Post deleted by Chris Kavanaugh

Post deleted by Chris Kavanaugh

You are right, of course, Jampot, and I do apologize. The sarcasm was an emotional response. Perhaps I should have waited a while and thought more about how, and, indeed, if, I wanted to respond to your post. Perhaps a more straightforward reply would have been appropriate. Perhaps my additional comments were completely unneccesary, given everyone else's. I don't know. It's just that it's not often someone completely disses and dismisses Doug the owner, Chris the admin and all the other fine and knowledgeable folks here by calling them weekend warrior wannabees. I'm quite fond of this forum and its users. I guess I got defensive for their sake. Silly, I know, but there it is. Like, I suspect, most everyone else here, I believe that the carrying of various redundant light sources is a Good Thing, and I could have, and perhaps should have, simply said so. I hope you won't hold it against me, and I will try to be less sarcastic in the future.

First of all, as others have commented earlier, there's nothing wrong with weekend warriars. In fact, this site is especially useful for us (yes, I am one), as it provides information that "professionals," such as yourself, don't know. That information may save my life someday. That alone is a worthy objective for any webmaster and Doug is to be commended for dedicating the time and energy to this task. He may never know if it does indeed save a live because the most likely scenario is folks who learn skills here may have learned how NOT to put themselves in life threatening situations.<br><br>Second, why are you trespassing? A landowner protecting his or her property is not an "Old World" way of thinking. It's a basic legal right.<br><br>I may be misreading your intent, or maybe I'm too "New World" to understand how things are done in Europe. But my experience has shown that if you approach private landowners politely and honestly, most are willing to accomodate campers and hikers. <br><br>Truthfully, if I were a farmer and noticed someone skulking about my property, purposely trying to evade me, I'd grab my shotgun expecting that he or she was up to no good. Be careful. You may end up pulling buckshot out of your behind.

So what are you doing on a regualr basis on other's land without their permission at night, in, from the tone of your words, a (semi-)professional capacity? <br><br>First rule of survival, don't do stupid stuff without a really good reason. I catch someone on my woods with a light, I ask them a few questions, unless they are armed- then I'll assume they are poaching. If I see or hear signs of someone on the property, and no light, I'm going to assume their purposes are les than socially acceptable and probably criminal. And take the steps I feel are needed. Even in Europe, I can't imagine that most people in rural areas wouldn't respond more negatively to someone without a light than one with.

Post deleted by Chris Kavanaugh

>>>...and I sure as hell aint gonna ask no avaricious farmer 10 miles down the road if I can put up camp in his woods. <br>... and if he dont like me I sure hope he has the balls just to spell it out. <<<<br><br>Whatever tickles your fancy. Jjust don't be too surprised if one of those farmers decides to shot first and "spell it out" later.

This may seem a bit "New World", but our concepts of property rights extend all the way from the Magna Carta of 1215. Whatever your aims, tresspassing is trespassing, and is still criminal. <br> <br> As I said before, one of the reasons we are all here is to learn to AVOID emergency situations. Criminal behavior is nearly certain to put you in one, sooner or later.<br><br> People who have bought land have usually worked long, hard, and smart to get it. It's theirs to do with, within reason, as they please. Usually, if you just ask, they'll let you camp for free, but if not, pay or move on. If you want permanent ability to play on some land, do what the owners have done and buy some.<br><br> Where I live (southern USA) is decidedly "New World" I suppose. You see if someone is found tresspassing, they are usually held at the wrong end of a 12 ga. until the authorities arrive. If they run, A couple of rounds over their heads encourages them not to return. And any gear left behind is forfeit.<br><br> If you choose to engage in criminal behavior, you therefore accept any consequences.<br><br> Now you must excuse me. My wife says we need to go to the store, and I just may count the number of horses under the hood of my gas guzzler.

OK, So let me read this back to you just to make sure I understand where you are comming from correctly.<br><br>1) landowners who have title to land that you wish to use are presumed to be avaricious and uncooperative and therefore are to be completely disrespected and their land rights violated without a second thought.<br><br>2) You don't own any current model gas powered vehicle getting less than 60 miles to the gallon because that would violate your pressious earth which you don't have any title over.<br><br>3) you have no admiration for the survivalists who are preparing to survive in a society wherein your own philosophy replaces the rule of common law and they can no-longer rely upon the authorities to guarantee their property rights and therfore need to resort to more drastic means to drive the lawless individuals off their land that they use to maintain their own life through the industrious work of husbanding the land?<br><br>Did I miss anything?

OUCH!!!! LOL