Equipped To Survive Equipped To Survive® Presents
The Survival Forum
Where do you want to go on ETS?

Page 6 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6
Topic Options
#280972 - 06/03/16 10:44 PM Re: analysis of mistakes of hiker missing 27 days [Re: AKSAR]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
I certainly hope you are incorrect in your assessment of the contemporary spirit of volunteerism today, I would not bet the farm against that proposition. I harken back over thirty years - my involvement as a SAR volunteer ended in 1985. Although I spent the next fifteen years on the staff of Channel Islands National Park, we really did not have that many operations, and their conduct was not my prime responsibility.

I do know that back in the day, we could keep volunteers in the field for two weeks and longer. Many of us had schedules that offered a certain amount of flexibility. I, for instance, found an obscure section in the Department of Interior Manual that offered forty hours of administrative leave per annum for activities like volunteer SAR. Management came to support this, since there were obvious and recognized benefits to the community. Many others of my comrades worked out similar arrangements. Of course there were times, when I was undertaking field projects, when I was out of town and totally unavailable.

At the time I was active the organization (Southern Arizona Rescue Association) had an active membership of 100 or so We routinely could gather 20 or more at a moment's notice and even more with advance notice. When I last visited Tucson, SARA was prospering and even more competent than in my day - I was quite impressed by what I witnessed.

As an aside, it wasn't always that way. In the beginning, SARA couldn't pour (censored body fluid) out of a boot if there was a hole in the toe, and instructions on the heel. Operations got a lot better over the years.

Certainly, it would be a rash public official who would mention cost as a factor, but I am speaking of strategy sessions where we were all expressing our opinions frankly. When an operation was scaled back, it was more out of a sense that we had exhausted all our options, we were well past the point where the victim might have survived, and that indeed going over the ground again would be a squandering of resources.

Our situation was also fortunate in that helicopters were readily available from 1)Arizona Department of Public Safety and/or 2) the Air Force with their wonderful assortment of Hueys and gung-ho, Vietnam tested pilots. They did some wonderful stuff all under the guise of "training."

I am convinced that volunteer SAR is a bargain for the taxpayer and is cost effective. Furthermore, it think a healthy community will support volunteerism and not leave matters like SAR up to the "authorities." Grass roots involvement of the citizenry is a very good thing.

Personally, I can now look back on a fairly active life in which I can honestly say I have achieved a thing or two. I am proudest of, and received the most internal satisfaction from, SAR volunteerism, unquestionably. Many of the really strong friendships I have developed over the years were with fellow volunteers, based on situations where we really trusted each other to perform capably.

I am sure not every community has a significant population from which to draw volunteers, and won't necessarily have military resources handy. But when you have a situation like that, SAR is a good deal, especially for a successfully retrieved victim.

Perhaps you can tell that this is a subject near and dear to me. Enough for now.
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

Top
#280974 - 06/04/16 08:41 AM Re: analysis of mistakes of hiker missing 27 days [Re: WesleyH]
Bingley Offline
Veteran

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1580
My impression of SAR folks here in the midwest has been positive. While association with them wasn't that long -- I got some training for SARTECH, but didn't end up joining them -- it's really hard to imagine the people I met to be anything like what haertig is talking about. They cared about pulling people out of danger, and they had a sense of realism about them (i.e., they were very far from Rambo, and they discouraged any would-be Rambo from joining them). They weren't out to make friends -- which made sense since I (and other people) were taking a class.

With many self-selected group endeavors, you often end up with people who are similar to you. It's hard to work together otherwise. So it's not a bad thing if you discover that you can't join a club because they don't like you and you don't like them.

Top
#280975 - 06/04/16 02:03 PM Re: analysis of mistakes of hiker missing 27 days [Re: Bingley]
hikermor Offline
Geezer in Chief
Geezer

Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
Haertig is right - some groups are inclusive and some are exclusive. I suspect the inclusive groups enjoy the best success. If Haertig had tried his luck in Tucson, I think he would have had a more satisfactory experience.

I learned through our operations that not everyone had to be a gung-ho, super athletic climber superman type. We had lots of people who were quite other wise who contributed significantly and effectively.

At the time I was active, my employer was sending many of us to "management training" where we were exposed to some very good principles and practices. it was odd to see most of these concepts work effectively in our SAR organization, where no one had ever been to 'management awareness training", in contrast to the work place, where all that stuff was "file and forget."
_________________________
Geezer in Chief

Top
#280977 - 06/04/16 04:18 PM Re: analysis of mistakes of hiker missing 27 days [Re: WesleyH]
gonewiththewind Offline
Veteran

Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
The intensity of the SAR unit, and the immediacy of the need to do things well and learn as an organization, means that such organizations tend to develop such skills naturally.

Top
#281002 - 06/07/16 06:23 AM Re: analysis of mistakes of hiker missing 27 days [Re: WesleyH]
WesleyH Offline
Member

Registered: 05/26/16
Posts: 101
Loc: Unknown
Two last questions haunt me at this point. .

Granted, her cell phone had no signal, but did anyone check to see where her last Pings were? If you look at a topo map of where she was found, it is a very hilly area. I could understand how one moment she had service, the next zip. IIRC even in 2012 some location was possible via triangulation. But. . where was her last ping?

Also, given the steep contour, I wonder if perhaps she did not work her way down hill to a point where she could not get back to the elevation of the trail.

I went back to look at the report, but at 01:20CST the website is off line. .

Does anyone remember if a whistle was among the things recovered with her? A good whistle would have likely carried to the trail. . If she had one, blowing it even hourly would have likely brought help . . . .

Lastly, it seems apparent that she did not mark her way back to the trail with surveyors tape or even an occasional blaze on the tree. ..

This situation was SO survivable. . If for a few simple skills.
_________________________
WesleyH

Top
#281558 - 07/31/16 06:09 PM Re: analysis of mistakes of hiker missing 27 days [Re: WesleyH]
WesleyH Offline
Member

Registered: 05/26/16
Posts: 101
Loc: Unknown
Just noticed today, there is a show called North Woods Law. Saw an episode that featured the search and ended without her having been found. It is an interesting more behind the scenes look at what happened and how the search proceeded.


North Woods Law: Lost & Found
Season 3 Episode 9 Original air date 5 Dec 13 (Animal Planet)

It should be available on demand if you have cable.
_________________________
WesleyH

Top
Page 6 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6



Moderator:  Alan_Romania, Blast, cliff, Hikin_Jim 
November
Su M Tu W Th F Sa
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
Who's Online
0 registered (), 599 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Aaron_Guinn, israfaceVity, Explorer9, GallenR, Jeebo
5370 Registered Users
Newest Posts
Leather Work Gloves
by M_a_x
11/13/24 09:56 AM
Satellite texting via iPhone, 911 via Pixel
by Ren
11/05/24 03:30 PM
Emergency Toilets for Obese People
by adam2
11/04/24 06:59 PM
For your Halloween enjoyment
by brandtb
10/31/24 01:29 PM
Chronic Wasting Disease, How are people dealing?
by clearwater
10/30/24 05:41 PM
Things I Have Learned About Generators
by roberttheiii
10/29/24 07:32 PM
Gift ideas for a fire station?
by brandtb
10/27/24 12:35 AM
The price of gold
by dougwalkabout
10/20/24 11:51 PM
Newest Images
Tiny knife / wrench
Handmade knives
2"x2" Glass Signal Mirror, Retroreflective Mesh
Trade School Tool Kit
My Pocket Kit
Glossary
Test

WARNING & DISCLAIMER: SELECT AND USE OUTDOORS AND SURVIVAL EQUIPMENT, SUPPLIES AND TECHNIQUES AT YOUR OWN RISK. Information posted on this forum is not reviewed for accuracy and may not be reliable, use at your own risk. Please review the full WARNING & DISCLAIMER about information on this site.