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#28218 - 06/10/04 06:49 AM Urban Survival Question
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hello. As a Californian, I'm prepared for earthquakes, floods and even the odd tornado (we do get them near where I live). What flummoxes me is preparing for difficulties caused by sabotage. Though they are well-guarded, attacking a relatively few points here could cut off multiple basic utilities. Sanitation could be a big problem, for instance.

I'm a city-dweller (apartment) with a disabled son in a board and care home here. Moving to the country is not an option for me. It occured to me that us confirmed urbanites could learn a lot from the people who lived through the seiges of Sarajevo and Leningrad. What do you all think? Would anyone point me in the direction to read up on what they did to cope -- what worked and what didn't? I sure would be grateful for any direction.

Ingrid
Hallucinate Witty Signature Here


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#28219 - 06/10/04 07:07 AM Re: Urban Survival Question
NY RAT Offline
Enthusiast

Registered: 09/19/03
Posts: 256
Loc: brooklyn, ny
not sure if i can comment on those well enough to help.

but theres a book ive been looking into called "RAGNAR'S URBAN SURVIVAL: A HARD-TIMES GUIDE TO STAYING ALIVE IN THE CITY "

cant review the book yet, but it may help you.
_________________________
been gone so long im glad to be back

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#28220 - 06/10/04 02:14 PM Re: Urban Survival Question
paramedicpete Offline
Pooh-Bah

Registered: 04/09/02
Posts: 1920
Loc: Frederick, Maryland
Try some of the following resources:

http://www.fema.gov/rrr/assistf.shtm

http://www.fema.gov/oer/dodprtnr.shtm

http://www.fema.gov/rrr/displan.shtm

This site seems to have some of the best information including equipment:

http://www.nod.org/content.cfm?id=1267

Pete

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#28221 - 06/10/04 02:25 PM Re: Urban Survival Question
Anonymous
Unregistered


Hi Ingrid

As far as toiletries go, get a copy of brigade quartermaster, or check them out on line. They cover the subject pretty well (porta-potties ranging from 10 or 12$ up to about 100$ depending on how much convenience of use you want and deodorant alternatives you'll have to see to believe "The deodorant Stone" ). As far as electrical power goes, if you can't use a generator, you're probably out of luck. If you can use a generator, the sky's the limit. Last Christmas, My wife got me a Coleman 1500 watt generator that I didn't have a chance to try out untill this spring (weighs about 60 lbs, not too big to carry). When tornados hit Utica, my parents lost power, and I took it out to their place so they could keep their fridge/freezer/sump pump running. I was very pleasantly surprised at it's performance. It has a cam-action built into the pull-start so a six-year-old could start it, it ran continuously except for shut-downs to refuel it, and it put out enough juice to keep the bare neccessities running the entire time they were without power. For those with bigger budgets there are systems that can power up an entire household. Hope this helps, if you've got questions on any other areas, I'm sure someone here can point you in the right direction.

Troy

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#28222 - 06/10/04 03:52 PM Re: Urban Survival Question
bountyhunter Offline


Registered: 11/14/03
Posts: 1224
Loc: Milwaukee, WI USA
My personal belief is that sabotage on a large scale throughout the United States is highly unlikely. While large sections of individual states could be affected, with our communications systems, roads and people who are willing to drop everything and help, it is highly unlikely that aid would not be quickly forthcoming.

Some sort of personal toilet facilities with lots of water and basic stored food should last you even in an apartment setting.

For your son, check the facility he is in to see if they maintain backup supplies for short term interruptions. If they do not, arrange for the possibility of bringing him back to your apartment as bringing emergency supplies to him could result in you being forced to share whatever small provisions you have with others on site. Do not feel bad about not being able to share limited supplies to take care of yourself and your son.

Finally; and most importantly, keep your mouth shut about your preparedness, or you may find your supplies gone by the time you come back from picking up your son.

Good luck!

Bountyhunter

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#28223 - 06/10/04 05:23 PM Re: Urban Survival Question
Anonymous
Unregistered


Thank you all for the very good suggestions. As for Ragnor Benson's book, there apparently is some advice in it you should greet with caution. Here's a review of the book:
http://engineering-books-online.com/1581600593.html

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#28224 - 06/10/04 05:26 PM Re: Urban Survival Question
aardwolfe Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 08/22/01
Posts: 924
Loc: St. John's, Newfoundland
As far as the sieges of Leningrad and Stalingrad, I think the public library should have a wealth of material. But those were situations that I think are very unlikely to happen in the US today, so some of the lessons learned are not likely to apply to even a massive, prolonged power failure.

Britain, during the war, turned pretty much every scrap of arable land into a farm, for example. The Soviets in Leningrad strictly rationed what little food they could get. During the winter, truck drivers were able to cross the frozen lake in convoys with food supplies; they kept this up around the clock despite constant attacks from the Luftwaffe, well into the Spring thaw; many drivers drowned when their trucks broke through the ice, and by the time they were forced to halt the deliveries, all the driver's side doors on all the trucks had simply been removed to make it easier to escape if the truck started going under.

None of this is likely to be of much help for individual planning.

My sister gave me a book that was put together by the Halifax Chronicle-Herald newspaper following Hurricane Juan's passage through Nova Scotia. As far as "survival" goes, not much in it except some interesting anecdotes. Many people who owned gas generators realised that it wasn't necessary to keep the freezer going 24 hours a day, for example, and set up a rotating schedule, toting their generator from neighbour to neighbour and running it for four hours at a time. (A large generator would power three household freezers; with a couple of long extension cords, they were able to keep 9 freezers going (for 4 hours out of every 12).

I'm sure many other communities which have lived through similar disasters have produced similar books which you may be able to get by asking at the public library.
_________________________
"The mind is not a vessel to be filled but a fire to be kindled."
-Plutarch

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#28225 - 06/10/04 11:40 PM Re: Urban Survival Question
Vinosaur Offline
dedicated member

Registered: 03/25/04
Posts: 128
Loc: North Central IL
While portable power stations like the one you are describing are great, one needs to remember to plug the equipment directly into the generator to power up the equipment. Many utility workers are injured and even killed each year from people using home generators to supply power in emergency or even short power outages. Quite often people connect these devices directly into their homes electrical circuits in parallel with the outside power and when they are supplying power to the home with the generator; they are also feeding power up the lines to the main header. An electrical worker can come upon a line that is down, and should be dead. However, you may have inadvertently supplied power to the line and made it live. Ergo, dead electrical worker. Just something to think about. While I fully endorse the use of home generators, please make sure you have it wired into your home's electrical system by a licensed electrician.

Ok, down off soapbox
_________________________
If only closed minds came with closed mouths.

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#28226 - 06/11/04 06:12 AM Re: Urban Survival Question
Chris Kavanaugh Offline
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/09/01
Posts: 3824
Which part of our golden state do you live in? Sabotage, or, to be realistic the fear of terrorist attack is a part of our reality after 9/11. But we need to qualify that threat beyond colour coded conditions, Hollywood or profiteers feeding on fear with cracking gas masks and exotic compounds to protect thyroids from radiation while our teeth drop into MRE orange flavoured drink packets. The only documented successful terrorist sabotage against major services in California are the recently exposed energy companies . The dirty bomb by the alleged terrorist Padillo most likely would have failed according to scientific examination. Poisoning our water supply is equally nearly impossible, the shear volume insuring "pollution emiminated by dilution." Chemical attacks at best can kill only a few people.That leaves San Onofre sitting on one of our inumerable faultlines. If you have made rational preparations for natural calamities there really isn't much more one can do, short of descending down the one way path of fringe group paranoia or hatred of a vaque enemy. My gas station merchant, Mr Singhe, 4th generation California Sikhe went the other direction; a smile for everyone, free darjeeling tea and a emergency kit behind the counter assembled with your's truly's help. He opted for a SAK instead of a kukhri ( do I look nepalese, Chris? ) The best way to defeat these jokers is to continue being americans in all the magnanimous ideals projected by the late President Reagan. Thats how WE terrorise THEM

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#28227 - 06/11/04 10:14 PM Re: Urban Survival Question
Anonymous
Unregistered


Good point, I forgot to mention that if you're going to power up the whole house, isolate it from the incoming line, thanks.

Troy

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