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#281651 - 08/09/16 02:34 PM Re: 10 mm for brown bear [Re: chaosmagnet]
ATN Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/14/14
Posts: 46
Originally Posted By: chaosmagnet
My training group has tested this out extensively (minus the undergrowth, the injury and the bear) and concluded that moving backwards with a handgun, even on a flat range without anything to trip on, is not a best practice. This isn't intended as a criticism of the hiker in the story; moving while shooting is an advanced skill that not many people train to do.


Since a lot of animals can outrun people, what would be the point in backing up from a charging animal at close range except to through your shots off? If you have a 10mm handgun and a bear charges you, you are probably better off standing your ground and firing until the bear is dead or you are. Trying to put a few extra feet between you and a charging bear, for example, isn't very helpful in itself. If a few extra feet leads you to a safer location, like inside, then that is another matter entirely. No matter how good a shot you are, you will always be more accurate being stationary than moving.

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#281653 - 08/09/16 03:54 PM Re: 10 mm for brown bear [Re: ATN]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
This thread really seems to focus on firearms as the defense against attacking bears, but there seems to be evidence that bear spray is actually more effective in preventing injury or death to the human, as well as Mr Bear.

http://www.centerforwildlifeinformation.org/BeBearAware/BearSpray/bearspray.html

This finding is not unique.
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#281655 - 08/09/16 04:03 PM Re: 10 mm for brown bear [Re: haertig]
M_a_x Offline
Veteran

Registered: 08/16/02
Posts: 1207
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: haertig
Compare the results for, say, .22 against .357mag. Both have a %fatal of 34%. So does that mean a .22 is as good as a .357mag? Well, if you look at the stat for "# of rounds until incapacitation", you'll see that the lowly .22 is even better than the .357mag (1.38 vs. 1.7).

That supports the theory of other factors having more influence fairly well. The only calibers with more than two rounds to incapacitation are typical semi auto calibers.

Originally Posted By: haertig
Even if it's a magic 10mm handgun.

I do not think people prefer it because itīs magic. Probably itīs only a little beyond most peopleīs abilities and offers enough capacity to have some ammo left, when the bear is close enough for canīt miss shots.
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If it isnīt broken, it doesnīt have enough features yet.

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#281657 - 08/10/16 03:18 AM Re: 10 mm for brown bear [Re: clearwater]
dougwalkabout Offline
Crazy Canuck
Carpal Tunnel

Registered: 02/03/07
Posts: 3240
Loc: Alberta, Canada
I think we've argued this before. wink

I carry bear spray, since that is the only reasonable option in my self-propelled adventures. Though there are other situations where I would consider a firearm.

From my point of view, a firearm carried for such a purpose should be capable of a clean kill. So, it should be appropriate in calibre and imparted energy, reasonably ensuring a rapid, humane end to the animal in question. I just don't see most pistol rounds being effective or humane in this context (though you use what you have, I guess). The hunting regulations in many areas spell out the minimum legal round for specific game, and to my mind that is a good place to start.

My 2c.

YMMV



Edited by dougwalkabout (08/10/16 03:26 AM)

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#281659 - 08/10/16 01:11 PM Re: 10 mm for brown bear [Re: dougwalkabout]
NAro Offline
Addict

Registered: 03/15/01
Posts: 518
Although I'm a bear spray over firearm guy (though I have many..), there is another issue with regard to the 10mm or any semi-auto if carried for protection in the (highly unlikely) event of bear attack: one handed operation.
Yep.... I know that many modern semi-auto pistols are reliable... rarely jam or FTF...etc. But JUST IN CASE... I don't think a weapon clearance drill with one hand while under a bear is an easy skill to practice.
So if it just has to be a handgun, for me it will be a revolver.

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#281660 - 08/10/16 02:04 PM Re: 10 mm for brown bear [Re: NAro]
ATN Offline
Newbie

Registered: 10/14/14
Posts: 46
Originally Posted By: NAro
Although I'm a bear spray over firearm guy (though I have many..), there is another issue with regard to the 10mm or any semi-auto if carried for protection in the (highly unlikely) event of bear attack: one handed operation.
Yep.... I know that many modern semi-auto pistols are reliable... rarely jam or FTF...etc. But JUST IN CASE... I don't think a weapon clearance drill with one hand while under a bear is an easy skill to practice.
So if it just has to be a handgun, for me it will be a revolver.



While jams or misfires are always a possibility with a gun, the semi-auto handgun may also malfunction if it is in contact with the target. If Mr. Grizz is on top of you and starting to munch on you, there is the distinct possibility of a semi-auto being knocked out of battery or failing to feed properly if pressing against Mr. Grizz. Besides, it is unlikely that most people will have the time to effectively fire off 15 rounds or more from a semi-auto handgun at a fast moving target like Mr. Grizz. I wouldn't expect to get off more than a couple of shots before Mr. Grizz starts his buffet smile I agree regarding a revolver being a better choice.

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#281661 - 08/10/16 02:26 PM Re: 10 mm for brown bear [Re: ATN]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
This seems to sum it up pretty well (last sentence in abstract of article that began this thread) - "Our findings suggest that only those proficient in firearms use should rely on them for protection in
bear country."

My weapon would be a revolver - because that is what I have
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#281696 - 08/15/16 01:16 AM Re: 10 mm for brown bear [Re: clearwater]
MoBOB Offline
Veteran

Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 1219
Loc: here
As the heartless cynic would think: Shoot the other guy in the knee. You only have to be faster than one person. The caliber is irrelevant.

or

I agree with the implied view of the last statement in the abstract - we are really not sure if this study means anything.
_________________________
"Its not a matter of being ready as it is being prepared" -- B. E. J. Taylor

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#281855 - 08/26/16 07:07 PM Re: 10 mm for brown bear [Re: clearwater]
clearwater Offline
Old Hand

Registered: 03/19/05
Posts: 1185
Loc: Channeled Scablands
More about the incident.

"Kim said that he’d learned lessons from the recent bear shooting. He’s going to buy a holster or two. He’s going to practice not backing up, and shooting rapidly."

and his other bear attack incident.

"I stuck the barrel up against its neck, and the 250 grain .338 did not make it out the other side of its neck."

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2016/08...-graphic-video/

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#281857 - 08/26/16 07:17 PM Re: 10 mm for brown bear [Re: MoBOB]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1580
Originally Posted By: MoBOB
As the heartless cynic would think: Shoot the other guy in the knee. You only have to be faster than one person. The caliber is irrelevant.


If a bear is chasing two people and one person falls down (for whatever reason), would the bear always go after the downed person? It occurs to me that I can't think of a reason that the bear wouldn't continue chasing the moving, and thus more visible target. But then again I don't know bear behavior at all. Can the more informed help me out?

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