to it in Florida’s Cuban community. I managed to get through it, but it was of no “value”. I taught my daughter a few words and we had a bit of fun with it. Then she decided to take some time off after high school and travel. A year in Ecuador for her and several trips down for my wife and myself. I dusted off a poor skill and tried to live in a very different culture. Now I travel in Mexico without difficulty and my daughter works almost exclusively in Spanish, although she lives in Maine. This august, she will travel to Nicaragua to help war widows start a chicken farm. Why did I need to learn a language? There was no way to know when I did it, but it obviously had an impact on my life.

And one more. English Composition. ARRRGGhhhh! I had no use for it. But again, I found that there was value in things that I could not comprehend, until I had exposure to the subject. I later discovered that although my jobs were technical, communication of ideas was very important. Especially as I moved up in management. The ability to express my thoughts in a clear and concise way has greatly enhanced my ability to communicate my ideas to others. But it is not just a one-way thing. It has also helped me to understand others. I can probe around the ideas of others better, by being able to structure questions clearly and directly. I can get the information I desire, even if the speaker is prone to ”stream of consciousness” babble.

The point of all this is that there is a reason that educators have chosen specific required courses. You may not understand why, and in fact, they may do you no good. But you will get exposure to things that you would otherwise never experience. The courses are chosen in an attempt to give you a broader exposure to life. To make you think in ways you would otherwise avoid. What you do with that experience is up to you.

I will very quickly agree that a significant portion of higher education is to teach you how to learn. If I were going to be traveling abroad short term (like on vacation) two of the first purchases I would make would be a pronounciation/phrase guide and english-visited country dictionary. If it were to be for a longer period or to a non-tourist area, I would be looking to get some fluency in the local language.

Howdy, UT.

"Need" - probably not for most situations today.

But I think it offers much to the total education of everyone to learn enough of another language to at least puzzle out news articles, books, etc. I'm not what I consider fluent in any other language, but I get by in several because the two I seriously learned a million years ago are extendable to similar languages. The only things I would change are: 1) I wish I had been a better student in those studies and 2) I wish I used them more often than I do. Knowing enough to struggle thru simple conversations in other languages has been very valuable to me in real world situations - and it's polite.

So I guess I disagree with your postulate. Nomad's post is right on, especially the broader topic of well-rounded education. BTW, in my experiences so far, the pure hard-science types are fewer than the pure non-science types and the softheads are, well, softheads - very deficiently educated and very narrowly opinionated. Of course hardheads are, well, hardheads... undergraduate studies should be WELL rounded. "Specialization is for insects..."

I'm glad some of my corners and edges are at least radiused or chamfered...

Tom

Scott, please forgive if this is presumptuous, but I'm just curious. Per the conversation here, does your family language consist of something other than English? If so, do you mind sharing what it is? I was thinking you were perhaps of Iranian descent?

For others, here's a neat language reference tool: http://www.yourdictionary.com/languages.html

Why would you not want to learn other languages? I speak Russian, German, Chinese and Dutch, and can get by in Spanish, French, Bulgarian and Serbo-Croat.

Whenever I've traveled, it's been a pleasure to be able to communicate with people I wouldn't otherwise have been able to connect with.

Learning other languages also gives you a window into other cultures and ways of thinking. It opens access to additional literature, music and (as noted, and most importantly) people.

Personally, I can't possibly understand what the legitimate objection to a second language requirement in our schools could be. I can see plenty of good arguments in its favor.

If I have a use for a language, (work or travel) I wouldn't mind at all. At the time, our school system was set up with fewer sections per day to fit in required courses and any electives that we wished to take. With the courses that I had to take for college entry requirements, there were not many left to fit in true electives that would have allowed for a well rounded education rounded out with courses that I found interesting.

Except for a couple vacations down into the border states, I haven't had any real opportunities to use a second language. The volume of reading I do in my native language combined with continuing my education and my work keep me occupied with more than 24 hours in a day as it is.

Aw come on Robert:

You don't have to be shy on these types of forums as long as you are civil.

So Scott!, is it boxers or briefs?

Bountyhunter <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

No, -I'm Good Ole, Pure American English. In Language, and a Lot of my Personal Identification and Outlook. I'm of both Irish and Bavarian German Extraction, -with even a Small Amount of Native American Indian in me, -of which I'm kind of particularly Proud!

Found this out only about Two Years ago. I Know Not yet of What Tribe(s). Its Small though, -on the Order of 6 % or so. This has been Found and is Backed by both Standard Geneological Research, and a Basic DNA Test.

My Indian Side could Figure into my Great, Longstanding, and Special Love of the (Truly So Very) Great Outdoors! But I Like to Think I so Have it About me anyway! Even if I wouldn't have an Ounce of Native American Indian in me!

But No, -I am Not Persian / Iranian, Nor of some Other "Non-English Origined", Culture or Language. (Excepting my Euro-Indian).

I can See how the "Reza" in my Username could suggest Iranian. But it is Simply Not the Case!

I Simply Like the Name a Good Deal! This Iranian / Mideastern Name.

Its Not my Real Name, BTW. Nor is "Scott" or "Logan" Together they are just my Username here.

I've Mentioned my Identifying with and Admiring the Shah (In All his Many Positive Aspects), in a recent Post. Iranian he Happens to be. So this is One Reason I've Chosen it as Part of my Username. But Not the Only One.

For I just happen to Like and Identify with the Name Anyway! This Middle Eastern Guy's Name.

I like to Pronounce it as both (Reeza, -Rhyming with "Squeeze Ya"), and as (Rayza). Either Way Does Fine with me!

"Scott" is simply Long my Very Favorite Guy's First Name. I Think it Very Well and Closest, Describes the Real Me! And is the Guy's First Name I would Prefer to Have! If I could have Chosen at Birth, or Otherwise have my Druthers about it!

And it has to be "Scott" with Two T's! As the Name Usually and Conventionally is. "Scot" with only One "T", -would be Flat and Anticlimactic! And Not the Real Me! (Though "Scot" is Perfectly Fine for Positively Denoting the Scots and Things Scottish!).

And "Logan" is just by Far, -my Favorite Surname! It's a Very Outdoorsy Name! And I Feel and Know Myself to be Such a Very Outdoorsy Person! It Begins with an "L", -one of my Very Favorite Letters!

(My Top 5 are L / R / J / S / and M, -in that Descending Order. Though "L" and "R" are Co-Placing Number One Toss Ups, and "S" and "M" are Perhaps Co-Ranking Toss Ups too!).

(I See "R" as a Medium Briteish "Green" Letter, -and "L" as a Medium Brite "Yellow" Letter! Though I am Not particularly Synesthetic!).

It, "Logan", -Neatly has 5 Letters to it, -as does "Scott". It Too is a / the Surname that I would Preferentially Like to Have!

By and Large, -We're Usually Stuck with the Name we're Born With, -Like it or No! Its Often a "Family Passdown" Matter too! I Duly Respect That!

But Some Day, -when more Financially Able, -I'm Looking at Legally Changing my Name! To One that *Is* Sufficiently Me! It Won't Neccessarily be my Username.

I Personally Dislike Two of my Actual, Given Names, -and the Other One is Pretty Much just a So So One for me.

But "ScottRezaLogan" is Not my Actual Name, -but Only my Username here. And I'm Not "Iranian", Nor of Many Other "Foreign" Extraction. The "Reza" of it has Nothing to Do with Possibly, -from your View, -of my being Iranian. <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I Have Gotten Bitten by the Language Bug!, a Number of years ago.

Before then for Most of my Life, my Attitude toward Foreign Languages was, -"Foreign Languages, -Nice, -But English is Good Enough for me!" -With the Exception of my Long Beloved Spanish. But that too was Vastly on Inactive Status.

I am Seriously and Enjoyably Self Teaching myself a Number of them! Its a Labor of Love!, -and I Do Soak Them Up like a Sponge!

Its Both a Love and a Strong Suit, on the One Hand, -and an Income Oppurtunity and Marketable Skill on Another, -at One and the Same Time! I'm Looking at Getting Established in Such, in an Intermediate if Not Immeadiate Future. It's One of Those "I Think I Can Do This!", Kind of Things in Life! This is One Area I Aim to Set Roots Down Into!

It can of course have Great Survival and Preparedness Applications as well! It can so Come In Mighty Helpful and Handy! Regarding Survival and Getting Out of Tight Spots! And Getting Valuable Help and Information from the Locals and so on! Prices can Go Down in the Local Marketplace, Etc! Plus the Real, Quality Interaction with Such Locals, as Some have Mentioned. We Can Find Ourselves Stranded Anywhere in the World! And a Majority of that World Out There!, -Does Not Understand or Speak our own English!

So this Figures into Why I occassionally Touch on Foreign Languages and Linguistics, in some Posts. Including on their Great and Useful Applicability toward Survival!

Again, -Not Iranian here, -Nor a Natural Speaker of a "Non-English" Foreign Language! <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> [color:"black"] [/color] [email]gear_freak[/email]

I took Latin & French in highschool & Spanish in college. Found out I am "linguistically challenged". Must be one of those right brain-left brain things.
gino <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Linguistically challenged or not I have come to the conclusion the people of English speaking countries - or more precisely, the UK - are not challenged but lazy.
The reality hit home when I visited Holland and Germany. Nearly everyone I met, young or old could at the very least hold a basic conversation with me.
There are a few who refuse in principle to talk English to the English, (the French are famous in that respect) as in general, we have taken little or no time to try to learn thier language, and seem not even to make an attempt at it. In thier eyes (and I agree!) it is arrogance for us to assume that they can speak our language, whilst we make no attempt at thiers.
I do sympathise with thier cause, but I fear it will make little or no difference in the long run.
Finally, I'm no linguist either, but I do wish I had tried a little bit harder in my French and Latin classes at school though - C'est la vie <img src="/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Depend's, if your doing alot of travel or live in NYC <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I have to deal with Spanish{differant dialect's}, Russian ,Mandarin and Cantonese Chinese, Viet Nam, Jewish, Polish, ect,ect. you start to pick up some.One of the girl's is from Mexico and she already speak's Cantonese as her third langauge. The other's all speak Spanish, English, Mandarin, Cantonese and some village dialect's. Me, I am to old to learn compleat new stuff other than what i learned under The Corp's enforced wandering's around the world <img src="/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Scott, thank you for that thorough and interesting journey through the evolution of your username. I am fascinated by languages, though the only language which I can even remotely converse in besides English (and that is questionable at times), is Spanish. I'd love to be conversant in a non-Germanic/Romance language, such as, say Mandarin Chinese or Korean.

I have some small percentage (a sixteenth, I believe) of Creek Indian blood. I've really been remiss in investigating this more thoroughly.

A friend from Africa says that there, it is customary to speak the language of the person you are conversing with. For example if my native language is English and yours is French, then I would talk to you in French and you would talk to me in English. She said most people could speak 25 or more languages. Not dialects, but distinct languages. Boggles my mind.

She also says;
Speaks three languages = Tri-lingual.
Speaks two language = Bi-lingual
Speaks one language = American.

Hello. I Didn't Know till a little bit ago whether that Post of Mine "Took" to the Site or Not. (The one explaining the Evolution of my Username, in Answer to your Question). For I'd been Having Error Message Problems for about the Last Day. I had No Way of Knowing if it was Successfully Submitted. I can now See that it was. (I had used the Back Button towards making a Printout).

Another Post to UT Genuinely was Lost in Cyberspace somewhere! This Coincidentally Occurred when a Post of his was being Tranferred *to* this Forum. But a Later One to you *Did* Take!

NATIVE AMERICAN INDIANS-

We both Share some Native American Indian in us, -Having that in Common.

CHINESE And KOREAN / LANGUAGES-

A Few Words on Mandarin Chinese and Korean.

MANDARIN CHINESE-

"Everyone" Thinks of Mandarin or any Other Form of Chinese as Extraordinarily Hard! In some Partial Respects, -It is Quite Involved and a Challenge! But in Many Others, -It is Astonishingly Straightforward and Easy!

Two Chief Challenges or Difficulties are A), -The Characters. And B), -Whats known as the Tone System.

---CHINESE CHARACTERS-

Briefly and Basically, -Characters are just Pictorial Symbols for Given Words (and/or Syllables). It would be like if we Dreamt Up a Symbol, -for every given word of English. As Such, -They Don't have an Alphabet! My Mind was somewhat Blown the First Time I Heard that! Character Based Languages have Real Disadvantages!, -Along with some Advantages. Chinese has been a Developed Language for so Long, -that Elements once Making Sense, -Now Often has No Rhyme or Reason Pattern to it anymore! Similar to how our own English Spelling has Often Gotten Out of Whack! Many Other Languages have Far More Regular Spelling. Our Own English is one of the Harder World Languages!

Each Chinese Character Represents one Syllable. Many Chinese Words are of One Syllable / One Character Only, -At One Time All Chinese Words were so. Nowadays though, Many Chinese Words also are of Two or Three Syllables, More Rarely, of Four or even More. Such "Words" would be Shown as Two or Three Characters Next to one another.

Chinese and its Characters, however, -are Composed of Relatively Few Syllables. Far Less than the Amount we have in our own English. This is a Handicap for Chinese. It Doesn't Have to be that way. But Somewhere Back When, -China Developed only that many! It may have once Worked Fine! But its now Modern Times, -Not Earlier Historical Ones! And Thus Many More Words than Before. Characters Themself are Not the Problem here!, -Just Continueing to Try to Get By on rather Few Syllables is!

Characters are Composed of Two Elements. Part of the Character is What's Called the Radical. There are 214 Differnt Radicals in Mandarin Chinese. It would be like as if we had 214 Different Required Syllables in All of our English Words. For Example, -We might have 2,000 of our Words Requiring "Op" to be Attached, Another 1,500 Requiring "Kel", Another 4,000 Requiring "Lob" to be Attached, -and so on thruout All the Words of our Language! The Radical Looks Characterlike, as Does the Other Part of the Character. Originally and Long Ago, -Both Made Sense! Occassionally One More or Less Still Does, -but Often Anymore They No Longer Do! It Often now Comes Down to Just Memorizing them! As with Irreagular Verbs in French or Spanish, though, -There's little Tricks of the Trade! Some "Regularities Within the Irreagularities"!

Chinese has various Set Particularities for Actually Writing the Characters. Unusual for a Language, -the Script is Actually Artistic! And the Chinese Seriously View it as an Art.

However, With All Due Respect, -but also as a Practical Matter, -I'll Draw a Character "As I Obviously See it Looking Before me!" If it Looks like a Box above a Triangle!, -Thats How I'll Remember and Draw it! Many Characters can be so Drawn Easily Enuff, -Many Though, -are More Involved and Complex. Still my Method can Still Go Far! Even with Many of those More Complex Ones.

Why Does Chinese even have Characters?! Actually, Other Major Worlwide Languages of Antiquity had Characters. Or Pictorial Representations a Lot Like them! Ancient Egyptian, the Sumerian and Babylonian Languages, Etc, Etc. They however over Time had Gotten Away from that! Alphabets and Letters to Represent Sounds or Syllables have been Found in Many Respects, -to be So Much Better! China however Held On to it's Own! It Didn't Make such an Evolution or Change! For Better or Worse, -This is What Chinese Culture and Civilization had Decided. Its One of the Very Very Few Current World Languages yet Doing So! But it just happens to be by Far, -*the* Chief World Language! Via Virtue of Sheer Volume and Numbers.

A Romanization Scheme had been Worked Out, -the Pinyin System. But Beyond Such, -Chinese Words and Syllables are Composed of their Character Representations.

---TONES!-

The Other Major Difference and Difficulty with Mandarin and Other Forms of Chinese, -is the *Tone System*! The Relative Paucity of Syllables in Chinese, -Probably has a Lot to Do with this!

Basically, if we had Tones in English, -Which we Don't!, -Thank God! But if we Did, -Our Word "Box" might Mean Both "Box", "House", "Car", and "Tree"! -Depending on How you Say it! You might have to Say the First of these Four, -"Box", kinda Low and Flat! And That and Only That would Mean "Box"! Now if you Next Say that Same Word "Box", -but with a Rising Tone in your Voice, -It would Mean "House". If you then Say "Box" High and Flat, -that could Mean "Car". And if you then Say it in a Dipping, Falling Off Fashion, -the Word Still Spelled as "Box", -Would Here Mean "Tree"!

In a Nutshell, -Thats What Tones Are. Mandarin Chinese has Four of them! But thats Mild Compared with Cantonese / Southern Chinese, -which has Nine! Actually Tones Aren't so Hard as they at First Appear! Our Language is Full of Ruffly Similar Such. "Read" and "Reed", for example. Or "Lead" as to Lead People Down a Path, vs. "Lead" as in the Element that you Mine! These are No Insuperable Problem for Us! Tones Aren't Nearly so Difficult as they First Appear either. But in our example here, -you'd Have To Remember to Actually Say "Box" in these Four Different Ways! If you Want People to Think of a "Tree" when you Mean "Tree", or a "House" when you Mean "House"! We Have No Tones in our Own Language. Most Languages in Fact Don't. Tonal Languages are Rather Rare! But in Asking a Question, -or in Expressing Surprise or Emotion, -We Automatically Use Whats Actually a Tone! We Do so Naturally and Have No Problem with it! So Tones, -While New and Different!, -are Not Insuperably Difficult!

But Tones are a Must! In Mandarin, Thai, and Other Chinese Languages!

---CLASSIFIERS-

As are Something Called Classifiers! Arabic seems top also have Classifiers, -Only There I Think they Call them Collectives! Classifiers are Plenty Easier than Tones!

THE CHINESE "ROMANCE" LANGUAGES-

Mandarin, Cantonese, and the Other Six or so Major Chinese Dialects / Languages, -Compare in Similarity to One Another, -the Way Spanish, Italian, Portuguese, and French are variously Similar and Different from One Another. Or Say German, the Scandanavian Languages, and Dutch. Mandarin is of course by Far, -the Largest Chinese Language and the Standard!

SYLLABLE SHORTAGE And CHARACTERS AGAIN-

Its Not that Chinese Cannot Accommodate Many / and Larger Words! It is Very Perfectly Capable of that! Its just that its Shortage of Syllables, -and even Individual Characters!, -Often Makes Things More Difficult, than they'd Otherwise be!

MUCH SIMPLICITY TO CHINESE!-

Beyond Characters and Tones, -Much of Mandarin / Chinese is Very Straightforward and Simple!

DON'T NEED TO LEARN CHARACTERS!-

One Can Learn Only the Spoken Language and the Pinyin Romanization! One Does Not Neccessarily Need to Learn the Characters! The Same for Japanese and its Script!

I Suggest that you Take this Route, at least at First, -if Ever you Want to Take Up Mandarin Chinese! If Early or Anytime Later you Want to Tackle Characters, -Fine. But they are Not a Must! Tones however, Still Are! There's No Way Around them! They can Become a Lot Easier Once you Get a Little Used to them, though!

KOREAN-

Korean, now, is One I also Particularly Like! (Mandarin, -Not so Particularly! But it's Importance as a World Language, and Any Future "Rise of China" Matters as may be Coming, -Has Had me Up it a Few Notches, on my Scale!). Korean now is NOT a Tone Language! Its in No Way Related to Chinese! In Fact, its Very Radically Different! It has a Symbolic Alphabet and Script of it's Own, -but they are Not "Korean Characters"! It's Similar to How Greek or Rushan has a Radically Different Alphabet from Most of us Other Europeans! But Neither Greek nor Russian is a Character Language.

Now Korean, as Well as Japanese, -has Taken In and Adapted for it's Own Use, -Many Chinese Characters! Hundreds and More Years Ago. Thats just Because China was *the* Area's Developed Civilization back then! The Learned Scribes and Scholars were there! They Set the Standard! They were the Ones Others so Sought Out. Kind of Like How Ancient Greece and Rome, Set Many of our Own Standards. Korean and Japanese are a Mixture, -of their Own Scripts along with Such Borrowed Chinese Characters! *But in NO Other Way!, -are They Any Bit Related to Chinese!* That's similar to the "False Friends" aardwolfe Talked About, -Between our Own Western Languages. The Borrowing of Chinese Characters, is a Kind of False Appearing Friend! But They and Chinese are as Different as the Arctic and the Tropics!, from One Another!

Korean is Far More Akin, to Languages like Turkish and Finnish! Though even there, its Quite a Distant and Iffy "Relation". But this Further Shows it's Great Difference and Dis-Similarity from Chinese!

Korean has Taken In Not Only Many Old Chinese Characters, -but Many Chinese Words as Well! Still, -It's Otherwise Poles Apart!

Korean, though No Simple Language, -would be the Easier of the Two to Try Learning. If it's a Choice between Korean and Mandarin Chinese.

I'm Done for Now! [color:"black"] [/color] [email]gear_freak[/email]

Two Languages Better Than One to Keep Mind Young

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Two languages are better than one when it comes to keeping the brain young, Canadian researchers reported on Monday.

Older adults who grew up bilingual had quicker minds when tested than people who spoke only one language, the researchers found. They showed less of the natural decline associated with aging.

The tests of people who grew up speaking English and either Tamil or French suggested that having to juggle two languages keeps the brain elastic and may help prevent some of the mental slowing caused by age, the researchers said.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=st..._bilingual_dc_1

Time to elasticize my brain. Now, where are those Berlitz tapes...

During my high school days, in east of France, German was the "natural" second required language course.
But, despite many german speaking familly members, I never really used it/liked it. So, now, about the only thing I can say is "Entschuldigung, aber ich can nicht gut deutsch sprechen" ......
The other branch of my family came from Italy, but I never learned italian.
As a third language, later on, I choose English. Because.... I guess because it was the years of the Beattles and all you heard on the french radios were these english speaking singers....
And after high school, I kept English as my second language, while studying electronics.
The other students were not really interested in learning english, even if most of the components manufacturers' technical instructions were in that language....

Two years later, when applying for a job, apart from electronics, the mandatory demand was the ability to understand english, as the training was to be held in Germany (with english speaking instructors) or in the USA.
Among the dozen or so applicants, I was choosen : sure enough, some were better in electronics than I was, but they were unable to read a simple text in english.
And I then had the chance to spend three stays in Minneapolis, working for Control Data Corp.

When in Minneapolis, I had the pleasure of meeting a charming woman, whose mother was from french extraction. So we spend some time speaking about french history (making myself shamefull of not being more knowledgeable in that matter ...), among other things (on which I will NOT expand .... <img src="/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> )

During a short trip (at that time, US dollar was twice its present value, vs french franc ...) on the west coast, I had the opportunity to discuss french poetry with a Taco Bell employee ....
I also spend a nice evening, chatting with an american family, around a camp fire, in the Yosemite Park.

And right now, I am able to participate on this forum (even if I don't understand everything ... <img src="/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />).

All that, because one of my english teacher in high school had the good idea, in order to arouse our interest, to make us translate Leonard Cohen's songs !!!
I had no idea at that time, it would enable me to meet half of the world. <img src="/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I like many in the UK had to choose our subject options in our third of high school ( 11-16). I loved the sciences, Physics, Chemistry, Biology, I also knew at the time that I could get a bit overloaded so I chose French as an option to break up the routine. On the first day of my return to school my first class was French. I entered the class and straight away the teacher dismissed me as being inept to learn a foreign language.

I thought no more about it until a few years later at University I met a French girl, we became an item and after a few years we married. We were married in France and at that time my level of French was below basic, enough to say "Oui" to the priest. Well 5 years later on I'm working for a large international company where the conversation is in French, most of my correspondance is in English with Spanish, Portuguese, and Italian just to break up the monotony.

Did my schooling help me later, maybe yes maybe no, but thanks to learning another language has opened many doors. In professional terms dealing with foreign colleagues, I can always find one language as a common denominator to aid both communication and understanding.

I really wish I could go back to meet up with that French teacher, I know phrases now that would never be taught in Class <img src="/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

On Education, one quote from a former university professor whom I deeply respected and admired "Your degree only shows that you have the capacity to think". Some people can do an arts degree and think they can only do art, I did manufacturing, but since I've been a programmer, mechanical, I&E instrument, an electrical engineer and now an international sales engineer. Thanks to my education and the fact that this prof at least believed we are capable of doing anything we put our minds to.