Hi,<br><br>I wonder if some of you have experienced the same problems with Photon III lights as I've been having lately?<br><br>I traded an covert Photon II in green and it worked perfectly and still does for months now but I gave it as a present to a colleague who left our company.<br><br>I traded 8 Photon III's to be used as presents for our Scouting leaders (beaver, cub, scout and explorer leaders) and of the 2 that I started using (one red and one white) both have lost some/most of the microcomputer controlled modes only being capable to do full and ... make your choice... mostly half power or one flashing mode.<br><br>I read about resetting the chip by taking the batteries out for some time and that works most times for a limited time because within a couple of hours you lose some modes again.<br>It will keep the mode you set it to when it worked and off course also the full power mode (front part of switch) but I'm thinking that I have had bad luck with these # 3's and that I should have stayed with the Photon II's.<br><br>I like the way one can now chage the batteries as this has become much easier to do without the need for a miniature philips screwdriver, this makes it more survival proof in my opinion, if only the microchip worked as it was supposed to do.<br><br>Best Scouting wishes from Holland,<br><br>Bagheera<br>

Have you asked Photon to replace them under warrantly?

To many functions in a small container = Bad survival/emergency equipment. :0)<br>I love my Photon I water resistant covert red and my Photon II white. <br>

Hi Dog,<br><br>Brian from Photonlight (L.R.I.'s)has on the forum on their website offered to everybody to return the Photon III's which show these symptoms.<br>I'm a 110% Photon lover having at least each from Photon I through III and I love them, still I'm interested in how many people have these misbehaving III's as I can't believe that I'm the only one who has this experience.<br>The P III, is easy to change it's batteries which is an +++ in survival situations (as long as you carry a few spares) but it has to be relied upon to function even after having been powered up for some time.<br><br>Doug, I'm returning the maffunctioning ones no problem but it's a real pain in the .ss as it will mean that I won't see them back this year and they were supposed to be stocking stuffers at scouting.<br>Priority Airmail from Holland to the US is at an alltime low with padded envelopes taking up to 31 days to arrive which normally takes 6-8 days, combine that with the holidays coming that means seeing the hopefully functioning P III's back end of January.<br><br>Best scouting wishes from Holland,<br><br>Bagheera

Under the circumstances, IMHO, and you are free to quote me, they should not require you to return the items before sending you free replacements. At the worst, and even this would be pretty CS given the amount involved, they should allow you the option of charging you for the replacement and then credit when they get the old ones back. As I said, still CS under the circumstances, but at least it offers a viable solution. They are obviously defective and are so by their own admission. It's the holiday season and these were bought as gifts. They should be happy that they have only inconvenienced, and potentially pissed off, one person instead of all the people for whom you bought them. They should be falling all over themselves to make this right. 3. You should not have to pay for return shipping for items that were essentially defective virtually out of the box, as I understand the situation. <br><br>That's my take on it and the position I would take if it were me. I will be interested in hearing how this works out and also if you find it is a bigger problem than yourself, which I would be surprised if it wasn't. This sort of feedback is invaluable wheh I assess the customer service and reliability of manufacturers and vendors.

I recentlly purchased two of the photon 3's. One has so far worked perfectly, but the other one did the same thing. The different modes quit working, then it got to the point that it wouldn't shut off. You had to take the batteries out to shut it off, but it didn't change anything. Turn it back on and wouldn't shut off again.<br>I havent tried talking to L.R.I yet, but they have a lifetime warrenty on them.

I recently purchase 3 of the Photon III's from 1sks.com. Two of them worked flawlessly, and continue to. The third, as soon as I removed the internal plastic tab, stayed on continuously. 1sks paid for the return shipping and sent me a new one immediately which has worked since then. I have had these for about 3 months.

I was at REI trying to get a brand new Photon III to work. Neither I, nor two store associates, were able to get it to work properly.

Post deleted by Chris Kavanaugh

Duuuude.....<br><br>No offense, but that's paranoid, even to me. Flashlights are a lot more effective than stumbling about in the dark. I have never found a distributor for "beta lights" in the States, but as far as I can figure out, all it is is a tritium chip, right? For one, I wouldn't want to have to rely on the tritium inserts in my various pistols for illumination, nor the chips in my watch. <br><br>If I know there is a hostile out there, I proabably won't use the light. But if you assume that someone is always about to make an attempt on your life, you just failed to live. Survive, yes, but there is more to it than moving air in and out.

jampot,<br> Please read http://www.equipped.org/pop_up_survivalist_def.htm. Most of the folks on this forum would be more concerned about using the torch / flashlight / signaling mirror to attract attention and therby rescue than suppressing all light thereby avoiding detection lest the maurading hords of post apocalyptic crazies. <br><br>Your suggestion about beta lights is right on. They are very useful, last about forever, and are very small. They don't give off much usable light except as a lure but they are great for fending off the fear and darkness for small children. I would definately recommend them as a replacement for Chemical light sticks in a kids psk as long as I also include a torch to keep them from breaking their legs when walking about in the dark.

Post deleted by Chris Kavanaugh

Post deleted by Chris Kavanaugh

I may have mis-interpreted your post. The wilderness survival aspect of this forum seems to be focused on surviving until rescue from unexpected situations which leave one stranded in a wilderness situation. Whether you have found yourself in that situation due to being a weekend warrior or because you live in a wilderness situation is largely irrelevant. The survival issue becomes a problem when you are unexpectedly prevented from returning to your normal - presummed safe - mode of daily life. This is what we are becomming equipped to survive. This is much more focussed on temporary survival until rescue than on permanent "The society has collapsed" survival. If your "presummed safe" daily life is that of a homesteader in the north-eastern reaches of alaska then I'd expect that you would be starting from a much more prepared beginning than the weekend warrior. Nonetheless there may be times when the snow-mobile breaks down 40-50 miles from your cabin and you are suddenly thrust into a survival situation. If you wish to learn better how to be equipped and prepared for this sort of survival you are on the right forum. <br><br>I don't think that this forum is intended as a discussion on how to survive in an escape and evasion situation involving hostiles of any sort. <br><br>Carnivorours game is often fended off by light not attracted. Especially bright fire which would certainly attract more attention than a flashlight.<br><br><br>Perhaps a comment from Doug or Chris will clear this up.

I couldn't disagree more. Equipped To Survive is designed to aid those of us who wish to survive everyday emergencies. Planes crash and ditch; earthquakes, hurricanes, floods happen, people have backwoods situations requiring rescue, cars crash into water and break down in the middle of the desert. Nations only rarely collapse and advanced ones far almost never. We here are therefore, logically focused on the former.<br><br> We look at three areas:<br>1) Avoid getting into an emergency<br>2) If 1) fails, get help as soon as possible, and <br>3) survive until help arrives.<br><br> A good light will help this effort by:<br>1) illuminating potential hazards, allowing them to be avoided. Things that might break an ankle when alone in the woods at night, seeing in dark areas in town. Do you drive your car at night without headlights?<br>2) Signalling rescuers your location at night, speeding assistance, and <br>3) avoiding further trouble once in an emergency, providing light to perform first aid and other survival tasks.<br><br> A good light is invaluable. I carry a Photon because it is light and small, therefore will be constantly carried, and will always be available. I use mine frequently. If I could conveniently carry a movie searchlight, I'd do that too.<br><br> As far as "giving myself away", should that extremely miniscule possibility occur, all I have to do is not use the light. By having it, I have more options than someone who does not have a light. <br><br> And that's what we are about here, keeping as many options available as possible.<br>

Not sure what type of forum that you may be seeking, but preparedness is for anybody at anytime. E&E may be a factor that you consider, but the majority of the posts on this forum are everyday people being prepared for everyday life. Someone could walk into my office right now and say "Hey, let's go take a look at some land I want to sell"....we hop in a vehicle, perhaps end up off of the beaten path and then....(fill in the blank)... Those are the times that I, as well as many on this board, prepare for. I do not live in an urban area, but, ask anyone on this board who works in a high rise what he or she may consider an immediate threat....and I am sure that you will hear from nearly all of them stating that they have some type of light to help them navigate a potentially dark stairwell. There are a many great ideas from many sources on this forum, take what you can that applies to you. Not everything that I have read works for me, but if it doesn't, I keep my thoughts...and posts...in check and disregard them rather than firing back a flippant remark.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I was under the impression this was a survival forum for people who anticipate the wilderness experience as an ongoing endeavour, and not merely a haunt for corporate executives who like to do daredevil things at the weekend.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Hey Jampot,<br><br>No need to be rude, Dude. You made an honest mistake. No one here will hold it against you. (Although, you might seriously consider following up on mebrad's advice to go check out http://www.equipped.org/pop_up_survivalist_def.htm. It's pretty good advice; it'll help you stop yourself from making similar mistakes in the future. )<br><br>It's pretty obvious you were looking for the Escape & Evasion forum, and must have gotten us confused with them. Not entirely sure where that forum is, but you might want to start looking for it by doing a web search for "escape evasion forum". <br><br>Meanwhile, in belated response to your post about not wanting to, as you so accurately put it, "give your position away"; I know it'll seem really strange to you, but we here on this forum actually like the idea of giving our positions away. No, really! The truth is, we even carry gear for that purpose. Yes, I know, it's wacky. But it's true; and not just flashlights, either. Why, we carry mirrors, dye, streamers, flagging tape, flares, smoke ... we've even discussed new handheld lasers that are designed for no other purpose than giving one's position away. We're darned eccentric about it. <br><br>Hey, I know! If the above web search keywords don't give you any good leads for finding the forum which you mistook us for, you might try doing another web search for "forum for people who don't want to give their positions away".

Keep it simple. :0)

Hey Jet, you took that class too? Sarcasm 101. :0) Good post.

Pray tell why? Your logic, outside of the tactical sense, eludes me completely. And IF you need to practice E&E skills, you can turn the silly thing off. BTW, if you need to E&E for a legal and legitimate reason, so not something like escaping from jail, a simple flashlight is a good way to get found by the people you are E&Eing towards. (Trust me, grewing up in my family, you learn more feildcraft (tactical and regular), SAR/CSAR, and small unit/covert crap than you can shake a stick at, the same way the son of a carpenter learns to hammer nails, so I have *some* clue.)<br><br>I'm not an executive, and for me, the outdoors is not a weekend "daredevil" thing. Under good conditions, by car, it's about 20 minutes to my nearest neighbor, all woods, marsh and big hill/little mountain, and about as far past that to "town". I do know, from extensive (as in thousands of hours) experince, that while you can move at night by stars and moon (and often do), a flashlight makes many things easier, safer, or just plain possible. <br><br>So tell us, who might you have to E&E from? Or is that "classified"?

Post deleted by Chris Kavanaugh

Post deleted by Chris Kavanaugh

You are right, of course, Jampot, and I do apologize. The sarcasm was an emotional response. Perhaps I should have waited a while and thought more about how, and, indeed, if, I wanted to respond to your post. Perhaps a more straightforward reply would have been appropriate. Perhaps my additional comments were completely unneccesary, given everyone else's. I don't know. It's just that it's not often someone completely disses and dismisses Doug the owner, Chris the admin and all the other fine and knowledgeable folks here by calling them weekend warrior wannabees. I'm quite fond of this forum and its users. I guess I got defensive for their sake. Silly, I know, but there it is. Like, I suspect, most everyone else here, I believe that the carrying of various redundant light sources is a Good Thing, and I could have, and perhaps should have, simply said so. I hope you won't hold it against me, and I will try to be less sarcastic in the future.

First of all, as others have commented earlier, there's nothing wrong with weekend warriars. In fact, this site is especially useful for us (yes, I am one), as it provides information that "professionals," such as yourself, don't know. That information may save my life someday. That alone is a worthy objective for any webmaster and Doug is to be commended for dedicating the time and energy to this task. He may never know if it does indeed save a live because the most likely scenario is folks who learn skills here may have learned how NOT to put themselves in life threatening situations.<br><br>Second, why are you trespassing? A landowner protecting his or her property is not an "Old World" way of thinking. It's a basic legal right.<br><br>I may be misreading your intent, or maybe I'm too "New World" to understand how things are done in Europe. But my experience has shown that if you approach private landowners politely and honestly, most are willing to accomodate campers and hikers. <br><br>Truthfully, if I were a farmer and noticed someone skulking about my property, purposely trying to evade me, I'd grab my shotgun expecting that he or she was up to no good. Be careful. You may end up pulling buckshot out of your behind.

So what are you doing on a regualr basis on other's land without their permission at night, in, from the tone of your words, a (semi-)professional capacity? <br><br>First rule of survival, don't do stupid stuff without a really good reason. I catch someone on my woods with a light, I ask them a few questions, unless they are armed- then I'll assume they are poaching. If I see or hear signs of someone on the property, and no light, I'm going to assume their purposes are les than socially acceptable and probably criminal. And take the steps I feel are needed. Even in Europe, I can't imagine that most people in rural areas wouldn't respond more negatively to someone without a light than one with.

Post deleted by Chris Kavanaugh

>>>...and I sure as hell aint gonna ask no avaricious farmer 10 miles down the road if I can put up camp in his woods. <br>... and if he dont like me I sure hope he has the balls just to spell it out. <<<<br><br>Whatever tickles your fancy. Jjust don't be too surprised if one of those farmers decides to shot first and "spell it out" later.

This may seem a bit "New World", but our concepts of property rights extend all the way from the Magna Carta of 1215. Whatever your aims, tresspassing is trespassing, and is still criminal. <br> <br> As I said before, one of the reasons we are all here is to learn to AVOID emergency situations. Criminal behavior is nearly certain to put you in one, sooner or later.<br><br> People who have bought land have usually worked long, hard, and smart to get it. It's theirs to do with, within reason, as they please. Usually, if you just ask, they'll let you camp for free, but if not, pay or move on. If you want permanent ability to play on some land, do what the owners have done and buy some.<br><br> Where I live (southern USA) is decidedly "New World" I suppose. You see if someone is found tresspassing, they are usually held at the wrong end of a 12 ga. until the authorities arrive. If they run, A couple of rounds over their heads encourages them not to return. And any gear left behind is forfeit.<br><br> If you choose to engage in criminal behavior, you therefore accept any consequences.<br><br> Now you must excuse me. My wife says we need to go to the store, and I just may count the number of horses under the hood of my gas guzzler.

OK, So let me read this back to you just to make sure I understand where you are comming from correctly.<br><br>1) landowners who have title to land that you wish to use are presumed to be avaricious and uncooperative and therefore are to be completely disrespected and their land rights violated without a second thought.<br><br>2) You don't own any current model gas powered vehicle getting less than 60 miles to the gallon because that would violate your pressious earth which you don't have any title over.<br><br>3) you have no admiration for the survivalists who are preparing to survive in a society wherein your own philosophy replaces the rule of common law and they can no-longer rely upon the authorities to guarantee their property rights and therfore need to resort to more drastic means to drive the lawless individuals off their land that they use to maintain their own life through the industrious work of husbanding the land?<br><br>Did I miss anything?

OUCH!!!! LOL

<sigh> I thought this should move to the Campfire Forum...<br><br>I suspect a cultural miscommunication is fanning these flames. Jampot, exactly WHICH country are you practicing your bushcraft in? If it's where I think, there are some concepts and practices which are not familiar to us North Americans.<br><br>Setting that aside, are you aware that some of the sentiments and opinions you've posted are insulting (and worse) to many of us? I'm guessing some miscommunication is running both directions, colloquial language notwithstanding...<br><br>Let's take a time-out on this, folks, please! Lessee, now, where'd I put that fire extinguisher...<br><br>Regards,<br><br>Scouter Tom

Post deleted by Chris Kavanaugh

"I don't give two sh*ts for the land claims people make..."<br>"I simply don't acknowledge the idea of ownership of..." <br>"...the only rights, in my book..."<br>"I don't recognise the claim..." <br><br>"I guess nothing I would say would make any difference to you anyway." Now THIS statement I agree with.<br><br>Where is that campfire tom??? <br><br>

Man has already gone to far. The environment has been altered to a point that it can no longer be returned to its true prestine and natural state. We struggle daily with the problems of starving herds of deer and elk because man has consumed their natural habitat and forced them into ever smaller ranges incapable of supporting their numbers.<br><br>Native American peoples (as well as natives of many other lands) believe no man can own a piece of the earth (property) and that all men a charged with taking care of the earth and its resources. I see the tenants of your beliefs in these ideals. They are noble and I fault you not. Deep down I think all men yearn for things to be the way you see them and believe they should be, whether they will admit it or not. <br><br>I believe eack person should live and conduct their life as their heart leads them. The errors we commit will be corrected by nature one day. We will hate the taste of the medicine but the cure will be world just as spectacularas it once was.

OK, this has moved way beyond any discussion of survival skills or equipment into the realm of politics which is not appropriate for Survival Forum discussion. I have moved this thread to Around The Campfire in hopes that it can be salvaged, but if the flames heat up and discussion continues in this vein, I’ll be forced to shut it down and exclude the parties violating our forum rules.