#280305 - 04/13/16 05:44 PM
Gary Larson's cartoon once again.....
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/loca...-days/82942632/Still another rescue involving "help" (more or less) spelled out as a distress signal. Lots of different angles to this tale.....
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#280310 - 04/13/16 07:03 PM
Re: Gary Larson's cartoon once again.....
[Re: Bingley]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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I can't but help think that a signal mirror would have been even better = far more range and difficult to disregard.
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#280312 - 04/13/16 07:40 PM
Re: Gary Larson's cartoon once again.....
[Re: hikermor]
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Old Hand
Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
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Speaking of signaling SAR aircraft... How common do you think it is that the pilot can read the International Ground-Air signals, understand Morse code, or understand the significance of three (three signal fires, three signal flashes, etc)? FM 31-70, appendix B, figure B-1
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#280316 - 04/13/16 08:38 PM
Re: Gary Larson's cartoon once again.....
[Re: Russ]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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Darwin at work. Only those who can spell will survive. Add a dictionary to your critical survival gear....
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#280322 - 04/14/16 12:35 AM
Re: Gary Larson's cartoon once again.....
[Re: hikermor]
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Pooh-Bah
Registered: 01/28/01
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#280323 - 04/14/16 12:55 AM
Re: Gary Larson's cartoon once again.....
[Re: Doug_Ritter]
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Geezer
Registered: 06/02/06
Posts: 5357
Loc: SOCAL
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Interesting interview from the rescuee (Ann Rodgers) re signalling. The planes flying around didn't see the flashes from her mirror or the signal fire, but they saw her "HELP" sign. Okay, but that makes no sense...
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#280324 - 04/14/16 01:05 AM
Re: Gary Larson's cartoon once again.....
[Re: Russ]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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I think the oddest part of the story is getting off the I-10 between Tucson and Phoenix. Some of the intersections in Phoenix could be confusing, but one would realize they weren't in Phoenix anymore long before they reached the White Mountain Reservation.
Glad she is OK, but this certainly illustrates the value of staying with your vehicle.
Edited by hikermor (04/14/16 01:55 AM)
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#280328 - 04/14/16 06:37 AM
Re: Gary Larson's cartoon once again.....
[Re: Mark_R]
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Veteran
Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 1580
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FM 31-70, appendix B, figure B-1 Is there an image with a better resolution? I can't make out the caption. Is there a symbol for "drop off some beer"?
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#280330 - 04/14/16 11:05 AM
Re: Gary Larson's cartoon once again.....
[Re: Herman30]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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To answer Mark R's query - these signals are shown in most publications dealing with SAR and I imagine SAR pilots, and most pilots with professional experience, would at least realize that something noteworthy is happening down there. Amateur pilots, perhaps not so much. The signal of threes, whether fire, whistle blasts, or whatever is more commonly known, although your average hiker is probably unaware. At least you are making noise and someone will investigate..
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#280331 - 04/14/16 12:52 PM
Re: Gary Larson's cartoon once again.....
[Re: hikermor]
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Old Hand
Registered: 08/10/06
Posts: 882
Loc: Colorado
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SAR pilots might at least have reference material with them to decode the ground messages.
FAA pilot training does not include learning about SAR ground signals so the person flying the small airplane down low near the person in need of rescue is not required to know the signals. Chances are that in Alaska many pilots have a reference card but in the lower 48 - not likely.
The signals table is a good idea for those trained and proficient. But much like Morse code, it's only useful if both sides are trained and proficient. Nowadays US navaids don't always use Morse identifiers because Morse is now obscure. Even for ham radio operators Morse is now not required learning.
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#280337 - 04/14/16 07:52 PM
Re: Gary Larson's cartoon once again.....
[Re: hikermor]
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Veteran
Registered: 10/14/08
Posts: 1517
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The other signals are easier to construct, but an SOS would be recognized.
The Boy Scout Wilderness Survival merit badge pamphlet includes some of those same signals as the SAR manuals. It is one of the requirements for them to construct them.
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#280342 - 04/15/16 09:46 PM
Re: Gary Larson's cartoon once again.....
[Re: gonewiththewind]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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In my experience (which is by now a trifle dated), most people in trouble in the wild do not construct any signal -still a good idea, however.
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#280369 - 04/18/16 06:51 PM
Re: Gary Larson's cartoon once again.....
[Re: unimogbert]
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Veteran
Registered: 08/31/11
Posts: 1233
Loc: Alaska
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FAA pilot training does not include learning about SAR ground signals so the person flying the small airplane down low near the person in need of rescue is not required to know the signals. Chances are that in Alaska many pilots have a reference card but in the lower 48 - not likely. I had a chat with a highly experienced pilot friend of mine. This guy has well over 4000 hours, mostly bush flying in Alaska, winter and summer. He said neither he, nor any other pilot he knows, is really all that familiar with the ground signals. He said he's seen the card somewhere or another, but doesn't really remember them, nor does he keep a card in his plane. He pointed out that unless a pilot is flying in an organized search, he really isn't looking at the ground much, rather he is looking around for other aircraft. He also pointed out that a mirror flash, unless it is flashing in some recognizable pattern, might not be so good. A single flash is too easy for the pilot to think it is just the sun reflecting off of a puddle or something. And in Alaska, one can't count on having sunny days. He also said that smoke and fire, the bigger the better, is probably the best way to get attention. He said that if you are going to spell something out on the ground, plain old "SOS" is probably best. It might be best to combine these. A smoke plume to catch the pilot's eye, and a big "SOS" to indicate you need help.
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#280375 - 04/18/16 08:18 PM
Re: Gary Larson's cartoon once again.....
[Re: hikermor]
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Old Hand
Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
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On a tangent to the original posting... The incident has piqued interest in wilderness survival courses. http://www.cbs5az.com/story/31731548/crash-course-in-survivalAnd, no I don't think the Zombie Squad logo is going to help. However, a big, orange, tarp with S.O.S. or HELP emblazoned on it should stand out like lipstick on the Michelangelo's Madonna of Bruges.
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Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane
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#280382 - 04/18/16 09:53 PM
Re: Gary Larson's cartoon once again.....
[Re: Mark_R]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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I would say it has prompted an individual "who knows a thing or two about survival" to toot his organization's horn. Somehow I suspect that outfit's philosophy might not align with that of ETS as shown by the following quote from the referenced website:
" With a well-educated and armed populace, any individual, group or country intending to do us harm will be met with great resistance. "
Plenty of us "know a thing or two about survival;" some of us might even know up to five or six things about survival. I will say that what I do know about survival did not come from my time in the military. I was surprised at the almost total neglect of that subject during my time fighting off our enemies....
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#280391 - 04/19/16 02:07 AM
Re: Gary Larson's cartoon once again.....
[Re: hikermor]
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Old Hand
Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 863
Loc: Southern California
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' " With a well-educated and armed populace, any individual, group or country intending to do us harm will be met with great resistance. Sorry , I should have checked to make sure that they were a legitimate outdoor survival skills course, and not a 3%er group.
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Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.
The object in life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the insane
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#280412 - 04/19/16 07:18 PM
Re: Gary Larson's cartoon once again.....
[Re: Mark_R]
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Geezer in Chief
Geezer
Registered: 08/26/06
Posts: 7705
Loc: southern Cal
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Given that his military experience is highlighted, it isn't too surprising that his course goes toward the battlefield survival end of the spectrum, which seems very popular now. I am more interested in "civilian survival," the situations that develop when your plane crashes, your boat sinks, your vehicle doesn't run, your feet won't work anymore, etc. Here there should be very little escape and evasion, and a lot of effort on being found.
As a participant in many SAR operations, I can say that most people would have been found a lot sooner, and some would have even lived, if they had even a slight grasp on survival principles.
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