Once again, the lesson is to try your gear.

This weekend I took a solo hike for exercise and for curiosity to see where the old logging road visible on Google Maps went to.

I programmed my GPS so I could be sure of being on the locations in the event that the ground signs were too subtle.
I hiked to 2 points. Less than half a mile from the car and perhaps 200' elevation gain I found a dead-end logging road that had nearly disappeared.
So I decided to climb to the top of the hill the road was on. Then I decided to follow the ridge to a saddle where I would join a trail that I've travelled many times. From there I went on to the favorite destination (an old B-17 crash site) where I rested for 20 minutes then returned to the saddle.

At this point I'd hiked 3 hours and gained 1000' elevation reaching 10,200'. Temperature was perhaps 55F with variable breeze in the trees. The saddle had some trees and pine needles and I decided I'd try setting up a poncho shelter for practice, like I'd seen on YouTube.

First discovery - the soil layer on my mountains is about one inch deep. This means putting in tent stakes requires trial and error to find a spot between rocks to get the stake in very far. (I already knew this from backpacking trips with real tents)

Second discovery - the pine needle layer is relatively thin. In a real bivy situation I'd have to gather many, many more needles for a decent insulating layer.

3rd discovery - the 15 year old I've been hiking with had spent some alone time * cutting my kit's ridgeline into 6" to 8" pieces and poorly melting the ends. So my paracord ridgeline (if needed) was a knotty mess if I were to tie the pieces together. Fortunately I had a roll of twine to use though I didn't setup using a ridgeline. (tried the plowpoint and the square-held-up-by-the-hood arrangements)

4th discovery- military poncho is too short to keep both head and feet under cover (I'm 5' 9") Even diagonal doesn't really work well.

5th discovery- Even after putting on a stocking cap, fleece shirt and a BDU coat, after lying down on the needles under the poncho, the air movement in the openings around the poncho made me COLD after about 10 min. I'd sweated up my clothes climbing and hiking and didn't change out of the damp clothes for this exercise. (With me I had a polypro long sleeve top I could have put on and removed my damp shirt. And I had rain pants and a plastic rain parka that also stayed in my pack. )


I did not do anything with fire as we have a burn ban in effect.

What did I learn? Poncho shelter would make for a really miserable night out unless a LOT more effort was put into getting dry and insulated. And if it's raining, you're going to be lying on your side with your legs curled up. Build padding accordingly. Maybe have a large trash bag designated for foot covering as they stick out in the cold/rain.

Need more practice with the poncho itself and have replaced the ridgeline material in my kit.

* Young man likes the woods but isn't fit enough to hike for long. He quit after 1 hour on two trips (yes, uphill). So on one trip I expected he'd quit. He did. So we cooked ramen for him to eat (he loves ramen!) and I left him with food, water, a poncho, my kit of stakes, pre-tied paracord loops for stakes&grommets, ridgecord and a roll of twine. Instructions were that if he wanted he could put up a poncho shelter. Feel free to cut the TWINE as you desire. I went on up the mountain and returned 2 hours later. Found him asleep rolled in the poncho. No shelter assembled. No words about what he'd done to my cordage. Found the damage on this last trip.

His stepdad says that's what he does. Tell him he can do something - he won't do it. Tell him he can't do something, and he'll find a way to do it even if it means getting in trouble when found out.

My lesson- check your gear carefully after someone (especially that young fellow) hands it back.

So no sleepingbag, blanket or anything?

I hate to carry too much stuff, but a good mat, sleeping bag and a form of shelter is just mandatory for a good night sleep. Can't do things effectively without sleep, so the weight of proper sleeping gear are worth it.

This was a minimal test of my just-in-case gear. I've carried a poncho for decades as part of my dayhiking loadout with the utility of having it as raingear as well as the theoretical use for expedient shelter. My backpack trips (many, many) have had mat, bag, tent and stove for hot food - so were all comfy and controlled.

Mostly I wanted to try out stringing up a poncho in terrain I hike in (not my backyard). But I sort of expected more "shelter" payoff for the effort when instead I just had a lesson in how much more must be carried or prepared in order to have a survivable night out in the altitudes and terrain I hike in.

Again, you really need to try your stuff out to consider yourself educated.

You know what they say about experience being a hard teacher - she gives the test first and the lesson afterwards.

There is no substitute for hands-on knowledge. Kudos for giving it a try, sounds like you learned a couple of lessons there. Don't be too hard on yourself though - and don't give up the concept of the poncho shelter just yet. To be fair, I think your expectations of the military poncho lean-to may have been a little unrealistic.

The good old poncho lean-to does work well for what it is, and within its own set of limitations. You will find it depicted in just about any survival manual (for a good reason I suppose) even though of late it seems to be getting a little less popular.

For all its limitations, the poncho lean-to happens to be the type of shelter that I use most of the time. I've spent a good number of (surprisingly comfortable) nights under one. From the Highlands of Scotland where it kept me dry from an endless downpour, to the open desert, the Alps in wintertime (with snow cover and well below freezing) to temperate woodland, which is my primary environment.

To make it work properly though, you have to keep in mind that the poncho lean-to is not a complete shelter per se. It only achieves two things when constructed properly: it will keep you dry and (mostly) protected from wind. With improper construction and placement though your lean-to is likely to fail even at those two basic aims.

Not all ponchos are created equal. My go-to model is a cheap German army poncho made of some kind of stury OD synthetic fabric (vinyl IIRC). I've used it for almost 15 years and it's still going strong. It's long enough to keep me fully under cover, and I'm 6'2". In a pinch it could even accomodate two people as long as you don't mind huddling together. If you look around and try different models I'm sure you could find a surplus or civilian poncho that would suit your needs.

Your poncho is nothing more than a roof. Whether you opt for a simple single-sloped lean-to or a double-pitched A-frame - do make sure you pick a good spot sheltered from the wind. Preferably in a small hollow or natural depression, with your back to a large log or boulder, etc. Place the entrance away/perpendicular to the prevailing wind direction.

In cold weather extra ground insulation is a must. Even in a pine forest the existing layer of needles compacted on the ground is generally inadequate to guarantee a good night's rest. Make a bough bed if at all possible. If unavailable, look for dry grass, leaves and moss. In any case, strive to create a springy raised matress to get your body at least 3 to 4 inches above ground level.

A simple double-pitched lean-to is not the best choice in cold, windy and/or rainy weather because it's open on two ends. If no better option is at hand you can make your shelter much warmer by lowering the back end of the shelter as far toward the ground as practical. You can further enclose it with a backpack if you carry one, it will also make a decent makeshift pillow.

If the conditions are really horrible you could opt for some other type of shelter entirely, such as a debris hut and use the poncho only for the outer layer to keep you dry. And don't forget that fire will make all the difference. Ideally facing the entrance of your shelter, with a reflective screen behind if possible.

I need to add a poncho to my kit. What criteria should I be looking for other than a sheet of waterproof plastic? Can anyone point me to a few good links? (Not sure whether there is a surplus store near me.)

Cheap plastic or vinyl might be fine. I got mine from CAMPMOR years back.

I'm using a US issue type poncho. The material is very strong so it hasn't suffered from punctures even when bushwhacking. (it rides on the outside of my daypack)
I've also carried it as part of my in-case-of-snakebite gear when out with a group in rattlesnake country- makeshift litter for a victim.

But it's not as light as other products.

If I could change one thing I'd make it longer which would make it work better as rain gear and as a shelter.

I am a big fan ponchos. Serving 24 years in Airborne Infantry and Special Forces, I have spent literally months, or even years, living in poncho hooches. Their versatility as rain gear, shelter, and emergency litter make them a valuable piece of gear.

As for criteria, the usual attributes of size and weight are a factor, and the material they are made of affects the weight most of all. The military issue ones are not the lightest, but are durable. I currently carry a Sea to Summit soil-nylon poncho. The dimensions are greater and it is light and packs small, but it is not cheap.

As for making a shelter with a poncho, there are so many ways. With a single poncho, the lower to the ground, the drier and warmer you will be. There is that inconvenience of getting in and out though. I used to carry 2 ponchos, as the military ones snap together and can make a larger shelter, drier and easier to get into along with your gear. You do need to tie up the hoods to make sure they do not allow water in. It helps if you then guy them out so they do not form a depression in your shelter that catches water. The ends will be open, but can be blocked with gear or natural material if that is available.

Ponchos are used much like tarps. Tarps can't be worn as rain gear, but they are essentially the same in making shelters. Any guide for making tarp shelters will be useful for poncho shelters.

Some pieces of kit that I would never have considered going into the woods without when I was in the Army:

Poncho

Canteen Cup

Canteen

Knife/tool

550 cord

I,too,have spent many comfortable nights under a poncho/tarp rig and they can work quite well if properly rigged. Size matters.

I often carry a light weight tarp fashioned from painter's tarp material which is light but not all that durable. This works well in situations where I find the poncho cumbersome (thick brush, technical climbing terrain, etc) and I don some sort of rain suit.

I like Montanero's list of essentials. Throw in a Bic, a small flashlight/headlamp, and a bit of FAK - you are good to go.

Bottom line - there are few pieces of gear more versatile than a poncho...

Wise words, unimogbert, and good on ya for getting out there and forcing theory and reality to meet. So many of us carry stuff that we don't really know how to use. That's gonna suck in an emergency! Practice. Practice. Practice. Even if it's in your backyard. Try different conditions - wind, rain, hot, cold, dark, injured.... and practice in the environments you'd expect to have one of those emergency situations in.

You Tube has a way of making me think that things are easier than they really are. So many people cut out to flubs, fumbles and frustrations in their videos. It makes it hard to get a real sense of what it's actually like unless you try it yourself. The first time I tried a ferro rod, for example, I thought it was going to be so easy because all survival gurus on tv and the Tube make it look that way. It is easy for me now, but after LOTS of practice. The same goes for shelter building. Even with an instant roof or floor provided by a poncho or tarp, it still takes a lot of work and time to make a good shelter.

EDIT to add: What are you using for your paracord ridgeline? Is it a braid?

Indeed the Sea to Summit poncho is expensive: the Ultra-Sil NanoTarp Poncho is nearly $100 on Amazon --

https://www.amazon.com/Sea-to-Summit-Ult...2C63CJF3B9QSDR8

I'm not a big fan of ponchos, but I really like tarps. It seems to me that people are attracted to ponchos because they appear (in theory) to be a multi-use item, which can serve as both raingear and shelter.

Regarding ponchos as rain gear, I find that in the terrain and conditions I often operate in they don't really work very well. In particular, they are very poor in windy weather. Also, as hikermor notes, they don't work well in brush, or any sort of rough terrain. I flat will not rely on a poncho as my primary weather protection. A proper weather resistant jacket, cut roomy enough to wear over insulation is a vastly superior choice, in my opinion. Add rain pants for very wet weather.

For shelter, as unimogbert found out, most ponchos are too small to rig very well. One could make a bigger poncho, but that would make it even more of a hassle as rain gear, at least in the wind. One could put two ponchos together as Montanaro suggests, but that requires carrying even more stuff.

A small, light weight tarp makes a much better shelter, in my opinion. Lots of option in how you rig it. If two of you are together, you can put one tarp under as a ground cloth, and rig one over you as a shelter.

EDIT: I should add that I mostly carry the tarp only for SAR missions. Besides emergency shelter, a tarp can be rigged in various ways to serve as a litter, or as a toboggan to drag an injured person on the snow.

For casual day hiking, I don't generally carry the tarp. Instead I always have a SOL Emergency Bivy stashed in the bottom of my pack. It only $17, weighs 3.8 oz (108 gram), and takes up a tiny volume in my pack. It, together with proper clothing, will get me through the night.

That's my view, for whatever it's worth. As always, others may have different opinions and find other solutions.

I used poncho shelters for years but have changed to a tarp which is a bit bigger and means i have more chance of finding comfortable ground between 2 trees. But it still means I have to lower it to keep dry if the rain is coming down at an angle.

The DD Hammocks tarp comes in different sizes. The 3x3 metre one is big enough to make a centre pole tent.
I'll be getting one soon. Everything I've bought from them has been very good so far.

https://youtu.be/yMAtpWQdVbY

You find what works for you, and you use it. As to the point of the original post, practice what you plan to use. In my opinion, you need to be able to set up you shelter in the dark and in bad weather, with your fingers numb from the cold. The real difficulty for most people is tying the knots and figuring out how to set one up in a variety of situations. Practice, practice, practice. Whatever you use, be able to use it well.

Many new materials allow tarps to be much lighter and to pack smaller. You can find reasonably priced tarps that pack small and provide you a more substantial shelter. I think that a good size tarp will make a better shelter than a poncho, if you have one.

Sil nylon is expensive, but packs small and is light. You can go to a hardware store and get tyvek or other materials and make an improvised tarp for little money. You can get a good sized sheet of plastic and do the same thing. Shelter from the elements is a critical survival skill and if you plan to go out, you need to have something that you know how to use.

As examples of the tarp Montanero mentions, check the price of the 8 x 10 Sil/Nylon Ultralight Tarp at $99.99, weighing all of 13 ounces, versus 8 x 10 urethane coated taffeta nylon tarp at $44.99, weighing 22.5 ounces.

The ultralight tarp lighter, but is it light enough to justify twice the price and does silicone impregnated ripstop nylon make a better shelter than urethane coated taffeta nylon? It's a trade-off of cost and performance -- but how you measure performance? The ultralight hiker may measure performance by weight alone. Another hiker in PNW may measure performance by how well the tarp keeps him dry. Another hiker may decide they're both too expensive.

Me? I bought one of the smaller Sil/Nylon Ultralight Tarps to store in my GHB -- it packs really small and weighs 9 ounces. I also bought a larger urethane coated nylon tarp to actually use, bigger and heavier but I don't carry it. (paracord is your friend)

CampMor nylon tarps

Fortunately our thoughtful, considerate retail establishments have set a well stocked table for tarp afficionados. Just look at the selection from REI - from $5 to $300 (reduced from $400) and this doesn't include some of the more specialized,exotic products available elsewhere.


www.rei.com/search.html?q=tarps&pagesize=90&ir=q%3Atarps&page=1


Can't get this link to work but go to their site and you will see the selection.

When all is said and done, a nice overhanging rock shelter or similar is equal or better to anything you can bring with you, whatever the weight or cost.

I've got one of those AMK SOL Emergency bivvy's in my day hike pack too, along with a 2 person Heat Sheets blanket and a ripstop poncho. The SOLs are in a ziplock bag in the bottom of my pack along with a big black garbage bag. The poncho stays in the top rear of the pack for easy access, along with a hank of paracord, for just in case I need to get out of the weather quickly.

Clothing is our first shelter. Dedicated wet/cold wear and a change of clothes is a must when the forecast and season dictates. Dress for the worst and hope for the best.

Yes, not all poncho are equal, and practice makes perfect
Always kept in my bag a small plastic poncho, until one day had to go through a sudden big storm. So, decided to make a criteria list, and got the Snugpak Patrol Poncho The criterial list included:
1) 100% waterproof (of course)
2) easy to carry and have on-hand in case the storm is sudden
3) large enough to cover the backpack and also let the water drips below knees
4) adjustable hood
5) can be used as a temporary bivvi
6) front pocket
Oh! and of course, not too expensive

My raingear of choice has been hardshell jackets. My packs tend to be waterproof so I'm less likely to need to cover them. A hardshell doesn't work for a bivvy but I have used them many times as the wind-and-water-proof outer layer that let my insulation layers work, down to Real Darn Cold.

Well said, spoken from experience. Couldn't agree more.

Personally, I like both tarps and ponchos. But when hiking solo I will always pick a poncho over a small tarp. It's basically the same thing but can be worn on one's person whereas a tarp is less versatile in that department.

I don't find a poncho all that cumbersome even in heavy brush. Tie it around your waist to keep it from getting caught in the branches and it will do just fine. Rain jackets generally fit more snugly but very few are as durable as a good military poncho. None can be used to make a rain shelter that will keep you dry in a hard downpour.

Anyone looking for a good military poncho should give the Bundeswehr/German army pattern a try. it's very generously sized (about 80" in length!) and is provided with a couple of sturdy waist straps. This is what I've used for the last 15 years and I can't recommend it enough. It's also part of my BOB and one of the very few items of gear that I'd ever leave behind before going on a long trek.

http://www.surplusandoutdoors.com/poncho-german-bundeswehr-bw-military-321528.html

As you and Montanero said, one finds whatever works for oneself.

However, regarding ".............. I will always pick a poncho over a small tarp. It's basically the same thing but can be worn on one's person whereas a tarp is less versatile in that department." My point is if I have appropriate foul weather gear (a good jacket and pants), I have no need to wear the tarp on my person. And when I rig the tarp as a shelter, I can still wear my jacket for additional warmth and protection, whereas if I rig my poncho as a shelter, I can no longer wear it!

Regarding ponchos in heavy brush, I guess there is brush and then there is brush. My experience is that ponchos do get in the way, even when tied around the waist. Ponchos are even more of a hassle when climbing over downed logs, up rocks, or other difficult terrain. Ponchos are also a big problem in strong and gusty winds. They turn you into a big sail. I would not want to be wearing a poncho while walking up an exposed ridge in a strong wind! The wind also blows rain up underneath the poncho and in around your arms. Tying the poncho around you mitigates those issues somewhat, but a properly fitted jacket (and pants) is always superior in those situations.

I also think you overstate the durability issue. A good hard shell jacket designed for technical climbing is extremely durable. I have a Marmot jacket I acquired around 1995. At the time it was their top of the line technical jacket. I only recently replaced it for general use with a new one from Arc'teryx. The Marmot is a bit beat up but still quite functional. I now use it mostly for dirty nasty outside jobs around the home. Otherwise it rides in an emergency bag in my car.

I live, work, and play in a region with highly variable and sometimes extreme weather. Outer clothing for protection from wind, rain, and snow is something I will not compromise on.

Sure enough, as long as you don't mind the extra bulk and weight of the tarp + rain jacket & pants combo. I generally prefer to travel as light as possible so I try to keep my gear to a minimum.

I also dislike sleeping in any sort of rain gear because I tend to sweat easily (Goretex or no Goretex) and moisture buildup becomes a problem. I usually bring along a sleeping bag or at least a heavy wool blanket whenever I intend to spend the night outdoors. Wearing a rain jacket while tucked in a sleeping bag is not a good idea IME.



To each his own. We have some pretty bad brush around here, it's very hard on the gear. No rain jacket I've ever worn in that kind of situation survived reasonably intact for more than a few treks. A flimsy plastic poncho wouldn't last long either, but a heavy duty one like the Bundeswehr model does stand up to abuse very well.

I'm sure a good hard shell jacket for technical climbing would be a smart choice in many situations. But I simply can't justify that kind of expense for an item of clothing that will get abused in short order. Honestly speaking, a proper climbing jacket costs a lot more than all my regular outdoor gear and clothing that I use on my treks. On the other hand, a good military poncho can be bought for $20, so for reasons of economy alone it's an idea worth considering.

YMMV - stay strong and enjoy the great outdoors!

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
I will however respond to a couple of your comments. Well, if you carry a blanket or sleeping bag, that hardly counts as going "as light as possible", does it? My jacket and pants together weigh less than your blanket.

In any case, I thought we were talking about an emergency night out, not a planned camping trip. I don't recall ever spending a night sleeping in my rain gear inside a sleeping bag!

I think you underestimate good modern gear. The good stuff will take a great deal of abuse, for a long time. Top line gear is expensive, no doubt about it. I find it worth it.
Likewise to you!

When i started out in the outdoors I was pretty cheap on my clothing, but after years of spending time in the outdoors and mountains, I find that proper clothing makes a huge difference and it's worth the money. Do note that more expensive does not mean better, some cheaper brands can have very good clothing too.

Proper clothing that is well ventilated and prevents excesive sweating and wicks away/dry sweat quickly makes a huge difference in how it keeps you warm. I prefer synthetic materials as they dry quickly and are light weight. Mesh, breathable panels and vents are great in making clothing adaptable.

A down jacket services as a good compact and light weight option in case it's colder than expected and is your emergency insulator when you need to sleep. In some cases I replace it with a good microfleece, as that give me a little beter freedom of movement. Put your legs/feet in your backpack to keep those warmer. My clothing is sized that I can put on all my layers on top of each other when needed.

My emergency sleep system is a down jacket + bivvy + handwarmers.

Poncho's just don't work for me as rain gear, catches too much wind and can't see where you are walking properly.

This is probably getting a little off-topic, but generally speaking I think we spend too much time obsessing over our gear and looking for new tools, gadgets, superior clothing and whatnot in the expectation they will provide some sort of crucial advantage. More often than not though, that entails spending a lot of money for relatively little positive return. It also tends to distract one from the real goal, whether that means accomplishing some particular task or simply having a good time out in the bush. At worst, it might lead to a psychological dependency, a feel of being unable to perform without "proper" gear.

Maybe it's just my observation but I've noticed that many people these days worry a lot about the supposed limitations of their gear instead of trying actively to develop useful skills or solutions to overcome those limitations, whether real or imagined. The current discussion is a small case in point. One might focus ad nauseam on the weaknesses of a poncho in a given situation, but it might be more productive instead to think about how to exploit its strengths so that it could be made to work, and work well, just as it has for many people for a long time. Which does not by any chance mean that there are no other alternatives worth exploring but simply that in many kinds of environment a decent poncho can perform very well despite its low price and old-school approach.

It's a bit like the classic knife debate - for every outdoorsman happily getting by with a $10 Mora you will find someone cringing at the thought of relying on a cheap rat-tail knife which obviously pales in a comparison to a $500 certified custom Ray Mears bushcraft model. Yet at the end of the day, the folks relying on relatively simple tried-and-true gear often accomplish more than those forever in pursuit of the latest tech. IMHO it's ultimately a matter of cultivating a certain mindset.

I will be the first to admit that quality gear does make a difference, but not nearly as much as practical experience, skills and mindset. I have a closet full of outdoor gear and clothing, some of it pretty expensive. But over the years I've found myself reducing the gear I use regularly to a basic minimum not that different from what has worked for the old-timers since the dawn of time. There is the advantage of modern materials to be sure - rubberized ponchos vs. waxed linen fabric or wool, carbon steel knives vs. flint and obsidian, but the basic concepts remain the same and probably always will.

I find that using primarily inexpensive, easily replaced (but still good quality) gear and clothing detracts absolutely nothing from my outdoor experience. One doesn't necessarily need the latest tech and high-end gadgets to enjoy the great outdoors. Others may feel differently - different strokes for different folks. It's all about finding out what works for you.

I've found the poncho useful as the upper half of raingear. It breathes better than a rain parka and has worked well for where I've been. The parka is definitely the better choice up on a windy tundra ridge though.

It might be ironic but I'm presently reading the daily journals of Lewis & Clark. Those men endured in wet leather clothing huddled under wet elkskins. In those conditions I'd probably cry like a little girl.......

Meantime I'll make the effort to do more practice with my poncho shelter kit. But not in the backyard because that's not where I'm likely to really need it.

Well said.

Yep, practise helps you KNOW your gear.

I too was out walking and trying out some gear. Last Saturday, I was out in a steady drizzle with my new sil-nylon poncho tarp that I wanted to try out. Note: I normally use a goretex shell and rainpants as needed for camping/hiking. This was in a no camping wildlife area nearby so I was just out for a short walk. I purposely did not take along a hat. I wore simple lightweight pants, socks and trail shoes, medium weight merino wool long sleeve shirt and cotton vest underneath the poncho along with a lightweight buff around the neck. No pack. Temps were about 11-12 degrees Celsius with 20k winds.

After a minute of figuring out the snaps and where to put my arms I strode off for the 2k walk. When I got back to the vehicle I evaluated.
1. A hat, any hat but a wide brimmed hat especially would have been a welcome addition. I often use my Tilley hat with my rain shell because I don't like closing the hood. I prefer the visibility and ventilation of an open hood. As such without a hat, the poncho hood managed to stay in place most of the time but occasionally slid forward and covered too much of my eyes.
2. I wondered what would work best if I were to use this as a shelter. How would I seal the hood from dripping rain onto me? Simply cinching the hood would not suffice - perhaps I should attach/pack a ranger band along with the poncho?!
3. My lower arms, wrists and hands got wet. That means my long sleeves were wet and would take a while to dry out. Perhaps I should have pulled my arms inside the poncho, eh?
4. My poncho/tarp has an elastic cinch along the bottom rear edge. The elastic snagged on a branch and pulled it partially out.
5. Aside from my lower arms, wrists and hands the rest of my was quite dry. I was able to ventilate and not have sweat build up like I would in heavy rain gear. In a sense I was even more comfortable and flexible than using a goretex shell, however even with goretex a long rain would eventually soak through. The wind did not seem to drive any moisture through the "sleeves" of the poncho and my legs were dryer than if I had wore a jacket. I could easily have wrapped some cordage around my waist it the poncho was billowing too much but didn't have to.
6. I was able to shake off the moisture and hang the poncho/tarp up to dry when I got home so I didn't evaluate its drying ability in the outdoors.
7. It is a compact and lightweight alternative to a goretex shell (about 1/2 size & weight) and I will likely pack it in my day pack. And obviously I will take it to my next 'Riders' football game! The green poncho blends perfectly with the team colours.
8. I do however question the rationale of the dual usage of a poncho/tarp for some conditions. If the rain is start/stop and gives you time to set up that might be fine. If it is raining continuously and if this my only shelter how can I set this up as a tarp and stay dry at the same time? By bringing another shelter? (Bivy bag, 2nd tarp or even tent?) Not very practical as a one item doing double duty, but then again, on the dry prairies I may not have as much need to use it as a poncho.
9. I did not attach cords for use as a tarp shelter but if I did, I would probably use something like triptease for visibility rather than black tarred bankline. But that brings me to my next point - should I keep the cords attached and remove as necessary for a poncho or keep them on to use for the shelter? I can keep the cords stashed in the same silnylon ditty bag but not too much length. And I would need to keep stakes separately since there is no way the bag has enough room for them.

Like unimogbert, I too share the same thoughts about knowing your gear, understanding its limitations. Mostly by doing exactly what we did - using the gear in known comfortable conditions first, then expanding out and testing the gear in lesser conditions before finally settling in determining how it matches your skill set. But unlike unimogbert, I don't have kids that I can do a lessons learned post trip examination.

Yup, my experience as well.



On most military ponchos the hood can be sealed tight more or less with the drawstring, then buttoned down for a tight fit. I've never had a problem with my shelter leaking through the hood providing the above steps are carried out with a little care.



Yes.



In the ideal world you'd be carrying a full complement of rain gear, poncho + sleeping bag, bivy, maybe even a tent. In the real world, you end up with whatever you have at hand. It might not be as comfortable but heck, that's life. The poncho shelter is a minimalist solution as opposed to something more elaborate, say a tent, log cabin, luxury trailer. The latter are all more comfortable than a poncho shelter per se.

On a more serious note though, it IS possible to set up a poncho shelter very quickly if you know what you're doing. That would limit the amount of exposure down to maybe a couple of minutes at most, probably less. Again, practice is key.



I use ordinary white shoelaces tied to each of the three grommets per side. It works fine and allows me to set up my shelter very quickly if need be without looking for extra cords.

You may not even need cordage to secure the poncho. Small L-shaped stakes can be carved easily from hazel branches or the like and planted into the ground directly through the grommets.

I carry loops of 550 cord and 4 L shaped aluminum tent stakes as part of my poncho-bivy kit. The kid cut up my 550 ridgeline so I've replaced that.

My GHB gear contains the same stuff though the ponchos are Swiss army alpenflage.

I've carried a poncho in addition to raingear and tent and sleeping bag on backpacking trips. Have huddled under it with my buddy as we endured a hailstorm up on a tundra ridge. Have thrown it across pine tree branches so it served as a shelter to eat in when it was raining at dinner time. I've put on my warm clothes and poncho and leaned up against a tree stump to wait out a passing thunderstorm ducking into the poncho to rummage in my pack for a snack. Have worn it as upper covering while hiking in a surprise spring snowstorm. Many uses over the years.

Poncho has been good gear in many circumstances. But the shelter application needs more work on my part to make it anything more than just a waterproof blanket.

One of my scenarios is that I am immobilized for some reason (broken ankle) and have to spend the night out for that reason. Immobility would be a real problem as it impedes choosing a good location, finding insulation and getting a really good poncho setup. Best answer for this is - don't get hurt!

A poncho can be used as your primary shelter and rain gear, but it is not the BEST solution. It is versatile piece of gear, but specialized gear is better. In the Army, we did not move around wearing a poncho, it is not "tactical". We got wet, and you could wear the poncho when stationary. I think I used it more to cover my gear than to cover me. So I did not bust brush wearing a poncho, and as AKSAR says, that would be difficult, and noisy. We did not even wear rain jackets or pants when moving tactically. You got wet, it was uncomfortable, and you dried out later, if possible. Only in more extreme winter conditions did you wear more and try to stay dry, because your life depended on it in those conditions. The coldest I have ever been was actually in the mountains in Latin America, in the rain and with a high temperature of about 40 degrees F. in a tactical situation. Once I could, I wrapped in a poncho and poncho liner and buried myself in grass and leaves. I did not die of hypothermia, but I was not cozy either.

A poncho works for times when you have to choose one piece of gear to perform the functions of rain protection and shelter. It is also a decent ground sheet. I recommend a poncho as a part of a basic kit for a day hike, backpacking in general and especially for kids. A brightly colored poncho is good shelter, weather protection and makes them more visible. Psychologically it helps to keep them in one place and together as they like to put more than one kid under the poncho.

When tying off the hood to make a shelter (or poncho hooch in the military slang), I would pull the draw string tight, twist the hood and then fold it over. Use the draw string to wrap tightly around the folded portion, and I would use a simple half hitch to secure it as that comes out easily. The draw string also serves as place to tie a cord to to pull the center out a bit to make it more stable and not collect water in a depression around the hood. Without trees around, you need poles to set up a poncho hooch, which would make me lean toward carrying a small tent as well. The tent for me and the poncho for my gear.

You can use small S-Biners or some such device that is easily removable to attach the cord to the grommets. It would be difficult to walk with those cords hanging all over the place, and they will not stay tied when walking through the brush. I used to use a simple bowline, but that can be a little difficult to untie in some circumstances.

Thanks for the advice. I hope to put it to use before the snow flies (which unfortunately might be tomorrow!)

can you add a bit of fabric to each end?

Related: What is the best size foe a lightweight tarp? ( for cooking under and shelter) 9" 12"?